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Why did Custer die?

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posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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I've heard people say that Custer was killed because he was a headstrong idiot who let himself be trapped in a no-win situation. But he was one of the best officers in the Civil War US cavalry. I don't think that he would have allowed himself to be trapped by the Indians unless he had been led to believe that there weren't any. So what I'm trying to say is this. Custer must have been betrayed by his own government. He had a lot of enemies in DC, like President Grant.




posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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Why did custer die?
Puncture wounds from dozens of arrows. The indians kind of had it in for him due to him killing lots of their people in his previous campaigns.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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He thought that he was going to only find a few hundred Indians. Instead there were over 20,000.

So you could blame his intelligence for the lack of complete information.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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Why did Custer die?

Because he deserved it?

Thanks to his own arrogance, at least.

And because Karma is a cruel mistress, and doesn't look well on genocide.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by asmeone2
Why did Custer die?

Because he deserved it?

Thanks to his own arrogance, at least.

And because Karma is a cruel mistress, and doesn't look well on genocide.


I agree, but custer wasn't the only one leading the genocide...many of the greater contributors' legacies still live on today. They are doing the same # to all kinds of people all around the world.


read the book American Holocaust by David E. Stannard. As I recall, there is plenty of info on custer and more.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Wildbob77
 


There were no more than 1500 Indians against him, and his troops had rifles and they had bows...



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 05:49 PM
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I'll try and make this as short and sweet as possible.

George Custer died because he split his command before knowing the strength of the Indians he was preparing to attack. Typical tactics for the time. Seal off one end and charge ahead to seal off the escape route. Then both ends converge to the middle. This may be what Custer had intended. But we'll never know for sure.

Before entering the Valley of the Little Big Horn, Custer had Benteen's command split off to bring up the pack train from the rear. On Custer's orders, Reno's 3 companies split from Custer and crossed the Little Big Horn attacking the southern most end of the Indian encampment, while the remainder of Custer's men proceeded north along the high ridge to the east, looking for a spot to cross the river, north of the encampment, halting any chance on an escape to the north.

After initiating the attack, Reno dismounted his cavalrymen (a mistake) and skirmished, in a wooded area along the bends in the river, for some time until the Indians had sufficient numbers to force Reno and his men back across the Little Big Horn River.

(While Reno fought in the Valley, Custer, with his 250 troopers, could be seen waving to Reno's men from the eastern ridgeline as he continued his move to the northwest. This was the last time Custer was seen alive.)

With the Indians in hot pursuit, the remainder of Reno's shattered companies went up the cliffs east of the river and up to a barely defensible position atop the high ground in what became the Reno-Benteen Battlefield. A defense perimeter was made from killed horses and pack mules.

While with the pack train, Benteen received a message from Custer to quickly bring his men and pack train and meet up with Custer. "Come Quick". At 4:20 pm, 10 minutes after Reno's arrived , Benteen and his men arrived at the hilltop, where along with Reno and his men fought the Indians until late afternoon. Reno and Benteen's men were able to gain a tenuous hold on this area.

Around 5:00 PM that afternoon, from the Reno-Benteen defense site, they could see smoke, dust, and a big comotion off in the distance. The Crow and Sioux Indians had pulled back from their attack on Reno's command and moved towards the fight to the north with Custer. The Indians warriors from the entire valley converged on Custer's men spread out across the hillside.

Many in Reno's command knew they were witnessing the Indians battling Custer's command. But Reno and Benteen, disregarded Custer's orders, and kept their men at the hilltop. But officers from Reno's command, Captain Thomas Weir and Lieutenant Winfield Scott Edgerly waited for the order to meet up with Custer and join the battle. The order never came.

Weir and Edgerly could wait no longer. Orders, or no orders, they were going to meet up with Custer. They took their men to a high point to the northwest (now known as Weir Point) where the took fire from the Indians located on "Sharpshooter Ridge". It was 5:10 PM and they see Custer's engagement some 2 1/2 miles to the north. Benteen with 3 companies from Reno's position moved to meet Weir and Edgerly. It was now 5:45 PM. They expected that a "stand" would be made there. None came and the Indians withdrew and moved off to the north.

At this time, Custer was making his "last stand". Custer could see Captain Weir and his men at Weir Point. He may have expected the troopers on the far away ridgetop to join him in battle. He may have deployed men in preparation for their arrival, further spreading out his command. But the men never came.

Reno recalled the troops from Weir Point, while being fired upon by the Indians during their entire retreat. Any hope of coming to the aid of George Custer disappeared. Reno and his command did not know what had happened to Custer until the next day.

(continued)



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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The story from the other side, now coming out in mainstream and corroborated by 3rd-party historians, is that Custer also died while running from the Indians, not while making a "Last Stand" that he is glorified of. He died a coward.

No, I don't have links, I watch a lot of history docs, and Native American movies based on their ancestral stories.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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Custer and his 234 men would have to take on the 2000-3000 Indians by themselves. Custer tried to cross the Little Big Horn River but was forced back up a long hillside. The Indians came at Custer's men from "Deep Coulee" and "Deep Ravine" and other Indians fired from a ridge to the southwest called "Greasy Grass". Custer and his men kept backing up a hillside toward the high point on the ridge where the "Last Stand" occurred. The Indian were massing in the hidden coulees and ravines.

As the Indians moved closer to Custer and his men, a Hunkpapa Chief, Gall and his men made a suicide charge through Custer's command, Crazy Horse came from the backside of the hilltop with his men and cut through Keogh's shattered formation. All that remained was the "Last Stand". At this point, the Indians in the ravines, coulees and the backside of the ridge, charged Custer's position quickly, overwelming his command.

A few men may have tried to escape, but all of Custer's 5 companies, died on the sunny hillsides. Somewhere between 204 and 208 died during the entire battle and on Custer Hill, 53 stones occupy a site where 42 bodies were initally buried, to include the body of Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer.

George Custer was found near the top of the hill, with 5 or 6 spent shells under his unmutilated body. Just down from the ridgetop, his brother Boston and his cousin Autie Reed were found.

Another brother, Captain Thomas W. Custer was found just a feet feet up the hill from where George's body was found. Tom Custer distinguished himself during the Civil War, although he was barely twenty years of age when the Civil War ended. For his heroic actions, he was awarded two Congressional Medals of Honor. He was one of only four soldiers or sailors to receive the dual honor during the Civil War, and one of just nineteen in history of the United States.

For more indepth information and GREAT supporting photographs, may I suggest purchasing a book, "Where Custer Fell", Photographs of the Little Big Horn Battlefield Then And Now, by James Brust and the late Brian Pohanka.

IMHO, the best book ever on "Custer's Last Stand".



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Misfit
The story from the other side, now coming out in mainstream and corroborated by 3rd-party historians, is that Custer also died while running from the Indians, not while making a "Last Stand" that he is glorified of. He died a coward.

No, I don't have links, I watch a lot of history docs, and Native American movies based on their ancestral stories.


Negative!!! State your sources. The last thing any of the men of Custer's command, including Custer, deserve to be called is "cowards". As described by the Indians involved, Custer's men fought furriously until the end.

The Indian side of the story tells nothing of what you post. Check out the descriptions given by "White Man Runs Him", "Goes Ahead", "Hairy Moccasin" and "Gall". All on record and housed at the Smithsonian Institution.

Watching TV isn't gonna cut it with me. How about a little solid research before you call someone a coward. These men deserve better than that.

Too much of this stuff posted on ATS



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by the way
Why did custer die?
Puncture wounds from dozens of arrows. The indians kind of had it in for him due to him killing lots of their people in his previous campaigns.


What he said.

The most unfortunate factor to Custer's death is that it happened far too late.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Oldnslo

Originally posted by Misfit
The story from the other side, now coming out in mainstream and corroborated by 3rd-party historians, is that Custer also died while running from the Indians, not while making a "Last Stand" that he is glorified of. He died a coward.

No, I don't have links, I watch a lot of history docs, and Native American movies based on their ancestral stories.


Negative!!! State your sources. The last thing any of the men of Custer's command, including Custer, deserve to be called is "cowards". As described by the Indians involved, Custer's men fought furriously until the end.

The Indian side of the story tells nothing of what you post. Check out the descriptions given by "White Man Runs Him", "Goes Ahead", "Hairy Moccasin" and "Gall". All on record and housed at the Smithsonian Institution.

Watching TV isn't gonna cut it with me. How about a little solid research before you call someone a coward. These men deserve better than that.

Too much of this stuff posted on ATS

Exactly, especially now that new archaeological digs done by the NPS and researchers after a recent wildfire in 2004 found evidence indicating that the truth of what actually did happen that hot June afternoon in 1876 is closer to the "heroic last stand" image then the cowardly retreat story invented in the 1970s by the radicals and the revisionists.

The men of the 7th fought hard that day, very hard and by many accounts very bravely.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Oldnslo
 

Excuse you but, I believe you disragarded my first senstence. Hell don't flame me for what I read/view.


Originally posted by Misfit
The story from the other side, now coming out in mainstream and corroborated by 3rd-party historians.


TV isn't good enough for you, well isn't that special. I didn't imply I got this from watching John Wayne.
By your stance, a doc or a movie based on a book of anything, must be false ........... because it's on TV.

Jeebuz, lighten up!





[edit on 23/8/08 by Misfit]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by the way
Why did custer die?
Puncture wounds from dozens of arrows. The indians kind of had it in for him due to him killing lots of their people in his previous campaigns.


And a couple of "negatives" to you, too.

First, Lt. Col. George A. Custer was shot twice. Once between the ribs, below the heart. The other shot hit him in the left temple.

Secondly, the Indians involved in the "Last Stand" had absolutley no idea they were fighting against Custer. It wasn't untill days or weeks after the battle that the Indians found out they had killed Custer.

(edited for spelling)

Common knowledge for anyone that has studied "The Last Stand" at the Little Big Horn.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Oldnslo]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Oldnslo]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisF231


The men of the 7th fought hard that day, very hard and by many accounts very bravely.



I don't think they ran either. I think they fought to the end. Bravely fought to the end. Unfortunately, their brave last stand didn't undo the fact they were all a bunch of heartless murderers. So you win - they fought to the end.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Oldnslo

And a couple of "negatives" to you, too.

First, Lt. Col. George A. Custer was shot twice. Once between the ribs, below the heart. The other shot hit him in the left temple.

Secondly, the Indians involved in the "Last Stand" had absolutley no idea they were fighting against Custer. It wasn't untill days or weeks after the battle the the Indians found out they had killed Custer.

Common knowledge for anyone that has studied "The Last Stand" at the Little Big Horn.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Oldnslo]


I don't know - your arrows didn't hit home with me. First off, get a sense of humor. He was being sarcastic about the dozens statement - who the heck knows exactly what the truth is on how many arrows hit him.

Second - the anger referenced was in general to all white US military men in the general vicinity by any Indian men sick and tired of the murderous rampaging...so your second point is just utter nonsense. Custer helped build that anger with his actions. It doesn't matter if they knew he specifically was there, he brought on his own death. And I restate, just too damned late.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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Something Valhal said made me want to clarify ........ I never mentioned the soldiers, which is what Oldnslo immediately yiped about me talking of. I only mentioned Custer.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Misfit
 


Your sources?

Sources for my post:

1. Where Custer Fell - Photograghs of the Little Big Horn Battlefield Then and Now"" Brust and Pohanka
2. Custer Battlefield - Official National Handbook
3. Legend into History - Charles Kuhlman
4. Archaeology, History and Custer's Last Battle - Richard Fox
5. Been there - Intersection of Interstate 90 and HWY 212, Gerryowen, MT

And, NO SIR, TV is not good enough. TV is never good enough. You need to lighten up until you put some meat in your posts


Then you can be special, too.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Oldnslo
 


Very well said. I don't think I've ever read as concise an accurate overview of the legendary battle.

Custer was defeated by superior military strategy, and, perhaps to some degree, by his dogged dedication to his own military paradigms, and failure to recognize that his opponents were learning and modifying their own tactics.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 07:20 PM
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Here's the long and the short of it...without emotion and just centering on facts:

Custer was killed because he was part and parcel of an organized, government-ordered machine that had exactly one mandate - eliminate, as best you can, the Native Indian...period.

He died because the targets got tired of dying.



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