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U.S. warship docks in Black Sea port with Georgia aid

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posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar
 


I don't think they will.

Clues from the Neocon-authored Rebuilding America's Defenses?

Four Core Missions for the U.S. Military:


• Defend the American homeland;
• Fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars;
• Perform the 'constabulary' duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions;
• Transform U.S. forces to exploit the 'Revolution in Military Affairs.'

(PNAC)



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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anyway The US wont try anything in the black sea - its suicide for any fleet in there for them;

why?

the Russian 4th Air Army is based within 100 km`s of the place - the headquaters is Rostov on Don on the Sea of Azov (the body of water north of the black sea) but the primary air base , home to 5 fighter and bomber squadrons is at Krasnador - which is about 100 km from the black sea ; they field a mixture of SU-24`s , SU-27 , MiG-29 and SU-25

so i hear you cry - we have hundreds of cruise missiles to attack them.... well , thast 2 bases in the area , there are more and aircraft fly fast , ships do not sail fast

[edit on 24/8/08 by Harlequin]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Mm. No, it wasn't random, flower. I was replying to a previous post.


The West should concentrate on Pakistan/Afghanistan/Iran/Iraq/Syria/North Korea and leave this one alone.


I was pointing out that the Neocons might not 'leave this one alone'; One of their core military goals is to fight and win 'multiple, simultaneous major theater wars.'

Next?



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 





also , Russia should provide Al Qaida with advanced weapons , so that the Islamic resistance forces decimate and destroy the evil genocidal imperialist american forces in Iraq

Everytime I see a post by the above poster it's a death wish or some sort of commie comment. What gives with this guy?
Is he a terrorist or what?

Back on topic, that is an awful strange group of war ships if they are just delivering aid. I am sure many of us here will be keeping an eye on this situation.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by stealthsurfer
 


Yea, Manson_322 is off his rocker. He is so 180 degrees off of what the majority ATS'ers think that he should be a comedian. He really cracks me up even if he thinks he's serious.
Whats up with his avatar, it really matches his style.....

I am ROLMAF



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


I can see where your coming from in a certain respect , but hating USA isn't the answer , remember its governments that are the enemy not the people, and wishing mass death on people is just sick really, you obviously need help or you are a terrorist plain and simple, your ideals border on extremism and i just think you are seriously misguided imo, seek help or better still educate yourself as you really are getting sucked into the propoganda war.
War is wrong plain and simple , no matter what side you are on you lose!



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Not to mention all the submarines they have in the area, and russia have some very useful subs ...



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


Russia better hope nothing happens considering how its aerial arm fared against Georgian air defense units. NATO warships and several AEGIS equipped ships would make the Georgian effort seem insignificant in companion. And in case you have not noticed look at how many NATO countries and pro Western nations border the Black Sea. USAFE and CENTCOM air units can be quickly deployed to the region. I'd be interested to find out about non publicized SSN deployments to area.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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If Russia dosent like being bottled in then maybe they should beep off and pull out of Georgia and leave the Polish, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Moldovans, Belarusians, etc alone to run their own countries without Russian interference.

Poland is an sovereign nation, if they want a US missile defense system then thats their business not Russia's.

I find it so funny, Russia interferes in a nation's affairs and its ok but yet the US tries to defend another nation from Russia and suddenly its all "evil imperialist Americans" blah blah blah from the usual wackos.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by ChrisF231]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


Think about what you're saying there buddy. You advocate the same actions making you no better than "Genocidal USA".

Yes let's kill 300,000,000 people for no reason. Lets act like EVERY GENOCIDAL LEADER IN THE WORLD.

No matter what flag you salute, or burn there is blood.

Rise above it man more thoughts like this won't help the world heal.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by WestPoint23
 


only 4 planes were lost and one of tu-22mr recon version thanks to advanced Buk-m1 system
compare that to US air losses in Iraq and afghanistan:


At least 114 helicopters and 20 fixed-wing aircraft have been lost in Iraq since the 2003 invasion. At least 41 of the crashes have been attributed to hostile fire such as anti-aircraft artillery and surface-to-air missiles. In March 2007, Brig. Gen. Stephen Mundt said that 130 helicopters had been lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan, about a third to hostile fire, and he was concerned that they were not being replaced fast enough.
en.wikipedia.org...

more than 40 helos lost to hostile attacks , and those who destroyed it are a bunch of ragtag insurgents armed with Ak's or RPG's




NATO warships and several AEGIS equipped ships would make the Georgian effort seem insignificant in companion. And in case you have not noticed look at how many NATO countries and pro Western nations border the Black Sea. USAFE and CENTCOM air units can be quickly deployed to the region

and then expect the much better units of Russian AF,Ground units and artillery to enter(i.e. Iskander missile)

also warships and destroyers would be made short work of by russian supersonic sea skimmers or the hypersonic kh-22 of the russian AF




many NATO countries and pro Western nations border the Black Sea. USAFE and CENTCOM air units can be quickly deployed to the region


time will tell about this as there will be massive logistics problems created by russian attacks on logistics lines


and if battle further escalates , expect mass evacuations many smaller russian cities and towns , and then a massive beginning nuclear exchanges between USA and NATO(Europe) vs Russia

estimated death toll of nuclear exchange :

USA: 180-270 million(initial death toll, further toll would rise with cancers,diseases etc. )

Europe:400-550 million +

Russia :60-80 million+ ,


Expected Aftermath of nuclear exchange:
USA and Europe ceases to exist as a entity
Russia govt continues to function thanks to massive underground cities(like Koshovsky,sherapovo,yamantau,Uragan defence,Ramenki etc) and massive civil defence network created during Soviet era , but ends as a vassal to China or India , for technology , Food , medicines,reconstruction etc..

expect Russia society (albiet a much weaker one ) to rise after 50-70 years

P.S Stellar is resident expert on russian civil defence and underground bases




[edit on 24-8-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 24-8-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


my apologies for going overboard , i despise US genocides , imperialism,meddling and hypocrsiy

i don't hate american people , check my posts here :

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 24-8-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


I can't imagine Russia starting a nuclear war over Georgia. Even if NATO and Russia go to war over Georgia, as long as the conflict doesn't involve NATO invading Russia I doubt the Russians will resort to nuclear war. They are not stupid. The Russians arnt going to cause the extinction of the human race over a small nation in the Caucasus.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


I don't give a damn what you "despise" When you talk about killing americans with biological weapons you're instantly on my list of people that i don't like. Just becasue some of us here hate our government doesn't mean we hate America. Keep your stupid responses out of this crap, your not even talking about the georgian conflict, your just rambling about hating americans, stupid.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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I can't believe many of the comments in this thread. You all know that Georgia started the war, is murdering innocent civilians, and Russia is there to defend their people from the Georgians right? That this is just a ruse by the US? How much f-in simpler does it have to be this is elementary ATS for **** sake.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisF231
If Russia dosent like being bottled in then maybe they should beep off and pull out of Georgia and leave the Polish, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Moldovans, Belarusians, etc alone to run their own countries without Russian interference.

Poland is an sovereign nation, if they want a US missile defense system then thats their business not Russia's.

I find it so funny, Russia interferes in a nation's affairs and its ok but yet the US tries to defend another nation from Russia and suddenly its all "evil imperialist Americans" blah blah blah from the usual wackos.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by ChrisF231]


and What did the west do with Serbia ?
The West is allowed to support secessionists and dismantle sovereign countries and thus violate international rules and principles.
Russia is just doing the same. If Sebia cedes Kosovo (cultural and historical Serbia let's not forget this) then Georgia must cede South Ossetia

[edit on 24-8-2008 by eibwen]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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MIKE, have you forgot that WW1 was alledgedly started by the the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand. Wars have a habit of escalating and getting out of control very quickly.

The Neocons who are controlling the US know that Russia/China/India are the next in line to be top dog. Their mentality is such that they think the only way to sustain Pax America is to wage War. There is a big difference in what Politicians say their militaries are capable of and what said military can actually achieve.

Since the fall of the USSR, Russia has been rearming and rebuilding its forces and defences thanks to the growth in its economy. China's economy is going throught the roof and they are spending massive amounts on their military. The US on the other hand has an economy in tatters and its military is already stretched in many places.

On top of all that you have the US people sick of war, sick of Goverment corruption, sick of the way the countries being run and all the rest of it. Thats not a strong position when sword playing with Russia. Russia has a massive ABM system, 2nd strike nuke capabilities, billions have been spent on under mountain bases and civil defence. By comparison how much does the US or any other Western country spend on CD not much I can tell you.

Starting a conflict with Russia would be suicide, the country is massive, trying to maintain logistics in such a place would be a nightmare. Russia is ahead on the US on rocket technology and other weapons systems. The US, NATO and the West have no known countermeasures to some of Russia's weapons systems.

And the fact is that many Europeans see Russia as part of Europe, and a trading partner, they would be loath to fight in a US sponsered war for the benefit of the US. If such a conflict ensued we would see Europe in ruins, the US in ruins, and how many dead and for what, the wishes of a few homicidal power mad maniacs.

Russia would also sustain much damage but would come out of any such conflict in a far better shape then us. We have to realise what is happening and to stop it now before it gets out of control. This is not about Americans hating Russians or vice versa. No this is about a group of blood sucking parasites that screw us on a regular basis, and while we die and suffer they become richer and even more powerful.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


excellent post .... Starred..




posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Harlequin
 


I agree, nothing will happen unless provocation, even when we hear so much in the media about Russia posible confrntatation and war with the west, the US and Russia have more in common as friend that they will ever be as enemies.

Sometimes I find so amusing how debatable nations with military might are portrayed in the media and this boards, China, Russia are always two nations that their military comes into question and scrutiny when compare to the US.

Even when we know US might by what we have learn from our government we will never actually know the might of China and Russia and sometimes it has nothing to do with military power.



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