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Why won’t god heal amputees?

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posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
amazing you get people like ashleyd and so on after her


My post was submitted one minute after your closure with another member.




Don't shoot!





posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


happy to stand corrected, again. sorry about that, i hope i didnt shoot ya up too much. :shk:



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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ok, tons of scriptures on jesus' healing, and there are a few scriptures about apostles healing too. but the real question is why? and why it doesnt happen today.

1st, jesus' healing was to show that he was the son of god. the miracles were to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was the messiah. the thing about healing is that it cant be faked. the televangelists on TV, they fake it, and if you look hard enough into their claims usually the "sick" werent sick at all, or they were healed temporarily (like and hour or two, im sure the excitement of their shows helps get the adrenaline up). jesus' healing was thorough, in front of critics, to the point where they had to admit it. john 11:47

2nd, jesus' healing was a sample of what was to be done in the new world. one example is when jesus resurrected people. he told his disciples "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice," john 5:28. again, further fulfillment later.

3rd, the apostles were given ability to heal to help with establishing the christian congregation. jews needed a convincing arguement to show them that god was with the christians.

so healing wasnt just about the simple act of healing, it was also to prove that god was with them.

but it was done away with, why?

1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

when the bible was completed, these miracles were no longer needed. one could deduce the true faith by reading searching the scriptures.

besides, certain things needed to be allowed until the day god steps in. if suffering as a whole was to be permited alittle while longer, then of what good is it to heal someone who will get sick again? or to resurrect if they will die again? why not wait until the time when all these things are done away with permanently?

in short, why dont christians heal amputees? because they cant, they are not given the power. if the claim they have the power, but cant heal an amputee, then they are lying simple as that.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Miriam - you are wrong.

Miracles do occur. Just because you haven't experienced one doesn't mean others won't. God is alive and if I could make you see that, a miracle would occur because you would see things with a new set of eyes - spiritual ones.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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are you saying we should ignore 1 cor 13?


matt 24:[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



2 thess 2:[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,



[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.


are these people performing miracles gaining something from it? are they hypocritical?

if these miracles are god sent, then why do some who are good suffer and dont receive a miracle?



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566





but it was done away with, why?

1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

when the bible was completed, these miracles were no longer needed. one could deduce the true faith by reading searching the scriptures.



this is a contraversial statement, many different beliefs on this one.

paul was unclear in much of what he wrote, very confusing author, 2 peter 3 16.

pauls writings can be distorted to say alot of things.

was the completion of the bible the end of prophecy or healing, or miracles in general?

i say no, but its up to your interpratation.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81

was the completion of the bible the end of prophecy or healing, or miracles in general?


i see what your saying, but this is one of those situations when the result is obvious.

all one would have to do is look around and see if there is anyone who follows the bible without hypocracy, who is healing people (genuinely healing them) for free.

so far i havent found people. anyone ive seen who "heals" does it for financial gain, and usually they arent exampls for the christian faith.

another example covered in 1 corinthians is speaking in tongues. tons of churches claim to do it, but i have yet to see one where the "tongue" being spoken was an actual language, and not some cryptic slurrings.

yes there is mentioning of time when people were needed to translation certain things said, but there is every reason to believe that the apostles were given the ability to speak different languages. this wasnt something that wore off either.


acts 2:[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


you just dont find this in the world anymore.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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i see what you are saying also, but if you look around you shouldnt hear about people with these gifts, you only hear of the ones that make money from it.if someone can actually heal people right now it would be through god, so the person that can do it shouldnt say they can do it, or so i think.

tongues, thats a tough one for me, i have a friend that speaks in tongues, and he gets mad, well more like uncomfortable when i bring up the same things you mentioned. he is my friend and i know he wouldnt lie to me, but he says he speaks in tongues. i dont go for it but he does. see the problem ? he says if someone speaks in tongues at his church then everyone is silent until there is an interpratation.

tongues, in my opinion means languages, like if you were at church and someone came in speaking a language noone else could speak, the gift of language would be given so this person could be understood, interpretation and language should go hand in hand right ?

the gifts are contraversial, always seek the answer from god.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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acts 2:[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?


you just dont find this in the world anymore.




i have actually heard of this in modern times, whether or not it was staged, that is the question.

if i can find some articles and/or video i will post it.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by pureevil81]

[edit on 24-8-2008 by pureevil81]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by andre18
 

0


One of the first reports for limb transplantations is related with a healing miracle in the 6th century A.D in Rome by Saints Kosmas and Damian. According to our religious tradition, Pope Filix had constructed a church, which was called Miranta and was dedicated to the two Saints. Joustinian was deacone in Miranta. He suffered from cancer of his one leg. He prayed to the two Saints to help him. One night, while he was sleeping, he saw in a dream that Kosmas and Damian prayed and mutilated his lower limb. Then, they replaced the amputated leg with a new healthy leg of an Ethiopian who had died recently of old age and was buried in the cemetery of Saint Peters’ of The Lions. When Joustinian woke up, he was feeling better and he saw that one of his leg was black. He made the miracle widely known and many people visited the cemetery. There, they saw that the amputated limb of Joustinian was into the tomb of the Ethiopian. The miracle-an example of a cataveric transplant with a very long warm ischaemia time-was portraid in several churches, as in Burgos, Spain, and Saint Mark’s church in Florence. (4)


david



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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The only case I have known of personally (and this is the only one worth mentioning as I don't like second-hand stories) was of a man who prophesied [what was at the time to be] my future marriage down to the most minute and unexpected detail. Anyways, he lost one of his arms from the elbow down in a gas explosion. While in the hospital it was completely miraculously restored post-amputation. Is this story true? I don't know. But that is what the man told me and it was confirmed by his wife and friends to me who were at the hospital with him after the accident and had been praying with him at the time of the healing.

I do not doubt the power of God to do such a thing. If He created us, He can fix us. If He can create the universe, He can restore an arm. So, it was very interesting to hear his account first hand and the accounts of the witnesses. My knowledge of God doesn't hang in the balance of this event but it was interesting.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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the thing about it is the inherit unfairness.

like you take a man who survives a plane crash, he claims it was a miracle that he walked away, but what about the other 100 or so people?

even the apostle was not healed of his ¨thorn¨ why?

i think because miracles have a very specific purpose.

either they show

1. that salvation is from god and not man. (isrealites were delivered not by their might, but by god´s from egyption tyranny, daniel was saved by god several times. but you´ll notice, all those times, it wasnt just the saving, it served as a witness to observers)

or 2. they serve as an example. jesus´healing was an example for what his kingdom will do in the future.

if someone claims to have been healed by god, and it doesnt fall into those two categories, i just find it hard to believe that its anymore than coincidence or good care.

i mean you mention the guy with the arm, but the fact still remains, he went to the hospital and received care. does that mean that his recovery is an act of god or is it that he had a good surgeon?

remember, jesus never performed surgery to heal anyone.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


miriam said: "are you saying we should ignore 1 cor 13?"

No, I'm saying you are over emphasizing 1 Corinthians 13:8 and forgetting everything else he said. He is addressing a group of people who have already been "sanctified." These are people who don't need babies milk anymore and can handle solid food. These people have already received the gift of God and he is trying to nurture them, with love. He explains that by God's will that people are called to be apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. He then lists gifts; wisdom, knowledge, faith, etc. All gifts are from the living spirit and a person should always desire the greater gifts.

miriam said: "are these people performing miracles gaining something from it? are they hypocritical?"

I have my own opinions about people like Benny Hinn, but who am I to judge him. He sure comes off, as flakey to me, but what do I know I'm just a little old housewife from Ohio.Lol

miriam said: "if these miracles are god sent, then why do some who are good suffer and dont receive a miracle?"

Because Jesus said clearly that while he was in the world, he was the light of the world and that he needed to work while there was light, that darkness was coming when no one could work. The work of God is to believe in the one he sent. You can't half believe it and expect to see miracles. We are in a war! It's darkness vs light. It's up to the individual to overcome darkness. Overcoming gives a person, the right to the tree of life, not to be hurt by the second death, hidden manna, a white stone with a new name written on it known only to you, authority over nations, dressed in white and acknowledged before angels, to be made like a pillar in the temple of God (never again to leave it), he will write on them the name of his God, and the name of the city of his God, and he will write on you his own new name.

But you can't half believe because it makes you lukewarm. His light is the primordial light of creation - the very light that withrew from Adam and Eve, the moment they fell and when his light was no longer on them - they knew they were naked. Darkness had arrived.

He councels all. "You do not REALIZE that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I councel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent."

What you think happens to you, when you die miriam - is wrong. He's already on his throne. Your tomorrow has already arrived and you just don't see it. It's all over except to merge the Spiritual kingdom with the physical world - the way it was intended from creation. The kingdom of heaven is advancing and it can't be stopped. The angel told Daniel, that many would go to and fro and knowledge would be increased and many would be purifed and made white and would shine. The vision happened on the Tigris River - and that is not where he meant people would be travelling back and forth from - he was talking about heaven and all the witnesses who have brought back the knowledge of the other side - the spiritual side.

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If ANYONE hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. To him that overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne."

He wants people to realize he's been here all along. He's a living God with living power. Bad things happen to good people, but remember God said Adam and Even were good and they were driven away from paradise for not listening. Jesus came to let you back in. He is the way. The only way. Why don't people hear him?


[edit on 24-8-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



but it was done away with, why?


Look at my previous post.

Hint: "Early and latter rains"

Bonus Hint: "rains" = Holy Spirit





[edit on 24-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 





you just dont find this in the world anymore.


Becasue we are in the period after the "early rains", and before the "latter rains".

Awww heck, I can't watch a sister in the Lord stumble on this anymore:


With Agape Love Miriam:

Mystery of the early and latter rains




posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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Man sinned and rebelled against God. So why should he help anyone? Everyone deserves hell - period.


Again I come to this huge problem. Man didn't sin. ONE man sinned and now we all pay for it.

I also don't like second hand stories. That limb miracle from the 6th century? Can we verify the validity at all? I listen to alot of miracle stories and believe for myself that coincidence has alot to do for many of these cases. Jesus could have been trying to show his awesome power with the one survivor in 100 story but isn't it also possible that there was a coincidence? That whole butterfly affect comes to mind.

Don't take this personal but just in case there is a reader who doesn't know it...here it is as a paraphrase.

A butterfly flaps it's wings in Asia causing a deadly hurricaine in America's waters. Essentially they are saying the chain links and the smallest even can effect the biggest.

So my question is what if in that plane crash that man who lived just happened to be in the exact position he needed to be in to survive?

Once again...I agree that God has probably touched many of you but miracles are a bit much for me. God cured my cancer says the lady. Well what about the drugs and chemo?

-Kyo



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
He explains that by God's will that people are called to be apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. He then lists gifts; wisdom, knowledge, faith, etc. All gifts are from the living spirit and a person should always desire the greater gifts.


yes but then he clearly states that these gifts will be done away with.

why does this harmonize with the bible?

2 thess 2:[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

alot of people like to use this passage show that god lies, but the fact is, it is a horrible translation.

if you look at the original greek, basically god allows satan to work until the christ comes and reveals satan for who he is. verse 11 is very clear that god allows man to deceive themselves into actually believing their own lies (again, horribly translated into english).

verse 9 is most interesting to me. most people (christians even) have this image of satan as just a tempter. an agent of god that is there to test us from time to time. but this verse paints a different picture. it shows that satan actively and in an organized way works to deceive mankind. deceive it from what?

the worse possible thing a christian can do is believe the lie. with all the denominations and false doctrine, how easy is it to get caught up and loose our place.

jesus prove to the jews he was the messiah, both by words and in works. the miracles of healing too were irrefutable proof of that too. dont you think satan would use parlor tricks to try to establish his own legitimacy?


The work of God is to believe in the one he sent. You can't half believe it and expect to see miracles. We are in a war! It's darkness vs light. It's up to the individual to overcome darkness. Overcoming gives a person, the right to the tree of life, not to be hurt by the second death, hidden manna, a white stone with a new name written on it known only to you, authority over nations, dressed in white and acknowledged before angels, to be made like a pillar in the temple of God (never again to leave it), he will write on them the name of his God, and the name of the city of his God, and he will write on you his own new name.


the work is more than believing. the apostles were very busy preaching and teaching. the darkness jesus was referring to a time when jesus and the apostles were not on the earth. during this time the church took a twisted turn, adapting pagan doctrines, getting in bed with political entities. how can the gospel be spread when the church is carrying out inquisitions?

why would god allow a church who was acting like a harlot to perform gifts of the holy spirit? god is not hypocritical.


But you can't half believe because it makes you lukewarm.
this is the point here. my faith is not lukewarm. i know full well that god is capable of anything. but miracles have their place. ALL times divine intervention occurred in the bible, it was to the glory of god, not to the glory of the one healed. God only intervenes when it is in agreement with his purpose.

ill give you an example of divine intervention. jesus said that the gospel would be preached to the entire world and then the end would come. if these are the last days, then preaching would be a dominant part of god's will. this is simply because he wants all to be saved.

a few years ago i was having problems regarding my faith, certain passages i couldnt understand because they conflicted with dogma and then i also saw so much hypocrisy in the church. so i prayed. i basically prayed to god to set my path straight and to help me understand what i wasnt getting. i prayed to show me his will. very specifically i wanted to know why god permited suffering. no time at all, i had a knock on the door. the christian offered me a pamphlet called "why does god permit suffering"

the pamphlet showed scriptures that answered a question i had been grappling with all my life. all i had to do was humbly ask for the answer.

god's will right now is to give everyone an opportunity to know the truth about him and his will.this is why the greek scriptures emphasize preaching. him intervening in this particular case is in harmony with his will.

im very sick right now. should i expect god to intervene and cure me? if god didnt intervene for paul and his "thorn", then why should i expect anything? god's will regarding me is fulfilled. i have come to know god better than before and have spread his message as best as i can. in the future new world, god promises to cure me, and not just temporarily liked jesus cured while on earth. those people still grew old and died. but god promises me through the bible that my illness will be cured permanently

isaiah 33:24



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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I wished to rehash the above post as it has important aspects of struggles in faith that many of us can relate to...


Originally posted by miriam0566
i basically prayed to god to set my path straight and to help me understand what i wasnt getting. i prayed to show me his will. very specifically i wanted to know why god permited suffering. no time at all, i had a knock on the door. the christian offered me a pamphlet called "why does god permit suffering"

the pamphlet showed scriptures that answered a question i had been grappling with all my life. all i had to do was humbly ask for the answer.



Originally posted by miriam0566
God only intervenes when it is in agreement with his purpose.



Originally posted by miriam0566
god's will right now is to give everyone an opportunity to know the truth about him and his will.



Originally posted by miriam0566
i have come to know god better than before and have spread his message as best as i can.


A post of faith, from one who is not bitter, or a fair weathered believer. Spreading his message so you have done, and indeed the path of knocking and it shall be made open to you has been shown.

How odd it is, I went searching for a passage regarding the irrevocable appointment by God in reference to my reflection on your post and somehow with the flip of a couple pages went right to the part on pauls thorn.

Your post, got my attention by its mere process and your understanding through a trial of faith. Tell me....

Do you dream?

Peace



[edit on 25-8-2008 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by HIFIGUY
 


im sorry highfi, but i dont understand you post so im not entirely sure what you are saying. (i think i do but im afraid to respond because its foggy)

im sorry it may just be that im tired. (remember english is not my first language)

what do you mean by dream?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Now Jesus said that anyone who truly believes in him will be able to perform the same type of miracles he does and even greater miracles.

What is the greater miracle? Healing an ear, or leading someone to Christ that they may recieve eternal life? You're simply focusing on the here and now as if that was all that there was to existance. Is the miracle only greater because you personally get instant gratification out of it? That's shallow.



So reattaching arms or legs or ears or noses or any other body part should be a simple matter of faith. So why aren’t Christians doing it?

I can see it now. A religion where it's members could be healed from any disease or sickness just by asking. Who wouldn't want to be part of that group? Where's the need for faith in a religion like that? Without faith it is impossible to please God. Yes, in your perfect world Christians would never die and eveyone would want to be a Christians for the medical benefits alone.

You're forgetting one of the most basic fundamentals of the Bible. After sinning man was forbidden from eating the tree of life so he wouldn't live forever in a sinful state. Yet you want eternal infinite healing in the bodies we're in? No thank you.

Lastly, your demands sound like a kid demanding candy so they will behave while you finish shopping. Yes, if only you could get the instant gratification of miraculous healing. You'd listen to God then, wouldn't you? People like you will be the first to believe the antichrist when he arrives and does something cool that appeases your demands.




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