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Why won’t god heal amputees?

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posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 03:38 AM
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ok, tons of scriptures on jesus' healing, and there are a few scriptures about apostles healing too. but the real question is why? and why it doesnt happen today.

1st, jesus' healing was to show that he was the son of god. the miracles were to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was the messiah.

so healing wasnt just about the simple act of healing, it was also to prove that god was with them.


The reason why he healed people is irrelevant; the point is he did heal people through miracles, so we should be able to heal people now. Do you pray to god when a loved one is sick? If you do then you must believe god answers you through pray and heals them. God can get rid of the flew but can’t heal amputees? I find this quite baffling….


the thing about healing is that it cant be faked. the televangelists on TV, they fake it, and if you look hard enough into their claims usually the "sick" werent sick at all, ….. jesus' healing was thorough, in front of critics, to the point where they had to admit it.


If Jesus really did heal people 2000 years ago as the bible claims, (like healing the soldier) we should be able to perform the same miracles such as healing amputees. Jesus told those who had faith in him, they too could perform those same miracles. When you pray to god to heal someone whether they have cancer or are missing a leg, god should obviously be able to do both.

If you would like to make an illogical reply like Bigwhammy did – “We do not deserve it” then explain why if we don’t deserve to be healed by god, does god heal us anyway when we pray? If god doesn’t answer your prayer then WTF pray in the first place????? If god does heal us through prayer then we obviously do deserve being healed. So god should be able to heal amputees through prayer as well………..


in short, why dont christians heal amputees? because they cant, they are not given the power. if the claim they have the power, but cant heal an amputee, then they are lying simple as that.


Why do I keep repeating myself? We all have the power, Jesus said it himself that anyone who truly believes in him will be able to perform the same type of miracles he does. If you believe in him you can do it. It’s that simple……………..

[edit on 26-8-2008 by andre18]




posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
The reason why he healed people is irrelevant;


its not irrelevant, its at the very heart of the matter. understanding why jesus healed puts everything in perspective. if god set up a temporary arrangement, then you have to understand why.


God can get rid of the flew but can’t heal amputees? I find this quite baffling….

its only baffling to you because you leave out important key points like ¨why¨


If Jesus really did heal people 2000 years ago as the bible claims, (like healing the soldier) we should be able to perform the same miracles such as healing amputees. Jesus told those who had faith in him, they too could perform those same miracles. When you pray to god to heal someone whether they have cancer or are missing a leg, god should obviously be able to do both.

you cant take some of the scriptures, and ignore others. the ¨gifts¨ were done away with. they served their purpose.



We all have the power, Jesus said it himself that anyone who truly believes in him will be able to perform the same type of miracles he does. If you believe in him you can do it. It’s that simple……………..

didnt you know that even in the first century when christians did have those gifts, not all could do them?

1 cor 12:
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1 cor 12:
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

does this mean that those that couldnt heal had some lack of faith?

your cherry picking, your ignoring the reason why, you ignore the scripture that gifts are done away with, and your ignoring the spirit of what jesus said.

i assume thats so you can say that christians are a load of baloney. if your truly interested in a serious debate, you have to take all the factors into consideration.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 05:42 AM
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You know what I see the problem is here? A lack of definition and clarity. see what you think of this...

I hear people ask this ALL the time. Why does God heal someone of cancer and not return an amputated leg?

My answer isn't that he doesn't return the leg it's that he didn't cute the cancer either. I think some people think every time a cancer patient remisses or a diabetic is saved at the last second it's a miracle of God. IF God truly did these 'gifts' as Miriam stated then I think they would cross the board. Now again, it is true I am not a Christian but following the discussion here I thinkt he point is being missed. If you think God is curing cancer but not amputations then I think the problem is that God isn't curing the cancer either.

-Kyo



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by pureevil81

was the completion of the bible the end of prophecy or healing, or miracles in general?


i see what your saying, but this is one of those situations when the result is obvious.

all one would have to do is look around and see if there is anyone who follows the bible without hypocracy, who is healing people (genuinely healing them) for free.

so far i havent found people. anyone ive seen who "heals" does it for financial gain, and usually they arent exampls for the christian faith.

another example covered in 1 corinthians is speaking in tongues. tons of churches claim to do it, but i have yet to see one where the "tongue" being spoken was an actual language, and not some cryptic slurrings.

yes there is mentioning of time when people were needed to translation certain things said, but there is every reason to believe that the apostles were given the ability to speak different languages. this wasnt something that wore off either.

acts 2:[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

you just dont find this in the world anymore.

Hello Miriam, peace to you. I just wanted to share with you some things that might help to you and all to understand what was being said. I'm not trying to belittle anyone. I feel like a broken record, but the words in the English are not giving you the clearest understanding of what these words actually meant.

I am not a scholar, but I've studied direct word for word translations. English is giving an un-proper account of the scriptures. You may study this for yourself, if you think it not true. I would invite anyone too, if you value the word, do it justice and study it word for word. You will be blessed.

Key words to understand:
I am going to give you the direct word for word translation, then I want you all to hold it up to your Eng. Bible and see if you got the same meaning...

Acts 2:4

(....They begin....)
G756 archomai ar'-khom-ahee
middle voice of G757 (through the implication, of precedence);
to commence (in order of time):--(rehearse from the) begin(-ning).
G757 archo ar'-kho
a primary verb;to be first (in political rank or power):--reign (rule) over.

(....to-be-talking...)
G2980 laleo lal-eh'-o
a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb;
to talk, i.e. utter words:--preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare G3004.
G3004 lego leg'-o
a primary verb;properly, to "lay" forth, i.e. (figuratively) relate (in words (usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas G2036 and G5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while G4483 is properly to break silence merely, and G2980 means an extended or random harangue)); by implication, to mean:--ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say(-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter.

(....different...)
G2087 heteros het'-er-os
of uncertain affinity;(an-, the) other or different:--altered, else, next (day), one, (an-)other, some, strange

(...tongues...)
G1100 glossa gloce-sah'
of uncertain affinity;the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue.

(...according AS...)
G2531 kathos kath-oce'
from G2596 and G5613;just (or inasmuch) as, that:--according to, (according, even) as, how, when
G2596 kata kat-ah'
a primary particle;(prepositionally) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case (genitive, dative or accusative) with which it is joined):--about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, (charita-)bly, concerning, + covered, (dai-)ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from ... to, godly, in(-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), ... by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-)on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through(-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-)to(-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where(-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution, or intensity.
G5613 hos hoce
probably adverb of comparative from G3739;which how, i.e. in that manner (very variously used, as follows):--about, after (that), (according) as (it had been, it were), as soon (as), even as (like), for, how (greatly), like (as, unto), since, so (that), that, to wit, unto, when(-soever), while, X with all speed.

(...spirit...)
G4151 pneuma pnyoo'-mah
from G4154;
a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a
spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental
disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's
spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
G4154 pneo pneh'-o
a primary word;to breathe hard, i.e. breeze:--blow. Compare G5594.
G5594 psucho psoo'-kho
a primary verb;
to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from G4154, which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of G109, which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):--wax cold.

(...gave...)
G1325 didomi did'-o-mee
a prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an alternative in most of the tenses);to give (used in a very wide application, properly, or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection):--adventure, bestow, bring forth, commit, deliver (up), give, grant, hinder, make, minister, number, offer, have power, put, receive, set, shew, smite (+ with the hand), strike (+ with the palm of the hand), suffer, take, utter, yield.

Half way through 2:4...



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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Acts 2:4 continued...

(them)
G846 autos ow-tos'

from the particle au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a
baffling wind) (backward);the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the comparative G1438) of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons:--her, it(-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, (self-), the) same, ((him-, my-, thy- )self, (your-)selves, she, that, their(-s), them(-selves), there(-at, - by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with), they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which. Compare G848

I'll stop with 2:4 as you can see it takes a long time just to get through one short verse of scripture.

The languages of the bible also, carry no (past,future tense) unless specifically stated so, it is a living word. If "you are the kingdom of heaven", as you've been told from the bible, and the "kingdom of heaven is in you"..."if you are the temple of the spirit", as Paul says, then where do you believe God Dwells, if not in you?

When Jesus says, "With God all things are possible..." he says this because, "with G-d a day is as a thousand years, an a thousand years are as a day"

To those who come to him saying they were the helpers, he will say"Away, I remember you not"....

Also, G-d will FORGET our sin. He throws it, "behind his back" and Re MEMBERS it "no more"...understand, time heals all. The fear of eternity, is the fear of remembering. Being forgotten in desolation, or being remembered by the ones who we lead...the children, because they lead us where we "know not". They are as the spirit which you hear, but know not where it is coming and not to where it will go.

The story is a deep personal one about you and God, in all your many lives, waiting for you to remember and be "caught up in the air"...."the air your head in habits"...."the lofty place"...

Peace



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 

miriam said: "a few years ago i was having problems regarding my faith, certain passages i couldnt understand because they conflicted with dogma and then i also saw so much hypocrisy in the church. so i prayed. i basically prayed to god to set my path straight and to help me understand what i wasnt getting. i prayed to show me his will. very specifically i wanted to know why god permited suffering. no time at all, i had a knock on the door. the christian offered me a pamphlet called "why does god permit suffering"

the pamphlet showed scriptures that answered a question i had been grappling with all my life. all i had to do was humbly ask for the answer. "

I don't have a pamphlet but I want to tell you something. The hardest thing I've ever done is bury my dad. He was only fifty seven years old when he died. He had been sick on and off for around seven years but he ended up getting a cold, that wouldn't go away. He went to the Dr. and they told him he had leukemia. He was in the hospital for three months, he did chemo and eventually went into remission. He unexpectedly died in his sleep, on a Thanksgiving morning. What a way to spend the holidays. Christmas sucked.... until I opened a gift that my little sister had made for me. Unbeknownst to me, she had my dads Bible. He had made markings all the way through it with red ink. For example, at the first page of the 'Song of Solomon' was a red arrow with the words "READ: Son-in-laws", at the beginning of Job he had written "This is me." She made photo copies of these pages and made them part of the scrapbook. She had also found a letter to us, that he had written a few months before he had died. Talk about something precious.

Imagine just wallowing in grief, and then finding a letter only intended for us - after his death. It said that he loved us very much, but that there was one who loved us beyond anything imaginable, and that if we ever wanted to see him again, we would get our lives right with Christ. He said that he had been shown heaven twice and for us to never worry about putting flowers on his grave because he wouldn't be there.

Jesus said it - "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." The apostles would have never went out and preached and teached had they not first believed. When they finally received the Holy Spirit - it went beyond belief, in fact he became something so precious, that they willingly laid down their lives for him. They went from faith to being convinced in the moment, in the twinkling of an eye. The apostles works have followed them and the saying one sows and one reaps has come to pass.

My dad planted a little seed - just a few simple words "If you ever want to see me again...." because he so strongly believed in something. If he were here today - he would tell you all his suffering was worth it, if that's what it took for me to understand where he was coming from.

So I too, asked God for something. I just wanted the truth. I knew Jesus had said, that anyone who would not receive the kingdom of God like a little child would never enter it. I went to bed that night and instead of falling asleep, I stayed awake. I put away every single one of my preconceived notions I had about the Bible away and humbled myself like a child, then I asked him for the truth. I had a hard time staying awake, then I remembered Jesus asking Peter, James and John, in the Garden of Gethsemane to watch him pray for just one hour and how they kept falling asleep but that wasn't what Jesus wanted. He wanted them to stay awake and "Watch! Always remember - 'the Spirit is willing but the body is weak.'

Now, I could give very powerful testimony right now, but there are some things that are just too precious and these things must remain with me.

But Miriam, I can tell by your posts you have toiled greatly around the word of God. If we were all likened unto trees - his word is the best fertilizer we could ever hope for. So what else does a tree need to grow properly? Water. The gift of God is living water. If you paralyze yourself into a corner where it's impossible for you to believe, that this living water was only meant for people 2000 years ago you will remain paralyzed. The gift of God doesn't come in a pamphlet and it doesn't come out of a book - it comes out of his right hand. Remember what John the Baptist, and then Jesus after his water baptism preached, "The kingdom of heaven is near." The door is right in front of you. Ask, seek, knock. You know how to ask, you know how to seek and now you know how to knock. It's always been right there in front of you.

Luke 11:11-13 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?"

Your flesh counts for nothing, so don't count on. Spirit is everything though and it's everything Jesus stood for - the Spirit of Truth.

Everyone listen - real miracles happen through sanctification.







[edit on 26-8-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
But Miriam, I can tell by your posts you have toiled greatly around the word of God. If we were all likened unto trees - his word is the best fertilizer we could ever hope for. So what else does a tree need to grow properly? Water. The gift of God is living water. If you paralyze yourself into a corner where it's impossible for you to believe, that this living water was only meant for people 2000 years ago you will remain paralyzed.


why would believing that certain miracles are no longer worked paralyze me?



WHY CERTAIN MIRACLES NO LONGER OCCUR

Various kinds of miracles are mentioned in the Bible. (Exodus 7:19-21; 1 Kings 17:1-7; 18:22-38; 2 Kings 5:1-14; Matthew 8:24-27; Luke 17:11-19; John 2:1-11; 9:1-7) Many of these miracles served to identify Jesus as the Messiah, and they proved that he had God’s backing. Jesus’ early followers displayed miraculous gifts, such as speaking in tongues and discernment of inspired utterances. (Acts 2:5-12; 1 Corinthians 12:28-31) Such miraculous gifts were useful for the Christian congregation during its infancy. How so?

Well, copies of the Scriptures were few. Usually, only the rich possessed scrolls or books of any sort. In pagan lands, there was no knowledge of the Bible or of its Author, Jehovah. Christian teaching had to be conveyed by word of mouth. The miraculous gifts were useful in showing that God was using the Christian congregation.

But Paul explained that these gifts would pass away once they were no longer needed. “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.”—1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

Today, people have access to Bibles, as well as concordances and encyclopedias. Over six million trained Christians are assisting others to gain divine knowledge based on the Bible. Thus, miracles are no longer necessary to attest to Jesus Christ as God’s appointed Deliverer or to provide proof that Jehovah is backing his servants.


do you really need to touch jesus´ wounds to believe?

john 20:[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

remember the pharisees demanded too to see miracles and wonders.

my faith in god doesnt depend on wonders that the bible was very clear would be done away with



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


Myrtales, you just blessed my day with your story and I wanted to say thank you for sharing it with us. Sorry about your father, loosing him so young. I know how hard it is to lose a close member of your family. I know it has been years for you, but I also know, that longing never ever goes away... Know this, he is in your midst, your papa and the Lord....Peace



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


1 Corinthians 13:8-10

Miriam, hello

Paul is telling us that when Christ returns these gifts will cease, not before.

He tells us that these gifts, that we cannot fully use, we will have no need of when that which is full (Christ) returns. The argument is that this is referring to a Christian becoming mature and no longer requiring these is obsolete IMHO for two reasons

1) no one can come to a complete understanding and will not be complete until Christ returns.

2) There will always be new Christians.

david



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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miriam0566
1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

when the bible was completed, these miracles were no longer needed. one could deduce the true faith by reading searching the scriptures.

I’m sorry but you have made no correlation between the verse you quoted and the explanation of the verse. No where in that verse does it explain why we are unable to perform the same miracles as Jesus. It in no way explains why miracles are no longer needed. It seems more likely you’ve just used some random verse, hoping I wouldn’t take the time to read it. It makes no mention of miracles or the act of healing what so ever.


but it was done away with, why?

You still haven’t given a reason why we aren’t able to perform the same miracles as Jesus – a quick question, has there ever been an event in modern day where any type of miracle through prayer has been recorded? It doesn’t have to be healing it can be anything…



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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I have already led you to the answer.

I'll do so a THIRD time. Learn what "early and latter rains" means.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I looked it up on google and have yet to understand how it's meant to answer the question. Maybe I missed something while reading about it, why don't you just explain it yourself



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by drevill
we will have no need of when that which is full (Christ) returns.


your entire argument is based on this assumption.

the scripture here is refering to the bible, why?

1 - it was incomplete at the time this was written.

2 - 2 tim 3:[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

this scripture shows that all we need to come to an understanding of god's will is the bible. this has shown true time and time again. the bible touches on every subject of consequence and gives us a crystal clear picture of what is required of us for salvation. that is the important thing right now.

3 - revelations is the last part of the bible, even the apostles patiently awaited the revelation of jesus. even the word revelation means to reveal.


The argument is that this is referring to a Christian becoming mature and no longer requiring these is obsolete IMHO for two reasons


actually, thats not what i think. it is specifically related to the bible.


1) no one can come to a complete understanding and will not be complete until Christ returns.


understanding, yes i agree, but the bible is complete. even if you dont understand it, reading it can give you a clear picture of god's will



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
No where in that verse does it explain why we are unable to perform the same miracles as Jesus.


ill highlight a few parts to help you see it.

1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

gifts of the holy spirit would considered "in part". they were filling a need. when that need was met (that which is perfect) then these gifts would be done away with.

i thought the scripture was very clear


It in no way explains why miracles are no longer needed.


ive shown that a few time in this threa, but you dont think its important to ask "why?"


It makes no mention of miracles or the act of healing what so ever.


no it doesnt, but acts of healing are considered part of the gift of the holy spirit. so there is no reason to believe that they arent included in what this verse is saying



You still haven’t given a reason why we aren’t able to perform the same miracles as Jesus –


because it is no longer needed (see my post on why miracles were needed)


a quick question, has there ever been an event in modern day where any type of miracle through prayer has been recorded? It doesn’t have to be healing it can be anything…


not that i know of.

that in itself should tell you something.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


sorry Miriam

i meant to say that the argument i meant is one that is used in geenral

David



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by drevill
 


oops sorry about that



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by andre18

has there ever been an event in modern day where any type of miracle through prayer has been recorded? It doesn’t have to be healing it can be anything…


well i can think of a couple

The state of isreal being one. during a war that the Jews would have prayed for safety they get a land of their own again after thousands of years.

Riding the Storm Out: A Tsunami Miracle



It was at that moment, faced with certain death, that a Scripture verse from the Bible, from the book of Isaiah, popped into his mind.

He said, "And I just stretched my hands…." He showed us how he put his arms toward the wave. "And I said, 'Based on the strength of the Scriptures, where it says that when the enemy comes in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall raise up a standard against it." Sanders said he was speaking to the wave when he said, "I command you [wave] in the name of Jesus, stop!'"

Sanders said, what happened next was a miracle. The wall of water that was seconds away from engulfing them began to slow down.

He explained, "It became sluggish, [yet] it was straining against what I thought at the moment was some invisible wall."


www.cbn.com...


david



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by andre18

miriam0566
1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

when the bible was completed, these miracles were no longer needed. one could deduce the true faith by reading searching the scriptures.

I’m sorry but you have made no correlation between the verse you quoted and the explanation of the verse. No where in that verse does it explain why we are unable to perform the same miracles as Jesus. It in no way explains why miracles are no longer needed. It seems more likely you’ve just used some random verse, hoping I wouldn’t take the time to read it. It makes no mention of miracles or the act of healing what so ever.


but it was done away with, why?

You still haven’t given a reason why we aren’t able to perform the same miracles as Jesus – a quick question, has there ever been an event in modern day where any type of miracle through prayer has been recorded? It doesn’t have to be healing it can be anything…


Hey bro, bless you. I want you to hear me and do with it as you will.

No one will ever heal people like the way you would like, not now. You have to understand, that most of these fine people will say "if God wills it". Now, they believe that and I think it's Good, because of their belief alone. This belief is worth more than the healing you will never see. You will never see that kind of healing, because it never happened...in the way you understand. The only ones who will do these things are the Jesus's called "Doctors". Why do people wonder why they can't do these things, when they don't even know that, they don't "breath without him", talk without him, drive without him. We are the guests in the body on a one way trip with "self existent is salvation" to our next destination.

He judges no one, because "all judgment has been COMMITTED to the son"...ben....bane....Mc....Mac...Fitz....Manson....Son....Yet he is the son, the one and only. This one son isn't a trinity, or a tetragram, but a world of living parts. His name is always changing having a new one tacked on every minute or so. I would say that is a name only "he will Know"...being 6 billion places wide and being a 10th of the 60 billion of all time.

I've riddled this post with comments. They are really no more important then any others, but no one seems to be seeing some basic things. The healing you are talking about is not what Jesus did....simply put. 90% of the world thinks it is as you think. I did too. I spoke in tongues. I gave words of wisdom, I "laid hands"....I was part of the big show, yet oblivious to it.
The real Jesus woke me up with words spoken in my ears, he in private opened the scriptures to me and gave them meaning from his own mouth. I carry the witness of "self existent is salvation". Jesus isn't even his name...God means "Good Luck" "Fortune". Last I checked, the creator hates that name. "My name is blasphemed daily"....He calls his name over you.....Your his name...do you understand that?

I'm not going to look up every word and post it here. Just to get through one verse takes up to an hour. Jesus served people, because he is the body. He doesn't let his left hand know what his right does. Cure in Greek means Therapy (therapos). We even derive Therapy from the word. To heal means "to wait on menially". A word not used often in the English, but in the original is everywhere. "Perceive" it is replaced by "lo!" Perceive means "NOW understand" or "separate it mentally".

When the spirit comes upon you, you loose all of the prefabbed meanings, cause you "don't have a choice". The tongues of fire that are cloven, literally means..."You will hear YOUR OWN VOICE speaking with you". This is not daydreaming or echo's of your mind. Your mind separates from you and begins speaking to you. This is called "Schizophrenia". Every prophet had it, Jesus had it, John had it....It is called "to split the mind" or having your conscience seared with a hot "iron". The sum of your parts are a lot more intelligent then people know. There is info sealed in each person...and we are racing to the prize of unraveling this "scroll".

All of this stuff is emotionalism and this is exactly how they fill the pews, roes, seats...whatever. There are good people in these places, but these places themselves are the work of the adversary. The Christ people pray to blindly is an Idol, hanging on another Idol. Christ was never supposed to be one guy...."Out of Tsion, SAVIOURS will come"....Many Saviours....All Christ.

"I will not deal with you as a man"...is what the Lord says to the prophets

Do you know why prayers such as "When will you rouse from your wine, when will you remember?" or "Reveal your arm, oh Lord.." are spoken?

How about, "Then G-d remembered Noah" or "There sin I will remember no more"....Does he need to remember? Even the son of man knows not when he will come....because, until he remembers who he is...the world moves along...generation after generation. When, Jesus, said my Kingdom is not of this world....he wasn't speaking of a different place, but a different time....A time when people would remember his teachings and practice them. He is already with us...emmanuel....

G-d doesn't impose anything other then life. He gives life. We should give life...literally, figuratively, help one another. That is all G-d wants for us....Like saying, "baby steps"..."let me remember this...left foot...right foot...walking"...ding,ding,ding...another great light shines......"A,B, C,.....Alpha/Bet"....ding,ding,ding....another great light shines....till the darkness is consumed and he remembers death no more. Give it another thousand years, things will be different then. "With God all things are possible"....but not instant for the most part. Literally and Figuratively....this is a parable.

The adversary doesn't need to do a thing, every church with the big music worship, baptismal, cell groups, prayer teams, Youth leaders are "his bag baby"...."One book titled, Swedish made steeple pump and me...this sort of thing is my bag....baby" "by Judas Towers (Iscariot)"

For 30 years of life, did Judas Trade remembering eternity...

Peace



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by andre18
No where in that verse does it explain why we are unable to perform the same miracles as Jesus.


ill highlight a few parts to help you see it.

1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

gifts of the holy spirit would considered "in part". they were filling a need. when that need was met (that which is perfect) then these gifts would be done away with.

i thought the scripture was very clear


It in no way explains why miracles are no longer needed.


ive shown that a few time in this threa, but you dont think its important to ask "why?"


It makes no mention of miracles or the act of healing what so ever.


no it doesnt, but acts of healing are considered part of the gift of the holy spirit. so there is no reason to believe that they arent included in what this verse is saying



You still haven’t given a reason why we aren’t able to perform the same miracles as Jesus –


because it is no longer needed (see my post on why miracles were needed)


a quick question, has there ever been an event in modern day where any type of miracle through prayer has been recorded? It doesn’t have to be healing it can be anything…


not that i know of.

that in itself should tell you something.


Indeed, when someone is lacking in part, gifts are given to compensate for the "mark missed" or sin....."and their righteousness is from the Lord". The righteousness/Justice=equity is from the Lord. The spirit keeps them chaste, because "It pleased the Lord to bruise him, and by his strips we are healed".
I can witness this truth to you. The spirit beats you into submission and these beatings most of the gifts. "Is not the life more then the body?" "....to unloose every form of bondage, to share your "bread" with the needy, that you would even deny your own flesh to cover the naked one"....

Peace



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 05:48 AM
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But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

gifts of the holy spirit would considered "in part". they were filling a need. when that need was met (that which is perfect) then these gifts would be done away with.

i thought the scripture was very clear


No, not at all. ‘in part’ has no resemblance to gifts – how can you possible get that kind of meaning? In part: partly, partially, to some extent, relatively etc…….. does not mean ‘gifts of the holy spirit’

I’m sure this would make more sense – when there is something perfect, then that which is ‘partly perfect’ shall no longer exist. (Or something like that)

So you’re still to answer why we can’t perform the same miracles as Jesus.


ive shown that a few time in this threa, but you dont think its important to ask "why?"

I’m asking now, and your response is a quote that has nothing to do with miracles or healing or anything that could possible support your side of the debate.


no it doesnt, but acts of healing are considered part of the gift of the holy spirit. so there is no reason to believe that they arent included in what this verse is saying


How are acts of healing considered part of the gift of the holy spirit – what’s your reasoning for this? Also as I’ve explained how is ‘the gift of the holy spirit’ mean ‘in part’? Your posts are too brief. You need to explain why these words mean what they supposedly do.


not that i know of.


Well drevill thought of one. “The state of isreal…. during a war that the Jews would have prayed for safety they get a land of their own again after thousands of years"

The reason I asked is because if miracles can happen through prayer (like the Jews praying for Israel) then yes that’s right, miracles can still happen through god. If miracles like that can happen 60 years ago then miracles like healing amputees should happen as well……….



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