reply to post by Cool Hand Luke

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Not going to waste too much time with a response because it appears that A to B linkage is just enough that you can handle.

I guess you seem to think that things are black are white and teeter between the two. You either aren't very good at chess, never worked for a big corporation, or understand history very well(understanding by feeling/being that history).

Strategy is used to deceive, okay. I hope that makes sense to you. When a good strategy is implemented, the people(meant to be deceived by said strategy) are deceived without knowing that they ARE deceived.

Are you following? Because this is as basic as it gets.

The deceived now believe what the deceivers/strategists have told them and act accordingly. Have you ever worked in at a place and was told to do something utterly ridiculous and not given a reason why? I'm sure you have. There is a reason/strategy behind this. This is not conspiracy talk here at all.

A person that knows he/she is being deceived(on any level) excepts their position of slave. A true patriot will not allow themselves to be deceived by anyone. And who do you think the biggest deceivers are in your daily life.....YOUR GOVERNMENT. You NEVER, EVER trust the government or give them the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry, friend, I guess in my attempts to maintain some anonymity I let my words become confusing.

I know it was a plane that hit the Pentagon because loved ones picked up pieces of the plane while they were pulling survivors from the rubble. I know it was a passenger plane because loved ones saw luggage and personal effects. A colleague of mine was one of the witnesses who saw the plane hit the building.

So, as you can see, I'm not big on calling family members liars by buying into conspiracy theories stating that a plane didn't hit the Pentagon.

Some of the first seekers of truth about 911 came from the family members of the souls lost on that day.

thanks for the clairification i completely understand

also i never substantially doubted wether a plane or a certain kind of plane hit the white house but with that understanding of where we are both sort of "coming from" don't you agree that SHOULD this be a large coverup , that there would be a dozen or so ideas of what happened (people trying to figure out what happened), and lots of them will be wrong (even a few deliberately wrong- because this gets some people to rush back to the offical story when they see ONE or TWO other conspiracy's about 9/11 are false i.e no plane theory-) you understand that KEY right? there are many theory's of what happened other than the official story, dont throw them all out, because a few are silly

so how many changed their mind on the conspiracy

reply to post by anachryon

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Love ones! what are you talking about?
The people that were supposed to be on board flight 93 families were NOT at the crash scene.
So these love one’s could not have help pick up air plane debris or bodies at the crash scene.
Luggage! What luggage?
(Love one’s saw luggage and personal effects)
Again who are these love one’s
Can you show pictures or proof luggage that was found?

Who is saying family members are liars?

Who is the colleague of yours that said he saw a plane that hit the Pentagon?
Dose this person have a name? Dose this person work at the Pentagon?

No!

The biggest spin I seen for quite a while, was the dramatic large cave-in they showed for the pentagon.

when I finally seen the initial small hole I then realized, it was not shown to everyone on purpose, to make an impression.

oh please

if the press was interested in truth instead of drama, they'd have posted, the full sequence of pics they took, in the paper and on the television when they replayed it.

but replaying something that would raise more questions as opposed to cementing the idea that an airliner hit it, was more important to the editors, the real enemy of the people, than was truth.



I don't know how or who, but it was not as was told, that's about all I can say.

reply to post by JimBeam

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" A person that knows he/she is being deceived(on any level) accepts their position of slave. "


I like the way you phrased that. I'm gonna have to borrow that line.



For those who trust the gov't;

www.dicksutphen.com...

Great observation about Loved ones picking up luggage and personal belongings.
Believe the government conspiracy theory or piece together one of your own. Either way, when the Government lies to the citizens that they serve then by default they cease to be the constitutionally mandated Government.
We live in a system where "rule of law" is the standard. Those who act outside of the law or who act above the law are disrespecting the rule of law standard.
What is happening here is thousands of citizens attempting to reassemble a very large and complex jigsaw. It is difficult and painstaking and at times feels futile. It is easier to just give up. Safer to give up. Less emotionally disturbing to give up. Less psychological turmoil to give up.

makes a bit of sense, although i would add the word helplessly before deceived

when people know they are getting bent over and BELIEVE they can do nothing to change the situation

reply to post by cashlink

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Excuse me? What are you talking about?
No, I won't be giving you the names of or any personal details about my family. I like my privacy, thank you very much.
If you'll actually read my first post in this thread, you'll see that many members of my family are emergency responders - police, firefighters, EMTs and the like, and they were involved with recovery at the Pentagon. Where are you getting anything about being on F.93??

Instead of rudely demanding information you have no right to, accept the fact that I believe my relatives who were on-scene. Your ill-contrived and obviously poorly-researched ideas are of no concern to me.

reply to post by cpdaman

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" when people know they are getting bent over and BELIEVE they can do nothing to change the situation "



That reminds me of the excuses I hear people use for not voting for Ron Paul, I'm only one vote etc.

Shot themselves down before even trying. Good thing our forefathers weren't so self defeating.

Sounds like your family members were true heroes that day. To go thru the horror of looking for survivors must be agonizing. However, there are those that appreciate all they did.

Don't let a few conspiracy theorists spoil their efforts. They will soon fade away.


[edit on 27-8-2008 by gavron]

I don't wish to be pedantic but what are the odds of three buildings falling due to fire or thermal expansion on the same day? Are there any previous examples of any buildings that have fallen due to fire or thermal expansion?

Thank you for being so considerate



You seem to guess alot



The last time I played was in grade 6. I was the envy of my classroom



Wrong again. I've worked for many big corporations.



Just how exactly does anyone feel history? How do you know I don't have a good understanding of history? Did you just feel that might the case?


Loud and clear buddy



With regards to 9/11, are you sure you are not being deceived?



Still here



Exactly. In the case of the 9/11 "truthers" or the "gov is behind everything" crowd you hear the same lies over and over again. When confronted with evidence that proves their claims are false, they conveniently go on repeating "disinfo", as well as claiming the person that provided the "disinfo" a "disinfo agent". Or if someone has a differing view they are immediately labeled "sheeple".

They seem to act exactly how they are "trained" to act by their deceivers.



No I haven't. My suggestion to you is if this happened to you and were unhappy with what you were told to do, you should quit that job.



You sure are trying hard to turn it into a conspiracy



Right and???



Right but thats one strike against you because you believe people that live in make belief land where government is responsible for everything under the sun and everything that happens in the world is part of a larger conspiracy. And in failing to question these people's motives or sources, you are letting yourself be deceived.

BTW claiming yourself to be a patriot is like me calling myself a hero.



Politicians are liars by nature. But as far as the biggest deceivers go, some of these conspiracy crowds are running a pretty close second.



I know very few people personally that work in government so I cannot make that call. But in our modern day society I don't have to make that call because if a politician does somethings that I don't agree with, they will not get my vote. That's why it's important for government officials to do the right thing because if they don't, they will have a very short career.

Welcome to democracy Mr. Beam

[edit on 27-8-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

reply to post by anachryon

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I really believe you are angry, and you should be.
Wait till you find out that our Government was involved in planning and pulling this false flag operation off.

This courageous man has risked his professional reputation, and possibly his life, to get this information out to people.
George W Bush Authorized 911 Attacks Says Government Insider
Global Research, May 23, 2008
Pakistan Daily - 2008-05-20
Keep in mind when reading this, that the man being interviewed is no two-bit internet conspiracy buff.
Stanley Hilton was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole (R) and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades. This courageous man has risked his professional reputation, and possibly his life, to get this information out to people.
Bush personally ordered it to happen. We have some very incriminating documents as well as eye-witnesses, that Bush personally ordered this event to happen in order to gain political advantage, to pursue a bogus political agenda on behalf of the neocons and their deluded thinking in the Middle East. I also wanted to point out that, just quickly, I went to school with some of these neocons. At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject - how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years.

AJ: That’s right. They were all Straussian followers of a Nazi-like professor. And now they are setting it up here in America. Stanley, I know you deposed a lot of people and you’ve got your $7 million dollar lawsuit with hundreds of the victim’s families involved.
SH: 7 billion, 7 billion
AJ: Yeah, 7 billion. Can you go over some of the new and incriminating evidence you’ve got of them ordering the attack?
dprogram.net...
I don’t think this man could get away with fileing this kind of a law suit with out real proof, or it would have been thrown out of court already. If this is all true then I would be scared to death.

For those that want to hear the live interview.
www.prisonplanet.tv...

When You have officials that are creditable telling you In damning transcript, ex-CIA official says Cheney likely ordered letter linking Hussein to 9/11 attacks.
What more do you all need Bush and Chaney was behind 911.
rawstory.com...

thanks cash link

you know that as the economic pain deepens in this country more people will be open to giving uncomfortable possible truths a FAIR chance.

In good economic times it is much easier to brush such depressing things off, the next few years is when more people will actually be more open to listening to these viewpoints, because they will be getting fed up with their own economic pain, and this gives them less reason to filter the rest of the uncomfortable truths as blissful ignornace and dismiss them out of hand.

the time to get people to be more receptive to wake up is coming and is directly proportional to their economic pain. sure others have believed they have figured it out when they are happy and succesful, but most don't put in the effort or show a desire to pull off that balancing act IMO.

reply to post by cpdaman

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You are right!
We all have been taken in by this Administration, for eight years.
I would like to know what has President Bush done for our Country that was good?
Because I haven’t found it yet.
I have spent several years researching 911 even before I ever posted on ATS.
The more I found out the madder I got. I had a sick feeling that something very evil has taken over our Government and I still see it today.
I am seeing a terrible change happening in America, and if this change continues its course there will not be a free America, and I mean very soon.
People need to turn off their TV and wake up! The mass media has turn on Americans by reporting out right lies.
People need to look on the internet for their news source.
I believe America needs a revolution to take back our Government, and the time is now.