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Wisconsin woman cuffed, booked for not paying library fines

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posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Daniem
She stole the books and failed to appear in court... whats the problem? she was cought and deserved the punishment.

You have lots communists and fascists where you live? I dont even see how you connect this to those ideologies. But if you can explain please.


It doesnt say anywhere in this story she stole the books and didnt show up in court. She borrowed the books from the library like millions of others have since the library system has been in place.

So let me make an example of how wrong this is. In some states you get a ticket for speeding, You dont pay the fine or even go to court. They no longer issue a warrant because its only traffic and they dont have room in the jails for such minor offenses. So instead they send it to collections and you cant get a drivers license in any state till you pay it.

But you dont return a few books to your local library in wisconsin and you get a warrant issued and taken to jail.

Anyone who thinks this is ok, I.M.O. Should really take a step back and look at What a waist of time and money this action is. Sounds like to me that it is a scam by the local police to generate cash. Using tactics like this Is wrong and should be challenged In a higher court.

The peoples voice used to mean something in this country, But the last 8 years has proven that we have lost our voice all together. All i can say now is may god help us all. We are in for one hell of a future With a lot of grief to come.




posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Interestinggg
Why don't they just microchip the books?


They have that at my town library here in the good ole UK of A



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by loam
SHE FAILED TO APPEAR IN COURT. That is why she was arrested.

Are you missing the point, or don't you understand that all she did was not return some library books?


I think you're the one that missed the point, as have several others in this thread.




“I said, what could they possibly do? They can’t arrest me for this… I was wrong,” Dalibor said.

Dalibor did not respond to four notices from the library, two phone calls and two letters. The library forwarded the case to police, who issued a citation for Dalibor's failure to return the materials or pay the fine. The citation included a court date, which Dalibor admits she ignored.

Source.



Why does she get a pass for stealing from the taxpayer?

Why does she get a pass for ignoring a valid fine for her theft?

Why does she get a pass for ignoring a valid summons to a court of law?

People are always railing on this board about how there is no accountability in government or with respect to our politicians.

Is it any wonder why?

Things have become so corrupt that even NORMAL people fail to see how their simple attitudes have eaten away at the core of the system.

Good grief, she even arrogantly states that she didn't expect to be held accountable!

WHY?????

The rot starts at the bottom and goes all the way to the top. (Click on my signature link.)

I'm sick of a culture that thinks its ok to cheat.

What's wrong with you people????

:shk:





[edit on 25-8-2008 by loam]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:18 AM
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I love the handcuffs in this case. She's such a criminal, you can't tell if she's going to get violent on the cops, so you best cuff her just in case she thinks of killing the two police and making a break for Mexico!



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by loam
SHE FAILED TO APPEAR IN COURT. That is why she was arrested.

Are you missing the point, or don't you understand that all she did was not return some library books?

The bureaucracy failed on every level, as shown by placing the woman in handcuffs for not returning a library book.

Bah! I've had enough of people who support the system, when the entire system is morally corrupt, devoid of emapthy and completely consuming.

Why didn't they knock on her door and ask for the books back? It would have cost less money than sending around the goon-squad to cuff her.


It's quite obvious she's was giving the law the finger. It may be a trivial situation that started it but it was her total disrepect for the law that has caused it to escalate. She's an idiot, stop defending an idiot.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by loam


What's wrong with you people????



I suppose if you had your way people would get their hands chopped off for stealing too, eh.

So damn what, she didn't show up to court - who the hell cares. A bunch of overpaid under performing servants with nothing better do do than criminalizing people for not respecting the corrupt system.

The question is not what's wrong with us it's what's wrong with a system that overreacts by creating criminals out of people for such nonsense.

It's what I call a fascist police state and eventually people will say enough is enough.

So what if she stole a couple books - so that excuses the cops & the courts to rob us of a few thousand dollars in taxpayers money for $20 worth of books.

I don't care much for people who steal from the public library, but I care even less for inept public servants who can't find a better way to deal with it.





[edit on 25-8-2008 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


She didn't get a pass, loam, she paid dearly!

You've made some good points, and I'm sorry if you're "sick of people
cheating". I am sick of them, too. Especially those in gov. who do it, and
set a terrible example for the rest of us.

Nice link, by the way.

I think the shame lies with police, who would do the rest of us a lot more
good by exercising that zeal to arrest people who "rot" our delicate system
from the TOP down!

You know the ones, they've gotten a lot of great American Soldiers killed
in Iraq by lying to us. AND, lots of them profit from the military complex
supplying the Armed Forces, among many other things that you're smart
enough to know about, without me "railing".

For me, if I were a cop, I'd want nothing to do with serving a warrant on
a library cheater; and EVERYTHING to do with serving warrants on war
criminals, Securities & Exchange violators, and any leader guilty of perjury
and collusion, to name a few!



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by verylowfrequency
I suppose if you had your way people would get their hands chopped off for stealing too, eh.


What utter nonsense.



Originally posted by verylowfrequency
So damn what, she didn't show up to court - who the hell cares. A bunch of overpaid under performing servants with nothing better do do than criminalizing people for not respecting the corrupt system.


Read that again.

In other words, you justify lawlessness, because you can point to it elsewhere.

Is that the world you want to build? Because if it is, you're partly they way there. So what do you have to complain about?




Originally posted by verylowfrequency
The question is not what's wrong with us it's what's wrong with a system that overreacts by creating criminals out of people for such nonsense.


Your in good company.

Our Attorney General Agrees With You.


Originally posted by verylowfrequency
It's what I call a fascist police state and eventually people will say enough is enough.

So what if she stole a couple books - so that excuses the cops & the courts to rob us of a few thousand dollars in taxpayers money for $20 worth of books.


*sigh*

You have no idea what you are talking about.


-----

Look folks, I realize we are talking about JUST library books. But it's not like a SWAT team came in and tazed the woman because she didn't return them on time.

They wrote. They called. They cited. They summoned.

And she...in her sole...lawless...arrogant...discretion middle fingered everyone...including the taxpayer.

Again, why is she so special that she gets to decide what rules she can ignore???

So what happened? They arrested her. BIG DEAL. Did you think they should have just given her a medal? What choice did she leave anyone? What didn't they do, before that happened?

If we can't expect or accomplish accountability on even the little things, can we really expect it on ANYTHING?

Think about this people.

This story isn't about some poor woman getting arrested because she didn't return library books.


[edit on 25-8-2008 by loam]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by loam
 

There is such a thing as garnishment of wages/taxes and credit agents. Apparently owing money is against the law now???



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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Some homeless guy goes in a store steals a .99 cent candy bar. He gets caught sent to jail fined a couple hundred dollars then is released. Months later since he can't pay the fine, the judge issues a bench warrant. later the guy gets picked up again and sent to jail even longer. Now he is forever caught in the system and now the tax payer has to pay 20 thousand dollars a year to house him in jail.

Makes you wonder who is the biggest criminal here. Judicial theft is right up there side by side with pharmaceuticals. Two of the biggest money making scams.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by sean
 


This thread isn't about theft out of necessity. Although your example would have been much more persuasive had it been a loaf of bread and not a candy bar.


Moreover, I challenge you to demonstrate we have a huge problem with incarcerating the homeless for stealing $0.99 candy bars.



[edit on 25-8-2008 by loam]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


Please explain to me how the tax payer suffered due to her not returning these books? The tax payers suffer when law enforcement waist there money on such petty things as this. Maybe you can show me how much tax you pay into the library system in your city or state. Then maybe your argument about waisting tax payers money may be relevant.


Let me also add that this is about a woman arrested for not returning books. She did not go to the library and steal the books, She borrowed them through an honor system. The fact that libraries have the power now to have you arrested for not returning books is the real crime.

If i take a loan out on a car and dont pay it, They come and repo the car. Then sell it off and i pay the remaining balance owed. If i dont pay they dont Have me arrested. They send it to collections and my credit gets slapped. Thats what should of happened in this case. No law enforcement was needed.





[edit on 25-8-2008 by russ1969]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by russ1969
Please explain to me how the tax payer suffered due to her not returning these books?


Gladly.

The tax payer suffered for the initial loss of the books, and because of her self-appointed authority to choose which laws she would abide by, SHE cost us the expense of trying to retrieve them. If everyone behaved like her, we'd have NO public libraries!

I think it's amusing how you blame the "system" for action SHE caused to be initiated and had SEVERAL opportunities to avoid.

Like I said, NONE of this would have happened if she had simply returned the books AT ANY TIME or PAID for them. Instead, she IGNORED their letters. She IGNORED their calls. She IGNORED their fine. And, she IGNORED their summons.

You support that behavior and want to blame the 'system'?


Look, I think my posting history makes pretty clear that I am a staunch opponent of abuse of power. But this story is NOT that!

She deserved the humiliation and inconvenience of arrest for her arrogant and unjustified decisions. PLAIN and SIMPLE.


EDIT:

Since you added to your post:


Originally posted by russ1969
Let me also add that this is about a woman arrested for not returning books.


No, it is not.

She was arrested for failing to appear in court, which she could have avoided at her discretion by paying a fine.

So your version is WRONG!


Originally posted by russ1969
The fact that libraries have the power now to have you arrested for not returning books is the real crime.


They don't. See above.


Originally posted by russ1969
If i take a loan out on a car and dont pay it, They come and repo the car...


I think it's amusing that you'd be in favor of librarians having the power to have the books forcibly returned.





[edit on 25-8-2008 by loam]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
This is called a serious lack of responsibility and a bad allocation of police responsibilities.

Try going to your local police department and complaining about byciclists in the street not obeying street traffic laws in certain sectors of the city, and ask them to send some units out there to issue tickets accordingly

guess what?

They'll tell you they have better things to do

i was stopped by the police when riding my back, they said i should have lights front\rear on my bike...i pointed out that as it was 2pm on a sunny july day lights where not needed..they then went on to point out i didnt have a bell....they said they would let me of with a warning....being 17 at the time i shouted f##kyou as i peddled away. the 2 cops chased after me and i was making oink oink noises , people in the town where laughing at the cops.....lol

[edit on 25-8-2008 by fatdad]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by fatdad
....being 17 at the time i shouted f##kyou as i peddled away. the 2 cops chased after me and i was making oink oink noises , people in the town where laughing at the cops.....lol


And we wonder why things are getting so bad in this country?

The ROT is everywhere you look.

:shk:



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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everyone pays taxes,whether its direct or indirect, even the woman pays taxes,the money the government makes from the people in taxes funds everything that is supplied for the people,so how can you steal something for which you have subscribed?
the police, judges and supporting network get paid from the taxes that are collected, anytime you are taken up against a judge you normally lose and so contribute more funds (fines) to the system, its another tax which is only affected by those who are prosecuted.
The people are only wanted for one thing ,your vote, your choice is limited because you can only choose from those elected, and once in power do you really think they are interested in the people who put them in power? they will say they are your friend ,with a lovely smile (con men do the same thing)
people read the newspapers (partly true) watch the news on tv. (partly true) its the few that notify (true or ) the masses, but the people do not respond to those who are in control, except when it comes to striking,,,,then they listen, because people can only be pushed so far,take action and then, get rebuked for upsetting the applecart.
its the system, and those at the top like everything nice and rosy.
The police are paid by the people , but its those in authority that turn the police against the people. Maybe the people should insist that politicians should run a census on what the people want, rather than do their own thing once in power.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


Did the library not use the system to retrieve the books? The answer is yes. So back to the point., The use of the courts and police to retrieve 30 dollars worth of books is abuse of the system. You can keep saying how its because she didnt appear in court all you want. Look at the facts, It was all over 30 dollars worth of books. And if you dont live in the town that this happened in then your tax money didnt have anything to do with it. And if you do live there, Than it didnt cost you more than some change that you may find in your couch.

You are failing to see why this type of enforcement is wrong and your not addressing the the fact that it cost a lot more to tax payers to even take this to court. A total waist of time and resources. Do you want to know what most cops do when they have minor warrants to serve due to not appearing in court? They re-cite the person and give them another court date. They do this because they know the courts and jails have bigger fish to fry.

I also see that arguing this point with you is pointless in itself. What you are saying no matter how small the crime is, it is still a crime and should be dealt with. Is it not? What im saying this is not a crime at all. When you loan something to someone and they dont pay it back or return the item, It becomes a civil matter and the police and criminal courts have nothing to do with it. It is up to you to persue legal action in small claims court. Now do you see my point?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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This woman would have been perfect for my first husband. LOL I remember having to pay a $35.00 fine to the public Library in 1970 because he was too lazy to return his over due books and he decided to keep one.

He was just as defiant as her. I would have enjoyed seeing him cuffed in custody.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by russ1969
Did the library not use the system to retrieve the books? The answer is yes. So back to the point., The use of the courts and police to retrieve 30 dollars worth of books is abuse of the system.


So is that the standard you now want applied? I can steal anything I want as long as it is in less than $30 dollar increments?

What would you have had the 'system' actually do?

Let me remind you:




Dalibor did not respond to...

...four notices from the library...

...two phone calls...

...two letters...


The library forwarded the case to police...

...who issued a citation for Dalibor's failure to return the materials or pay the fine...

...The citation included a court date...

...which Dalibor admits she ignored.



So where was the abuse by the system????? Because I'm not seeing it AT ALL. Unless, of course, your position really is that it's ok to steal in $30 increments.



Originally posted by russ1969
You can keep saying how its because she didnt appear in court all you want. Look at the facts, It was all over 30 dollars worth of books. And if you dont live in the town that this happened in then your tax money didnt have anything to do with it. And if you do live there, Than it didnt cost you more than some change that you may find in your couch.


I guess that really is the standard you want applied.




Originally posted by russ1969
You are failing to see why this type of enforcement is wrong and your not addressing the the fact that it cost a lot more to tax payers to even take this to court.


So when some adult comes along and steals some little kid's lunch money, don't cry foul when it's only a few bucks.


In any public place, anyone should be able to take your umbrella...or hat...or cheap jacket...or dare I say it, the book you happen to be reading...if they want to.


Hell...retailers should just get the whole inflation thing over with and make their cheapest item more than $30 bucks so they might actually be justified in seeking legal protection under your system for the items they own.

$30 gum.



Originally posted by russ1969
A total waist of time and resources.


I completely agree. Except, you don't seem to know who wasted them.



Originally posted by russ1969
Do you want to know what most cops do when they have minor warrants to serve due to not appearing in court? They re-cite the person and give them another court date. They do this because they know the courts and jails have bigger fish to fry.


That is a description of a system with limited resources under stress. It is not a justification for a wrongdoer's actions.

Is it now also your view that crimes are justified if they can not be pursued????





Originally posted by russ1969
I also see that arguing this point with you is pointless in itself.


Probably.


[edit on 25-8-2008 by loam]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by loam
 


Ok, so am i to assume that you do not agree that this is a civil matter? Because that is what it is. If she went to the library and stole them then yes. the law applies to her. But she borrow the books and it is a civil matter no matter how you look at it. That is the point i am making.

And im not failing to see what resources where waisted here. In my opinion you may be not seeing it. I have total respect for your view on this subject and do not doubt from your previous threads that you dont support abuse of the system. I am just making my point and debating like you. I have a different opinion is all. I do not think criminals at any level should get a break. But i also dont believe that this case applies to that.



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