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Field Surgery

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posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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When everything goes to hell doctors will be in short supply. So unless you plan on giving yourself up and going to a Fema camp you should learn basic surgery. Now i'm not talking open heart or brain surgery, just basic anatomy and surgical techniques. Our world will be full of dangers from nature to two legged predators, and if you can't remove a bullet from someones leg properly, you'll turn a simple entry wound into a death sentence.



Here is a link to some medical manuals.


bergware.net.../Z101321@@c59672.p129000.1.t1219422438GDNR0527




posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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I know you post these for a post SHTF world, so i'll be brief.

Make sure you get a Dr or skilled medic in yuor survivor group, treat them well, give them easy tasks and wrap them in cotton wool. Feed them and make little demands of them, so when the time comes they will have their wits and strength about them.

Medics and Drs will be the futures elite, as they alone will be able to keep us alive if it goes wrong.

Point 2? learn every thing you can now. Go tio nurse school, go to Paramedic school, just learn some thing more than 'i think this is a knee bone'.

regards, Daniel.



posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by Dan Tanna
 
Good idea, but my point is not everyone will have access to medical personnel. That is why i say everyone needs to learn so they don't end up killing their friends.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
reply to post by Dan Tanna
 
Good idea, but my point is not everyone will have access to medical personnel. That is why i say everyone needs to learn so they don't end up killing their friends.



I think that is the point that Dan Tanna has made. I certainly wouldnt want a 'layperson' having 'a go' at surgery on me, thankyou very much.

I like Dan are 'in the know' when it comes to medical knowledge and I would still be very reluctant 'to have a go' when it comes to field surgery.

The point is, that the non-medical trained people will end up killing their friends unfortunately. If it is not by the actual procedure it will be by other means, ie infection, sceptacemia, shock etc.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

As Dan said, if you really want to know, then go to Paramedic/Nursing/Medical School. The reason it takes a few years to learn these jobs, is because it is a complex subject .... its not all just hack n slash.

[edit on 23/8/08 by Wotan]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Wotan nailed it.

Surgery is a very complex and demanding technique heavy area of expertise.

Books will not teach you all you need to know - practise on real living humans with an expert mentor surgeon is needed.

I would not let any one who was 'book learnt' come within a mile of me, bullet wound or no bullet wound.

It would serve me right for sticking my arse in the air when bullets were flying.

spelling edit#

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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I see your guy's points, but some knowledge is better than none. Would you rather die of lead poisoning or bleeding to death? I personnally wouldn't. And i'm not just a "layperson" i was a paramedic for two years. I stopped because of a car accident that had kids in it. One died on scene and i couldn't deal with the fact that no matter what i did she died anyways. I know thats part of the job, but still.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
I see your guy's points, but some knowledge is better than none. Would you rather die of lead poisoning or bleeding to death? I personnally wouldn't. And i'm not just a "layperson" i was a paramedic for two years. I stopped because of a car accident that had kids in it. One died on scene and i couldn't deal with the fact that no matter what i did she died anyways. I know thats part of the job, but still.


I can see your point to an extent, but I do advise caution as some medical procedures are really not for the layman and no amount of reading is going to make one a professional. Thats why i advise a proper recognised medical type course.

It takes Nurses and Doctors many years of training, for a reason ...... its a complex subject and mistakes are usually buried.

Sorry if I sound negative here or 'elitist' but doing surgery or some other medical procedures is not for the amateurs.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by Wotan
 
But unfortunately we don't have years. All the signs are pointing to months.
At least that is my opinion from what i have been seeing.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
reply to post by Wotan
 
But unfortunately we don't have years. All the signs are pointing to months.
At least that is my opinion from what i have been seeing.



I am seeing the same thing coming in from web spiders. 30% are saying 1year, 30 are saying 3 years and the remainder 3-7. Its pretty weird. I would say 10-15 or more but the man on the street thinks very soon.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
reply to post by Wotan
 
But unfortunately we don't have years. All the signs are pointing to months.
At least that is my opinion from what i have been seeing.



Well, Paramedic training doesnt take years. In the UK i believe it is 16 weeks unless you do a degree. I dont know about the states.

Nurse training in the UK is 3 years unless you have had prior experience/qualifications as a HCA.

Doctors training is about 5/6 years in the UK.

In addition, Offshore Medics/Dive Medics is a further 4 to 6 weeks training - must be a qualified Paramedic/Nurse/Doctor to begin with.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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You don't have to perform surgery to save lives.

Learn how to apply a tourniquet, treat shock, dress a wound, perform a chest decompression, clear an airway, safely move a casualty, and establish an IV and you can keep most injuries alive until you can find medical personnel.

A few simple skills and attentive care can keep even the most dire patients alive for hours. Saves tons of lives in Iraq.

Just remember, brain fluid smells like banannas and spinal injuries cause erections.



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by WhiteOneActual
Just remember, brain fluid smells like banannas and spinal injuries cause erections.


Put that way, I don't think I'll ever forget that little nugget of information



posted on Aug, 27 2008 @ 09:30 PM
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Do your googling. I passed up on this chance but when I went to massage therapy school we were given options as to where we could dissect human bodies. The class was around 300 dollars. One cadaver dissected by groups of 5.

Nothing gives you knowledge like being involved first hand. The dissection was short two. Like weekend seminars.



posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by WhiteOneActual
 
I guess i get a lot of spinal injuries

Sometimes people will be too far away from any surgeons, so the basics will be needed. Unless you want to be a prisoner in a FEMA camp



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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Well I can't disagree with you. I wouldn't mind picking up a few extra skills. You never know when you'll need it, especially in my line of work.

And don't get me started on the friggin' FEMA camps....



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by WhiteOneActual
Well I can't disagree with you. I wouldn't mind picking up a few extra skills. You never know when you'll need it, especially in my line of work.

And don't get me started on the friggin' FEMA camps....


Kudos for you for doing what you do. My very best wishes to you and your people.

as for field surgery skills? well, i hope those books are damn good! I tink keeping your medical staff safe and well feds a good idea, so they don't leave for pastures greener in the event of STIX.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by Dan Tanna]



posted on Aug, 29 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by Dan Tanna
 
As long as people learn basic anatomy and can perform minor stuff that will save lives. Taking an EMT course is a quick and easy way to learn the basics about touniquets and stemming bloodloss, but people still need to know how to properly stitch someone up in case of a deeper wound.



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by Dan Tanna

Medics and Drs will be the futures elite, as they alone will be able to keep us alive if it goes wrong.



if history is any indication, the concept of 'elite' won't last long on the battlefield (think about the first time conscription was used in war, guess who won) and those in high regard will be


gunsmiths


and people who can churn out ammo, ie keep you alive by giving you power rather than fixing stuff that's already broken. a surgeon isn't really used to doing his job in the field and without anesthetics and an entire team of nurses and other MDs who help him, anyway.

i therefore maintain that fine motor skills combined with improvisation will become the best ticket to post SHTF surgery. do you know how orhtodox medicine treats wounds from fragmented bullets? yep, cutting a whole lot of tissue out. can you or should you do that in a society where disability is already a death sentence? if anything, people should take a look at wartorn countries, especially guerilla groups who have to rely on themselves.

today's system is designed from ground up so that it requires a slew of rare and therefore costly capabilities and materials in conjunction with a functioning infrastructure. a single piece of the puzzle won't do you any good if not become a liability all on its own.

i guess you don't visit the medical issues forum very often, otherwise you'd be more sceptical, because the meical field is a key industry and already 'elite'. why should it be of any help to you when you intend to turn away from the system?



posted on Aug, 30 2008 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by Long Lance
 


We are not talking about Medical Professionals being elite in the sense of being 'top dog'. We are saying that they will be essential personnel and much sought after post SHTF.

True, most Surgeons and other medical personnel are not used to field surgery but it wouldnt take long to adapt to it. That is not to say that some medical personnel are already used to it. The NHS has been supplying staff to the MOD medical directorate on secondments for a number of years and the MOD/NHS work alongside each other everyday and share the knowledge and skills.

Also, you seem to forget that some Paramedics/Nurses/Doctors that are involved in pre-hospital medicine are already 'working in the field'. Also there are many that give up their annual leave to volunteer to go to 3rd world countries in times of disaster to give medical aid or help in some medical programs.

There are many courses here in the UK for medical personnel to train in wilderness medicine or as offshore medics or expedition medics.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Long Lance
 


We are not talking about Medical Professionals being elite in the sense of being 'top dog'. We are saying that they will be essential personnel and much sought after post SHTF.


And that is why i say people need to learn those skills.
Medical personnel will be few and far between.



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