It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Anyone change there mind about 9/11 being a conspiracy

page: 2
4
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:14 PM
link   
I used to believe in our Government even after when 911 happened
I never question 911 or the war.
I use to depend on CNN for my information on world events
I use to watch Glen Beck every night.
Then one day I got an email from a friend to watch a documentary on unanswered questions about 911.
After watching the documentary I started to do research on 911.
The first place I went was the Gov.org sites. I did a lot of reading and I got the feeling something was missing in each event that happened on 911.
I went to www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
I also went to 911research.wtc7.net...
This was just for starters a lot of my question were being answered.
The one thing I could see there was a cover up of information.

After some years of research I really realized the Government has told us little to nothing.
And to this day the Government refuses to answered a single question about 911.
The Government has shown NO REAL EVIDENCE, only tid bits of nothing that doesn’t match to what is.
To this very day, we really do not know what really brought the WTC down.
To this very day, we really do not know if those airplanes where civilian or military (no proof.)
Most of the evidents either is destroyed or is being kept from us.

To think our Government is not able to pull off a false flag operation is delusional.
A fine example was en.wikipedia.org...
Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a false flag conspiracy plan, proposed within the United States government in 1962. The plan called for CIA or other operatives to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Castro-led Cuba. One plan was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".
This operation is especially notable in that it included plans for hijackings and bombings followed by the use of phony evidence that would blame the terrorist acts on foreign governments.

The plan states, "The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere." Operation Northwoods was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and signed by then-Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer, and sent to the Secretary of Defense.

Then there was The Bay of pigs en.wikipedia.org...

But to understand about False Flag Operation read this.
en.wikipedia.org...

With so much evidence buried by our Government anyone can see something is terrible wrong.
There has never been an investigation in to 911.
In addition, if any person wants to call the 911 Commission report an investigation then they really do not know what an investigation consist of.
I have learned that protocol was totally ignored when it came to preserving a crime scene on 911
There was a rush to clean up everything. No one was asking question, the media had done its job, they sold the lie, and even I bought it.

To really understand how media is used to sell lies read this www.globalissues.org...

Published on Monday, April 21, 2008 by Salon.com
Major Revelation: US Media Deceitfully Disseminates Government Propaganda
by Glenn Greenwald
[Sunday] morning’s “blockbuster” New York Times article by David Barstow, documenting the Pentagon and U.S. media’s joint use of pre-programmed “military analysts” who posed as objective experts while touting the Government line and having extensive business interests in promoting those views, is very well-documented and well-reported. And credit to the NYT for having sued to compel disclosure of the documents on which the article is based. There are significant elements of the story that exemplify excellent investigative journalism.
www.commondreams.org...

Therefore, this is just the tip of the ice burg of why I do not buy in to to much of what our Government says anymore.
My “opinion” on 911 is, Our Government was involved, to me that explains all the cover up and the silents on 911.
Do I have proof as of evidence, no I don’t .
However, neither do any of you.




posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 08:12 PM
link   
cash link the pilots for truth is a decent site, thanks for the links

the funny thing that i have come to perceive among people that are skeptical of the offical story and of some theories is that they turn
to truthers for the truth, truthers are or should be looking for the truth IMO, they don't necessarily have it. Imagine how many goofy theories would be out there even if this was a true conspiracy, with the subsequent cover up, and all these distrustful (and rightfully so) people looking for answers from something so complex that would be = to solving the biggest mystery of the U.S history. I mean of course there would be a zillion wrong theory's of what happened.

operation northwoods lays it out on the line, american lives expendable for the bigger means of a war, note this doesn't confirm anything about 9/11 but it sure is a glimpse into the minds and thoughts of the uglyiness of politics, an uglyness you would never see on tv (unless it's 50 years after and they didn't go thru w/ the plan lol)

I think once you put the bigger pictue together (like northwoods, insider trading)anyone would be skeptical of the offical story, still doesn't mean it's a conspiracy but i think the pendulum begins to swing in that direction, the little details almost become a fool's game to figure out, if this was a true conspiracy, you would be trying to outsmart the best in the intelligence business, think you can do that.

the funny thing is how do you get someone to consider (not believe!) just consider!, that part's of the gov't were in on something so heinous when you don't have the details and most people would have their WALLS up and why bother?

[edit on 23-8-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 12:56 AM
link   
I agree, you can’t make people believe in anything.
They have to do their own research.
However, most people have already bought in to CNN and CBS and ABC and FOX news.
What little truth there are out there about 911 are for the open-minded people that do not believe in everything that man writes and views and hear on TV.
The old saying garbage in garbage out.
Seven years now and most people just do not want to talk about 911 or hear about it.
Most people I assume just want to ignore 911, they saw it all on TV that day. Whats there to know anyway.
Just the mar thought of our Government having anything to do with 911 is flabbergasted!
We are Americans we are the most powerful Nation on earth our Government wouldn’t dream of killing American citizens and blow up building and crash airplanes in to buildings.
It just cannot happen in America.
Again just the thought could they! No way! but, what if No way!
The anger starts to rise to the surface then the rage when enough research has been done.
Most people don’t want to know if there is anything other than the Government version of 911.
And the real reason is, if our Government did do 911 and covered it up and blamed some extremists terrorist group, then I will have to stop what I am doing stop working stop paying taxes stop school just stop everything.
It will mean our great country is in terrible trouble, it will mean that we really do not have a Government anymore.
It will mean I will have to do something about it, if I love my freedom that is.
It means giving up everything thing to fight, to take back this Country.

However, it is just as easy to bury my head in the sand and give up the fight!
You tell yourself why should I, I don’t see anyone else doing it, I know its easy to go with the flow of the people beliefs, Now the media is already making fun of anyone who question our Government much less 911 saying it is unpatriotic or it is supporting terrorism.
It is easy to do as the media says and not ask question ( THAT’S RIGHT DON’T ASK QUESTIONS!)
Then we deserve to lose our Country and our freedom and our liberties.
That’s right! You do nothing you get nothing!
For all who want to label me a conspiracy theorist, you are just parroting the media.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 01:39 AM
link   
I initially accepted the whole 9/11 government issued story without question. It wasn't the kind of thing that I would have thought the government would actually orchestrate. If anything, I would have accepted negligence as an argument. When I first heard of 'truthers' I figured they were just conspiracy nuts. That was before I got involved with ATS.

Being here, I have discovered there are so many degrees of "conspiracy nuts" they can't all be lumped together. So I started to listen to the truthers arguments. The only one that really made me cast some doubt on the governments role, is the flight 93 'evidence.'

The fact is, I don't see anyone being able to solidly prove either side of the argument. So I have become a doubting citizen. I can't point the finger at the government, but I don't easily trust what they claim anymore. I chose to live life as if the governments story is the most accurate one. Mostly because, how can someone who wholeheartedly believes the government orchestrated 9/11 live their daily lives and simply just be upset or outraged?
Think about it, if the government came out and admitted they planned and pulled off the whole ordeal, people would storm Washington with guns blazing! So if you believe that, you would almost be obligated to physically try to "take back" the government. Hell, our founding fathers waged war over taxes! Sure, it couldn't be done by one or two people, or even a thousand marching on Washington with firearms. It would have to be through secret "terror" acts. This would only fuel the War on Terror on the home front leading to an increased loss of rights and freedoms.

So baring the next American Revolution, I will live life like normal simply taking everything the government says with a grain of salt and a little research.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:55 PM
link   
cashlink that is a good point about anger bubbling up (should this conspiracy be believed to be true) i think you have to be careful when saying the "gov't did it" because that imply's the entire gov't had a hand in this, and that is foolish IMO (even though people may not intend for this to mean this).

even if this conspiracy was true and being so grand it would likely have people in elite gov't positions with some knowledge (but compartmentalized and incomplete) i.e knowing there will be an incident with airplane's, or there will be a terror threat of some kind, or i will schedule war games (which may confuse air traffic controllers that morning) but i don't necessarily know what the ramification's and exact details will be. IF something this large of a conspiracy was true you can bet in this day of globalization that the puppet masters (international financiers, tri lateral commision) had some compartmentalized knowledge of the affair as well, same with the intelligence ageny's (the latter two likely having more complete knowledge among some "special members" and potentially even a couple within certain fraction of our gov't, but not gauranteed, or as numerous as in the two other groups IMO .

One should also realize that false flag attacks like this are not carried out that often. meaning someone can belive this was carried out by elements within a international intelligence circle as well as with the blessings of the trilateral commision members and some compartmentalized knowledge of some elite's within our gov't YET still sleep at nite knowing you have a better chance of dying from a car accident or even other exotic unnatural causes than perishing in a false flag (IF that is what this was). I mean these groups wouldn't conduct one of these every month or even year for the heck of it, they would make sure that each incident would be imprinted and engrained on people's memory's using the full effect of the (intellectual prostitute's = the media) who really don't have much leeway in the way they report things like this i.e do as your told. They would make sure the incident gets the most "bang for it's buck" on the public psyche!

so 1. if you were to *consider this to be true (not believe) consider, you don't have to hate your entire gov't
2. you also dont' have to live in fear, you could have better odds of drowning that dying in a false flag, which should be able to give people some piece of mind (these things are very infrequently carried out and done so to get the most psychological bang for the buck!)



i posted a similiar response to this but i lost internet connectivity and i am not as happy with the wording i used in this response (since i am a bit hurried but i think it gets my points across)

[edit on 24-8-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:07 AM
link   
I dont believe anyone who believes the 9/11 conspiracy, in the true sense of the word, could believe it, then reject it.

Ive watched a few videos put out by the 9/11 believers but Ive never seen an arguement for the official line believable for even a moment.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 01:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Cool Hand Luke
 

So if no CT can be proven the OS must be true?

The quality posters here on ATS are the ones that got me to see beyond that fallacy, I would think you would see it also.

I used to believe in CT's, then I learned to debunk.

Then I wanted to believe the OS because I didnt believe the CT's.

But I used what I learned debunking the CT's and came to the conclusion that the OS is BS.

And thats where I sit now. I cant tell you who conspired but I am certain it wasnt a group of low to mid level Saudi terrorists. And I am certain there is more going on than we are led to believe.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by Cool Hand Luke
 



I used to believe in CT's, then I learned to debunk.

Then I wanted to believe the OS because I didnt believe the CT's.

But I used what I learned debunking the CT's and came to the conclusion that the OS is BS.




that sounds pretty logical actually.

I remember the PNAC asked for a new pearl harbor. Many believe pearl harbor was Allowed to happen, to jusitfy an american response

perhaps 9/11 was a pearl harbor with a bit more intelligence assistance to get by our defenses (ATC and WTC security)

I have been wondering lately how feasible it could have been for the terrorists to actually be a significant part of the operation, but kind of manipulated by several intelligent agency's, (perhaps motivated to commit this, pushed in the direction and allowed to learn how to train for this) while the whole time the CIA, etc added in a few bells and whistles (explosive's in WTC) , and convenience's (war games scheduled the morning of to confuse air traffic controllers) to allow them to have the best possible conditions to pull this off and with maximum effect!

......knock at door lol

[edit on 25-8-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:24 PM
link   
reply to post by cpdaman
 


I like your take on this; it shows you have done your homework.
The one thing I do know is that we have been lied to.
The NIST report on WTC7 is a joke, and the Government is playing on our intelligent.
Does the Government really think Americans are that stupid?
We are never going to know what happened; it is all a secret to stay buried forever.
We all can bicker and fight who right and who wrong but neither sides have any real proof.
We need a real investigation on 911 done by real scientist that has no ties to our Government.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by cashlink
We need a real investigation on 911 done by real scientist that has no ties to our Government.


Your completely right on that. I just watched a program this weekend on the assasination of Philippine Senator Aquino in the 1980's by the Marcos regime. The government did their investigation on a matter that they orchestrated, found their scapegoat guilty. The people were outraged, and with the corroboration of witness reports, a non-government investigation was launched at which the courts could not deny the proof. Soon after, the Marcos dictatorship ended.

I think such a reinvestigation on 9/11 is warranted. However, publicly, too many people don't want to reexamine the issue. Some because of having to relieve the loss of family, some because they simply can't fathom not believing the government on the matter, and some deep down are affraid of what it would mean if the truth according to the government was really far from it. It would bring about chaos in the nation.

Hmm.. the more I think of it, the scarier the idea is. Could anything good really come from such a situation other thank knowing the truth?

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Wolf321]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Wolf321
 


I never thought of that, if the truth really came out and it was the Bush Administration
That was behind 911, the people in this country would revolt there would be a civil war.
The country would want blood!



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:46 PM
link   
Personally, I think both sides are right.

I think that the government is telling the truth but is leaving out details for whatever reason. Those are the details that keeps the fire burning. Their resistance and refusal to answer those questions leaves many wondering what the government has to hide. If they have nothing to hide then why not answer the questions.

Is this not the same question our government ask us when they are investigating a crime?

Some 9/11 conspiracy theorist have actually asked some pretty good questions that have yet to be answered by our government. Such as why did our government get rid of the steel so quickly knowing that the steel was part of the investigation. There are many more valid questions like how one of the most secured places in the world could have no solid picture of the plane that hit the pentagon. I personally feel that they do but have chosen not to release it.

However, due to some extreme conspiracy theories, these valid points are often overlooked or combined as part of the extreme conspiracy. This is the reason very few MSM take the 9/11 conspiracy theories serious.

Once again they are only telling us what they want to. But what they are telling us is the truth so far.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:04 PM
link   
Everyone believes in a "conspiracy" theory about 911.
You either believe the offical government theory that nineteen terrorist hijackers pulled off the highest level of precision military hit and self destructed in the process leaving behind al-Queda and its tentacles that need hacked off.
Of you believe in one of many other theories.

Being in a state of not believing the official story is in itself a big step for numerous people. Because where do you go from there?
1. The Gov. knew nothing about it.
2. The Gov. knew some things about it and failed to prevent it or to respond in a timely fashion.
3. The Gov. knew that something was going to occur and gave tacit approval by not preventing it.
4. The Gov. knew and assisted in it occurring.
5. The Gvo. actually planned and carried out the event and used patsies, dupes and technicians to implement it.

I have been a skeptic of Gov. stories for a long time now,
commencing with 11-23-1963.

It took me about two days to smell something rotten in the Gov. story.

Personally in the continuum of #1-#5 above, I am at #5.

I just have not figured out for my own ceratinty what brought WTC1-2-7 to the ground. So I am investigating Hydrogen bombs.

So I have been a conspiracy theorist for many years.
I have little cognitive dissonance to overcome.
I am a citizen of America,
and I have intense empathy for the souls lost that day.
My axe to grind is for the truth.

Always has been. Will be too.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 08:51 PM
link   
I've been on both sides of the fence.

Humor me for leaving out some details - privacy and all.

When 9/11 happened I was living and working just a few miles from one of the centers of activity. I come from a family with many emergency responder personnel - cops, firefighters, EMTs, etc - so I had some very close near-firsthand knowledge of the scene. I was scared. Scared isn't the word. I was immobilized with fear. I could smell the fires. I had family members I thought I might never see again.

As weeks passed afterward, when nothing further happened, most people weren't quite as afraid anymore. Not me. I was haunted by what friends and family had gone through that day and in the days that followed. I knew how often the police were put on high alert. We had the good scanners in the house, the kind that receive the "non public" channels; I knew about every crank threat, every suspicious person, all of it. I was scared. I couldn't leave the house for fear of a plane falling out of the sky.

Eventually I moved away to a "safer" town in a different state and got my life back together. During that time I started to question the "official" story. I did a lot of reading and got pretty caught up in the more lucid "non-official" theories (i.e. holograms and such were dismissed as the tripe they are) - I wondered why the towers fell, I wondered what hit the Pentagon, I wondered what happened to flight 93. I questioned all of it, and in my anger and fear I doubted the "official" story. We're America - we're supposed to be invincible dammit!! There must've been something more going on to have turned my life on its head, to have fudged up the head of a dear friend of mine, to have put my loved ones' safety in such jeopardy!

And after throwing all my belief into the "non-official" theories, eventually I realized that I was being very one-sided. Not only was I being biased in my research by ignoring other viewpoints, but I was disrespecting friends and family by disbelieving what they experienced firsthand.

So I took a few steps back and did some more research. I never forgot what those close to me experienced and how it affected them and I used that as my base. I stuck with science, not speculation from armchair quarterbacks. It all boiled down to believing something in between the "official" and the "non-official" stories.

Planes hit the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. A plane crashed in PA. Extremists from the Middle East hijacked and piloted those planes to their demise. The towers fell because of simple physics and the law of gravity, 7 fell because it was extensively damaged.

Was our government aware of the threat? Yes, I believe they were. Did they engineer that day? No. Did they not take the threat seriously or fail to act due to incompetence, arrogance, and/or lack of agency communication? I think it was a combination of all of the above. Was 93 shot down? I think that's entirely possible, but we'll probably never know. Did our government use 9/11 as a stepping stone to an unnecessary war in Iraq? That I believe 100%.

I won't disrespect people I know and love by entertaining the thought that they lied about what they experienced that day, though, and because of that I tend to avoid "non-official" theory discussions on the subject.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 08:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by anachryon
I've been on both sides of the fence.

I won't disrespect people I know and love by entertaining the thought that they lied about what they experienced that day, though, and because of that I tend to avoid "non-official" theory discussions on the subject.


this doesn't seem logical to me

i mean i completely understand not wanting to disrespect anyone who suffered that day. but what do you mean by entertaining the thought they lied, that is poor word choice, considering alot of people also heard "explosions", and during chaos all you know if fear, ( seems to me you made a big assumption and poor choice in logic ) because being there does not mean you know the background over the orchestration behind this, seems you are thinking it would disrespect them by not going along with what they believe, and for anyone directly effected by this, i think they (becauce of the trauma) would either be forced into having strong beliefs in either direction (otherwise...uncertainty after trauma leades to more fear) They were there they no what they experienced, you are not denying what they experienced, but the beliefs they have about the big picture and the orchestration, are not more accurate because they were victims, actually i think due to the trauma, it would be more difficult to get them to open their minds once they latch on to a belief (that may or may not be true about the reasons behind this). I frankly think they would be more averse to believing some part of the CIA or someone close to america caused this because that would mean living in greater fear for the rest of their lives IMO.



[edit on 26-8-2008 by cpdaman]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by cpdaman]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:00 PM
link   
I used to be one of those so called "outlandish" 9/11 conspiracy believers. Like believing there weren't even any planes at all ANYWHERE. Or that they were drones that didn't even have people in them. I am still very skeptical about the pentagon being hit by a plane simply because they can't seem to show a plane even hitting it (or at least a passenger plane.) This was for a very brief period of time, however.

Now I just believe that the government let it happen to accomplish their goals of goading the people into multiple wars for oil. There is plenty of evidence of that.

People being warned the a day or two in advance.

Ignored warnings of an imminent terrorist attack.

Bush not even so much as flinching when he was told what happened. There's not a person on this Earth that didn't at least express some type of emotion or even a simple expression when this happened.

Big wigs conveniently not being in the buildings that day.

A news reporter stating Building 7 had collapsed about 10 minutes (or is it 20?) before it even did while it was still standing in the video behind him.

The fact that NORAD was told to stand down. It just so happened that a drill was going on that VERY DAY for that VERY SCENARIO in that VERY PLACE meaning that when it really came over that wire that it happened, no one acted at first because they thought it was part of the drill. (this also happened in the London bombings too.)

PNAC's own mission statement says that in order for them to accomplish their goals of being the worlds sole military superpower a major catastrophe has to happen to get the masses to go along with it.

Arguing about the details and supposed evidence is really of no consequence to me anymore. What matters to me now is that they let it happen and I think it's finding the motives that matters now.

In a murder, you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want that points to the culprit, but it doesn't mean diddly squat if you don't have a sound motive.

Edit to add: It's not that I wish to believe in a big bad secret government because it feels better than believing there are people out there that just want to harm America.

We all KNOW there are corrupt politicians caught doing very shady things behind doors. It's like when people are shocked that a policeman or a doctor or a marine could kill someone. They are supposed to protect us. But you know what? They are humans. Being in those positions does not automatically make you saintly and incapable of harm.

In fact what better line of work for a sociopath to be in than in one where they hold immense power and wealth (and remember a sociopath is very much in control of their emotions and always appear to be very "together").

It's like the KKK. It's been found time and time again that members of the Klan hold very respectable positions in society yet no one was the wiser. But it was part of an agenda to achieve their goals of white supremacy.



[edit on 26-8-2008 by nunya13]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:28 PM
link   
reply to post by Cool Hand Luke
 



"Hahahahahah...ew eh he ow haw haw ow he haw haw... And I thought my jokes were bad." - The joker

You obviously have a huge credibility issue my "friend". It seems that you just take things at face value. If you don't understand motivation in others, how can you be motivated to discover certain truths???

The "go with the flow" mentality types are the most boring people in the world. Not to mention, the most unwise.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 04:49 PM
link   
I know that surviving family members of many of the victims have come together enmasse and were the first group that made the most noise about finding out what really happened. They are not disrespecting their own family members death by doing so I do not believe. Many of them want the truth, and the wound they got on 911 will not close or heal till they get the truth.
Incompetence and neglect are flimsy blankets to cover up any closer inspection of 911. That does not wash.



#1 knows nothing, #2 knows but does not stop, #3 Knows and gives permission, #4 Knows and helps, #5 caused and facilitated it to happen.


Once you leave the #1 position that the Gov knew nothing about 911, and begin looking closely with a critical eye for detail and fact, you get to #2 position. Lots of faint hearted people stop there and return to the official story. To preserve their own sanity and stability. Let them go. This journey from #1 to #? is not for the coward and the meek who see the worlds great anguish and it's wrong and dare not speak.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 05:20 PM
link   
reply to post by cashlink
 


Pilots for 911 Truth.com is a great site! Thanks for that...

No one can refute black box evidence. No one. A data computer doesn't make stuff up like humans do.



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by JimBeam

"Hahahahahah...ew eh he ow haw haw ow he haw haw... And I thought my jokes were bad." - The joker


Big fan of the movie but I was not aware I was trying to tell a joke.


You obviously have a huge credibility issue my "friend".


Says the guy that believes there is a secret corporate elite that runs everything.


It seems that you just take things at face value.


That was my problem for a short period time. I wanted to write a longer reply, but in the interest of staying on topic and keeping the post-length to a minimum, I decided not to.


If you don't understand motivation in others, how can you be motivated to discover certain truths???


For a short period of time I was not motivated to "discover certain truths." I was unhappy with the way things were going in my life and around the world. I joined the blame everything on the government bandwagon like yourself have done.

Blaming someone else for whatever ails you is just a scapegoat so you don't have to do anything to make your life better. Just like every religion ever invented. The reason that mentality is easy to jump into is because it's easier to moan and complain than it actually is to go out and make your life better.


The "go with the flow" mentality types are the most boring people in the world. Not to mention, the most unwise.


I agree, complainers are the dumbest people ever



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join