American Jobs Lost , Thanks , McCain !!!, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 1 times


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 07:52 AM by RaDios
reply to post by Scramjet76


To your last comment about tempering capitalism with some socialism: We should temper capitalism with social responsibility - not socialism! This has never worked and it never will. The more power you give to government, the more freedom the common man loses.

Look at history - governments are not good at self-limiting. What we can't forget is that in a democracy - the people ARE the government. We have allowed our politicians to go drunk with power. With only 20-30% of the eligible voters voting (on average throughout american history) we are facilitating their drunk!

People, like many here on ATS, who actually give a darn - are few and far between!


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 10:03 AM by marg6043
reply to post by poet1b


No, you may have it in the wrong side of justice, see, McCain justice is measure to whom fattens his pocket for campaign money.

See if I have such a wealthy donor like the people behind Airbus and I am hurting for money I would be kissing their butts and making sweet deals for them so my debt be erased.

Sorry but that is called corruption and the type of capitalism unrestricted that we have in American allows our politicians to become whores to big interest.

See our Obama candidate swore that he doesn't take money from oil companies, guess what he doesn't because is laws that prohibit that from happening but it doesn't stop him from getting more than hundred thousand dollars in donations from people that works for the oil and energy companies.

That is the extend of corruption in our nation everybody has a tag price in Washington.


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:01 AM by poet1b
reply to post by marg6043


The evidence linking McCain to Northrop Grumman is weak at best. People who work in McCain's campaign previously worked at lobbying firms, who represented Northrop's parent company, Airbus, AFTER McCain sent a letter to change Pentagon bidding practices in order to save U.S. taxpayers money. Being that the firm in question was hired after McCain sent the letter to the Penagon, and that McCain probably hired the people in his campaign even after that, the time line suggests things are quite different than this obvious hit piece utube presentation wants to admit.

Guess what, most people working in political campaigns work in lobbying firms hired by numerous companies. It is guilt by association to someone who was associated with someone else, ect. No one is going to take this accusation serious, except those looking for any dirt to dish at McCain.


Here is a more accurate picture of the job situation.

thehill.com...

Northrop counters that the contract would provide work for 230 U.S. suppliers and create 14,000 new jobs, including 2,000 in Mobile, Ala., where Northrop and EADS are planning to assemble tankers in a new facility. Including jobs not directly impacted, Northrop boasts it would create a total of 48,000 jobs across the country if awarded the contract.
Northrop initially estimated a smaller number of jobs would be created, but raised its estimate during the competition with Boeing after talking to all its suppliers. That prompted criticism from Boeing and its supporters.
Boeing claimed it would create 44,000 direct and indirect jobs if awarded the contract. It said it would use 300 supplier companies across the country.

Industry sources acknowledged that job numbers promised by defense contractors often are not completely accurate, as each may choose to employ different calculation formulas.


Obviously this is nothing but a hit piece, that doesn't care anything about the facts. McCain's efforts were to save U.S. taxpayers money, so what is wrong with that. Supposed evidence of McCain corruption is extremely weak.



reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 11:12 AM by marg6043
reply to post by poet1b


No is not saving anything but his pocket book for campaign money, is in the face of every American to see the corruption but people wants saviors in this time and age and none of our political leaders are saviors they only serve big interest and McCain is not the exception.

He sells himself just like every politician.

You can believe anything you want but the corruption still stand and he is not child that can claim he is oblivious of what goes on behind his back because for a Presidential candidate that would make him sound inadequate for the office of president and dishonest.

John McCain’s campaign is overrun by lobbyists and the worst abusers of the pay-to-play campaign finance system,” said David Donnelly, Campaign Money Watch’s director. “McCain’s reform credentials are gone. While two lobbyists have left, at least 112 lobbyists who are raising money for his campaign or staffing it remain. If he wants to restore his image he ought to take this initial step to fire these lobbyists today.”
.

www.campaignmoney.org...

What is stopping McCain from hiring honest people to do his campaign funding?

Yes I applauded when he exposed corruption on Boeing but the price tag for his pocket I can not disregard.

Nothing.




[edit on 23-8-2008 by marg6043]


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 01:01 PM by jam321
reply to post by marg6043


I thought people had a right to work anywhere they so please. Just because they are lobbyist or former lobbyist doesn't mean they are going to rake in more money for him. Obama rakes in more money than him. Maybe we should also be concerned with. Especially since all these people or organizations are affiliated with lobbyist. Whether you believe it or not both are doing the same thing but doing in different ways.

But since we are talking about Defense contracts I came across this.

McCain and Obama have gathered $300,034 and $296,673, respectively, from defense contractors. That’s not much money in the grand scheme of these historically expensive campaigns, noted John Isaacs, director of the Council for a Livable World, who added that defense contractors will use the donations to build ties to the candidates.


source

Interesting they have received just about the same.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by jam321]


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 01:10 PM by marg6043
reply to post by jam321


I am on both candidates both of them, because we all Americans regardless of party affiliation needs to understand that the biggest money campaign donors will be the ones getting the favors of whomever gets in the white House.

Do we need more was for profits? depending who are the ones lining up our politicians pockets that is how politics will be play in our nation and we the citizens are the ones on the losing end.


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 02:11 PM by jam321
reply to post by marg6043


I agree 100%. That is why I don't believe in either one. With the huge amount they are raking in, they will have their work cut out for them in trying to repay those favors.

Of course politicians will say that they are doing to protect American jobs, interest, etc etc

Regardless of who wins, we might as well get ready for 4 more years of the last 40 years.

Your answer deserves a star.


reply posted on 23-8-2008 @ 03:25 PM by Scramjet76
reply to post by RaDios


Thanks for the avatar comment...


(ALERT - the following is a purely hypothetical straw man, to illustrate my point) Is it more moral to put 40,000 americans out of a job so that 1 million americans and foreign investors can profit through their investments?


I totally agree with your strawman but that's why we need some sort of government. Those 40,000 folks need "the peanuts" more than McCain or Obama when they hit 65. The system is screwed up. People who make a certain amount of money should not even collect SS (for example).... if anything... to support those 40,000 people who made them money and then got screwed!

As for tempering capitalism with social responsibility I couldn't agree more!

Unfortunately as in many cases theory doesn't always translate well into real life. For example, if you tell folks to get their own private retirement savings and they don't save enough and our poor in old age who helps them out in the end? I would love to trust people but americans' own fascination with blowing money they don't have (via credit cards) confirms they can't handle social responsibility.

Sorry to the OP if I'm totally getting off-topic... notice how you haven't seen me in bullypulpit yet
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