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Vaccine-wary parents spark public health worry

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posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by dariousg

This does bring up a good point. If a group of people reaches a certain level of 'non-vaccinated' individuals it does endanger the entire group.



"Herd Immunity" is a scam to get everyone to put toxins into their systems.

There are so many things wrong with the so-called logic that not vaccinating your children endangers the entire group.

1. How is it possible to infect someone who has been vaccinated unless their vaccination has failed. A failure of the vaccination is the fault of the pharma company, not anyone else. The only ones who are at risk (if the vaccinations actually do work) are the ones who have chosen not to vaccinate or those who are unable to.

2. The number provided in the article lead me to a different conclusion that the doctor's.

Doctor's provided data:
131 cases so far this year.
112 of those were either unvaccinated or unknown.(Dr. was vague...how many of each?)
Some were too young for vaccination.
63 refused vaccinations.


42 cases last year. (how many of those were vaccinated?)

Doing the math:

49 of the cases were either too young to be vaccinated or do not know if they were vaccinated. Some of those old enough may or may not have been vaccinated.

19 cases WERE vaccinated and their vaccines failed.

63 refused.

I fail to see a connection with "herd immunity" failure. What was the geographic location of the cases? Were they all in the same location?

This data only shows me that those who don't get vaccinated may get the disease. Those who choose not to vaccinate know the risks of catching the disease. This also shows me that 19 people who thought they were protecting themselves by injecting some substance into their veins were not protected at all.

It makes me wonder how many vaccinated people were actually exposed to measles. If it was only 19 people exposed and all 19 came down with measles, what does that say about the vaccine?

For all I know the 19 failed vaccinations may have been the source of the outbreak. Yes, this is speculation, but my theory is just as valid as the one for the Dr.'s herd immunity theory until they provide further data about the cases.

Lastly, it concerns me when laws have been passed (in a rather shady fashion, mind you) that protect vaccine companies from being sued for damages caused by their vaccines. This says to me that everyone knows the vaccines are dangerous and the company needs legal protection from those who find out they are being damaged by said vaccines.

Legal protect for vaccine companies as well as some counties in the US threatening those who refuse vaccines will go to jail. They do not tell them that they have the option to refuse for religious or personal belief.

Why are they so eager to get you to inject this substance into you and your children? Good question.

The same people will try to tell you that mercury is good for you?

I have a great solution to this dilemma:

Those who say that it is safe to inject should prove it to us all by filling a syringe with the substance in question in a similar ratio, accounting for weight, and inject it into THEIR body. Those who are intimidating other should also provide this proof by injecting into themselves as well before requiring others to do it.

I highly doubt they will agree to it. If not, why should you?


In my opinion, child vaccination is nothing but playing Russian roulette with your offspring.




posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Lethil

You should make a carefull decision,but like i said the benfits outweigh the risks.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Lethil]


According to whom? Would you rather have your child get measles or have them become autistic needing care for the rest of their lives or go into a coma and or possibly die?

I had measles as a child and I am still alive and kicking.

Here is my risk assessment:

Risk of handicap and death on one hand or risks of measle on the other.

hmmm. Seems like an easy choice to me.

Refuse vaccination.

Just my opinion.

I must add that your opinion is just as valid. I just see it differently.

I made my choice to vaccinate and now I have an autistic child.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by xman_in_blackx]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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I dont trust these vaccinations at all. The sad thing is though I had to get my kids vaccinated before they would allow them into school. Next year I am seriously considering home schooling. my only concern is the social issue and I dont want my kids being taken advantage up when they get older because they dont know how to interact with people. Its ironic though my kids never get sick until they get the shots. Then they seem to get sick.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by xman_in_blackx
1. How is it possible to infect someone who has been vaccinated unless their vaccination has failed. A failure of the vaccination is the fault of the pharma company, not anyone else. The only ones who are at risk (if the vaccinations actually do work) are the ones who have chosen not to vaccinate or those who are unable to.


Isn't that the precise point made in the article?




Scientists worry that vaccine resisters increasingly are breaching "herd immunity," the necessary level of protection that keeps disease from spreading. When enough people in a community are immune to a disease, they provide a buffer that keeps germs from infecting those too vulnerable for vaccination, or those for whom a vaccine doesn't work or wears off.



Just sayin'....



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by 38181
Are there any Doctors on this thread that care to give their Opinion anonamously? I am definitly "on the fence" and am scared.


Do your own research and come to a conclusion that you can live with either way.

If your child doesn't get vaccinated and gets measles mumps or polio, etc how will you feel about yourself?

If you give your child the vaccination regimen and he becomes autistic, how will you feel about yourself about it?

Both sides will scare you.

Whom do you believe? In the end it really is a personal choice. Don't let your doctor or anyone else decide for you. This is YOUR choice.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by dariousg
 


What you have to ask yourself is do you believe that the Medical Community is trying to kill us off and why. Does it make any sense that the pharmaceutical industry would kill off their customers, decreasing their profits or is this idea just paranoid nonsense. You need to research what it was like before these vaccines came along. You also have to ask why if these fears are well founded that our life expectancy keeps going up.

Twice in the last few days I've heard a report on the news that Measles cases are rising and it is due to Parents not vaccinating their children.

I'm old enough that we did not have many of these vaccines. I had to endure Mumps, Measles, Chicken Pox, the Whopping Cough and others as did most of my Peers. I remember many times that my Mother had to put me into a washtub of cool water to bring my fever down and the misery of the itching sores. One of the worst was the measles and I nearly died while running temperatures of over 104. I caught the Mumps as a teenager and I can't tell you how bad that is at that age. Many Parents exposed their children to the Mumps at a young age on purpose so they would not have to go through the swollen testes and possible sterility as a result as I did.

I personally believe that the anti-vaccination crowd are spewing paranoid nonsense and it is dangerous to their own children and their lives. Children I sat next to in school died from these now preventable diseases. Diseases like the measles are so virulent that one kid in a class can infect a large part of the children in the entire school.

Since not getting the vaccination is literally putting your children's lives at risk, you owe it to them to forget ATS and instead have this discussion with an MD that you trust. Tell them your concerns and ask for advice. Advice from total strangers who may or may not be delusional or paranoid on ATS is a bad idea when your child's life may depend on what you decide.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by loam

Isn't that the precise point made in the article?

Just sayin'....


I think my point was that he stated that it affects the "entire group" and the theory of herd immunity doesn't state that. Some will try to get you to believe that, but it is just not the case.

They will say that it will affect EVERYONE meaning even those who have been vaccinated. Theoretically, it should only affect those who have not been vaccinated.

Not only that, but herd immunity will only work in a perfect world, where their so called firewall protects those who are susceptible. There is no such PERFECT firewall. It is always possible for the disease to make it through firewalls/firebreaks. People do not act like computer models or the rational ways in scientists minds.

Herd immunity doesn't work and never will. So it is a moot point. With that being said, there must be other reasons why the disease has vanished or has been reduced.

I guess what is important is this:

1. There is no guarantee that the vaccine will work in the first place.
2. There is risk involved with taking the vaccine.
3. This should be a personal choice and not a mandated one.
4. There is legal protection for the vaccine manufacturers. Why? Shouldn't there be legal protection for those who take the vaccines?
5. The vaccination schedule is rushed and puts too many toxins into a child for his/her weight.
6. The CDC says there is a link between autism and vaccinations with those with specific genetic anomalies, yet they then say a few sentences later that there is no connection between vaccinations and autism. FLIP FLOP nonsense.

When the manufacturers are held accountable for the products they push, then perhaps I will believe in what they preach. Until then, I will have my doubts about what they are trying to inject into us.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by dariousg
 


What you have to ask yourself is do you believe that the Medical Community is trying to kill us off and why. Does it make any sense that the pharmaceutical industry would kill off their customers, decreasing their profits or is this idea just paranoid nonsense.



Kill their clients or make them sick? Will big pharma make any money by making people sick? you bet. Cures don't make any money, but a constant fix of "treatment" makes a ton of cash.


I do agree that this is an individual choice. They should research for themselves. Including dosages and allowable safe limits of ingredients.

That alone will tell you the truth. My pediatrician told me that the vaccine had the equivalent amount of mercury of a can of tuna. What he didn't say was that both the FDA/CDC states that infants should stay away from tuna and that only one can should be eaten per week. He also didn't say that MULTIPLE vaccines were given to my child in that one session. So it was more like 10 cans of tuna.

Hmmm. Sure. Doctors know everything. They surely must also know that mercury is now good for you according to studies.

The FDA or CDC will NEVER lie to us and pharmaceutical companies will NEVER treat us like numbers (dollar signs) instead of people. They all only have our best interests in mind.

Here is how I see it:

Pharma creates disease
Pharma creates disease treatment
Pharma makes money

I will just have to agree to disagree with you.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Alora
 


The reason you are seeing problems now and did not 20-30 years ago is because the vaccines are no longer made in the USA. Often they are made in CHINA

When you combine it with the WTO Sanitary and Phytosanitary Agreement that does not allow trade barriers such as testing...


By restraining a country's sanitary and phytosanitary regulations, the Agreement has weakened national protections against bioinvasion (McNeely, 1999)


xstatic99645.tripod.com...

The problem is not just vaccines but with food too. The USDA is now doing about 1/10 of the testing that used to be done. (If you do not test you do not find a problem) The idea is to shift from testing to tagging. Wait until a large number of people become sick and then use the tags to track it back to the source. Much simpler and the corporate giants get to ship across national borders freely without testing or quarintine.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Have you seen what the diseases these vaccines prevent can do to kids?

And are you aware of the tiny, tiny amount of things like mercury (bound up in relatively bioinavailable thimerosal) in the tenth of a cc or so of vaccine a kid gets? We're talking about homeopathic quantities here - fractions of a part per million.

One part per million of aluminum in an injection does not a sheet of Reynplds Foil make. Going to give up organic food because of the thousand parts per million or so of fly and rat excreta in your bulgur? Me neither.

Moreover, that list of "ingredients" is a work of clumsy fiction. "Tissue from aborted fetuses?" Where did you get that?

I used to work in hospitals. I've seen kids from refugee families doubled up in pain and with horrible lesions from diseases preventable by vaccinations they didn't get. Want to see that in your very own family? Don't vaccinate your kids.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by vfrickey
reply to post by Amaterasu

And are you aware of the tiny, tiny amount of things like mercury (bound up in relatively bioinavailable thimerosal) in the tenth of a cc or so of vaccine a kid gets? We're talking about homeopathic quantities here - fractions of a part per million.



Interesting. Do you get your annual flu shot? There are new studies linking Alzheimer's with annual flu shots. Apparently those TINY amounts can make a different to some.

IMO the dosage isn't the rub, it is the ingredient. Some toxins are deadly in the most minute amounts. If you worked in a hospital, you should know this.

Ask yourself, would you pony up an arm for an injection of Thimerosal in the equivalent dosage ratio accounting for weight as an infant?

Let's see, before it was "removed" 25 mcg of Thimerosal was in vaccines. An average vaccination regimen would involve approx 10 vaccines at once. Just for argument's sake, we say that only 5 of those 10 contained Thimerosal. That would equate to 125 mcg Thimerosal for approx a 20 pound infant. Accounting for weight, if you weigh 120 pounds, the equivalent dosage would be 781mcg of Thimerosal.

How would you feel about getting a syringe of 781 mcg Thimerosal injected into you? Would you allow it?

How small is the amount now? How safe is it now? People forget that infants weigh less so the dosages affect them more.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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i don't understand why people are so quick to trust drug companies, as if they're the only industry NOT solely concerned with money and really are looking out for the common person's best interest...righhhhttt



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by xman_in_blackx

Pharma creates disease
Pharma creates disease treatment
Pharma makes money

I will just have to agree to disagree with you.



Unless you have irrefutable proof you should not advise anyone on medical matters regarding their children. Period, end of subject.

Are you old enough to have witnessed what it was like before these vaccines? Measles are on the rise because of people saying this stuff and scaring parents into bad decisions. When pregnant women are exposed it results in a large number of spontaneous abortions and if the child survives they are born with incurable illnesses.

Mumps if caught by teenage boys can drop into their testicles and cause sterility.

We have these vaccines for a reason and these diseases existed long before medical science had anywhere near the ability to create designer diseases; making your belief they created these diseases nothing more than a dangerous paranoid fantasy. Hopefully that won't lead to any child's death, disfigurement or suffering.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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Find yourself an old graveyard. One who's gravestones go back to prior to 1918. You will find a huge area of children's gravestones dated 1918 or there abouts. The first time I saw one it brought me to tears. Thank God for vaccinations. If you don't know what I'm referring to, you should not post on this topic.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Well, I only read the first page of this thread so far. I have a 10 month old. I have gone through so much hell with CPS, and her doctor...

Basically, they are very intimidating, to go with what they want... Or lose your kid.

My daughter's doctor promised there is no Mercury, and nothing harmful in all of the vaccines she gets every couple months.

Honestly, I am scared and so is my mom. My little one zones out and stares off into space, and sometimes starts shaking her head back and forth for long periods of time...

Is this something to worry about? How do I know if this is normal, or if she will end up with Autism or something?

I am scared, government branches use intimidation and rule our lives.

I just want my little girl to be ok.. And government to not harass my family.

EDIT to clarify

[edit on 23-8-2008 by LostNemesis]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Alora
 


The reason you are seeing problems now and did not 20-30 years ago is because the vaccines are no longer made in the USA. Often they are made in CHINA

When you combine it with the WTO Sanitary and Phytosanitary Agreement that does not allow trade barriers such as testing...


SNIPPED for space


Thank you for the reply and answering my question.
I don't know if I will ever be able to sleep soundly again.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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I don't blame them for being cautious. Whereas I think the vaccines can really benefit, parents should be educated on what each does and the contraindications. In 1997 my little brother was given a Hepatitis B Vaccination-which was required where we lived for kids starting that year of school(in middle school). That was due to them wanting to study this vaccine, immigrant children bring Hepatitis into the country and higher rates of Hep. We were living in South Florida at the time. These vaccinations caused a lot of problems that year and it may be possible he was slightly affected. Ever since that year he was never the same mentally. Some of the children were put in mental institutions due to the vaccine.

Vaccination Study PDF

Hep B Vaccine Complaints in FL
Kinda hard to read because of the text but has some info.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by dariousg


Okay, here is where I am torn as a father of three. You hear reports of mercury being in these vaccines. Then I see a newscast where the government is trying to have scientists say that mercury may actually be good for you. Then you hear the stories of people who 'played with it their entire childhood and are fine" and then the link to autism.

What are we to believe? I believe that you do develop an immunity to disease by being exposed to it. Simple medicine. However, I have also seen declassified documents where the government has run tests on people without their knowledge. Even after it was declared illegal. (A point that just kills me. Why wouldn't it have been illegal in the first flipping place?)

Now we get more and more parents who are becoming aware of the government putting crap in the vaccines like mercury. They are choosing to make their kids immune to having to have these shots.

This does bring up a good point. If a group of people reaches a certain level of 'non-vaccinated' individuals it does endanger the entire group.

It is a discussion I have had with my wife on many occassions and one that we are still on the fence about.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


I am a parent of two, and I faced the same question.

I went and did extensive research, and discussed my findings and concerned with medical experts from BOTH sides of the debate.

Once you do this - there is no choice in what to do. You DO NOT VACCINATE - period!

Vaccines do NOT confer immunity to anything - period.

Vaccines are NOT safe - period.

Vaccines DO contribute a huge toxic load into the human body, and insult the immune sytem.

Vaccinating your child is exactly like playing russian roulette. Some will not survive it, some with survive with injuries, and others, - there is no bullet.

It is just one of many scientific frauds perpectuated upon the gullible masses, and for those who research BOTH sides properly - this is self evident.

ONLY those who are ignorant of BOTH sides of the vaccination debate - support vaccination.

Duncan



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by nexusmagazine
 


my wife & I have struggled a great deal with this subject. She is an OT and sees 1st hand every day the effects of autism. we have a 19 month old daughter that we have chosen not to have vaccinated. she hasn't had anything more than a runny nose. my friend has a 17 month old who was vaccinated. they've had 2 ER visits for high fevers and the poor little guy always seems to have some bug.
All I know is that we're raising our daughter as naturally as we can and praise God, she is the brightest, most healthy child we could hope for. she talks in full sentences, she's potty trained. she is so much healthier & more advanced than than other children her age that we know (all of whom were vaccinated). I still struggle with what to do, but my gut tells me these vaccines are BAD news.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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I can't say that all vaccines have been bad. I just don't know. But I do suspect that the human body can handle a great number of things given proper nutrition and supplementation. I don't ever remember being given a flu vaccine. I get sick less than family members who get them.

I suffer less, yet some of my family can't see this. It's like the NLP that was being talked about in another thread. People are so programmed to believe everything the medical community says, even to the point of not being able to observe for themselves. My father knows he still gets sick after the flu vaccine, but he still does it. I guess because he trusts the source.

I guess it is some how implied that doctors know "all" about health and nutrition. We here things like, "only your doctor knows....," "there is no cure for....."

Not one incision was made to help with my hernia type symptoms. Not one visit to the doctor was made because of it. I feel I owe the improvement to large doses of vitamins and minerals. Now, it isn't polio, but it does show the power of supplementation.

Troy



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