Originally posted by Sonya610
I do not project human qualities on my pets, I also don't project them on other people! My impressions are based on the individual actions of each. You do not know what you are talking about. It strikes me as a bit creepy when animal lovers speak of their companions as their “kids”, or refer to themselves as the Mom or Dad to their animals. They are not kids, they are adults, they are fully functioning members of another species. They may see us as caretakers, servants, pack leaders, or great companions, but the only ones that would view a human as a “parental” figure would be those that were raised and bottle fed by surrogate human parents from birth.

Over the years I have had many animals, virtually ALL rescues. Some I was very close to, some obviously did not even like me that much. I have had a cat for 5 years, a kitten found starving in a park, and it was QUITE obvious that the cat didn’t have any use for me. The cat loved the dogs, greeted them and showered affection on them, but despite the fact I fed him it took him 3 years before he could be bothered to greet me with the same happy meows that he lavished on the canines. He has been with me for five years now, I would not dump him for any reason, he has actually become much nicer to me over the years.

I have also had dogs that were obviously far more attached to another dog rather than to me, I have no doubt given the choice they would have chosen their canine buddy over me in a heartbeat. So you don’t have any clue about the social or emotional dynamics that go on between humans and companion animals, and when you say people like animals because it is “unconditional” love you prove you know nothing.

Okay so animal lovers not only have a wide range of mental problems, but now they also have poor social skills? Wow. I happen to make my living in large part via social skills, I am in sales. Sheesh thanks for pointing out my lack of social skills Dr. Lloyd, I will look into it.

Inappropriate PHYSICAL relations? What are you implying???? If you are implying what I think that went WAY WAY TOO FAR! Or perhaps all close attachments can lead to “inappropriate physical relationships” is that what you are saying? Because if that is what you are saying that extremely ugly implication can be turned right around on you.
[edit on 26-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Maybe you do earn your living based on your social skills, but I bet you don't voice your extreme opinions about animals when interacting with other people..

Originally posted by LLoyd45 Haven't you ever seen people act inappropriately with their pets like kissing them on the mouth, etc?

Originally posted by Sonya610
True, and very few people would have the NERVE to say many of the things that were expressed in this thread to my face in a normal social or business situation. But believe me, if someone dared say some of these things to my face I would most certainly throw back some VERY harsh opinions.

As a matter of fact I left my last job because the owner killed a small helpless animal ( harmless snake, I happen to have a snake and I do not like to see ANY animal killed sadistically for fun) in the parking lot, and he had the nerve to ASK ME if I had a problem with it later. I quit and I told him that was WHY I quit, I also told my present employer WHY I quit during the hiring process, and I clearly expressed my disgust with the human being that committed such an atrocious act. Granted these companies are in the same industry and they knew me, if I had been a stranger and confessed something like that in an interview that would probably have been a different story.

I could care less if people kiss their dogs on the mouth. Neither me or my dogs are into that, however what other people do is their own business.

I do know enough about epidemiology to realize there are very few diseases or parasites transmitted between canines and humans. Humans on the other hand are a MUCH higher disease risk, colds, flu’s, Heptatis A, to name a few are all easily transmitted between humans during casual contact. Anyone that has worked in an office knows that the amount of colds and flu’s circulating in the office varies

Well actually it did come up once, some ignorant person commented that having a dog in the office was “dirty” and I quickly pointed out that employees bringing their small children in was FAR worse. They didn’t seem to like hearing that too much. LOL
[edit on 26-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
They have no sense of right or wrong, they feel no compassion for their fellow animals, and they're driven by millions of years of instinct, not reason.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Don't tell me they don't show compassion. Don't tell me they are incapable of bonding with humans and with eachother. You have seen very little. I have seen a lot.

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Sonya610]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Voxel

Actually that is patently not true. Real animals (pets are not real animals) will often do things that we, as humans, would consider pretty horrible.

• Young eaglets will bite to death their siblings in times of less than adequate food.
  
• Most birds will kick defective offspring out of the nest to die of exposure.
  
• Fish will kill each other for territorial reasons and will often kill weaker fish for little or no reason.
  
• Male lions will sometimes kill all the cubs of a pride he has taken over.
  
• Ect..

None of these are the exception; rather, they are the rule. This is how animals live and die. From what I have seen of the natural world, it is immensely more violent than the human world.

Now ask yourself:

• How often does a human get remarried after a divorce and have their children killed by their new lover?
  
• How many times have the bullies at school killed a weaker kid?
  
• How many parents just let their sick/deformed/retarded children die?
  
• Even in countries where starvation is a problem, when was the last time a sibling killed another over food?

Humans and animals are wired remarkable similarly but humans can and do temper the instinct to kill with reason. Humans have the power to effect destruction on a level animals can not even come close to comprehending and, as a species, the numbers to do horrible things on such a scale that it would make WW2 look like a bad soccer riot. Yet we don't. Our human culture has given us a remarkable amount of constraint compared to even our closest relatives.
Jon

Originally posted by chise61

Originally posted by Voxel
Now ask yourself:

• How often does a human get remarried after a divorce and have their children killed by their new lover?
  
• How many times have the bullies at school killed a weaker kid?
  
• How many parents just let their sick/deformed/retarded children die?
  
• Even in countries where starvation is a problem, when was the last time a sibling killed another over food?

You must not watch the news very much, there are plenty of cases of children that are killed by a steparent/ boyfriend, girlfriend all the time. There are also cases of parents that lock there disabled, retarded children in closets & basements, starving and abusing them.

31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers

Originally posted by chise61

Yes they are sentient, self aware, capable of feeling love, grief, happiness, sadness, and compassion. They are also capable of being altruistic.

And what exactly makes a relationship with an animal innappropriate ?

I saw their grief when my alpha dog passed away of old age several years ago. I saw their compassion when my omega got an aggressive form of cancer a couple of months ago. They normally walked all over him as he was the omega but when he became ill they were very careful not to run past him up the stairs and would patiently wait until he was up, they treated him very differently when he became ill. I see his son still grieving over the loss of his father.

Perhaps you just can't allow yourself to see just exactly what animals are capable of because you feel it takes away from us as human beings, that is however sad, still your loss.

In the great majority of cases of children being maimed you can be sure that the fault lied with a human and not the dog.

Perhaps he realized that animals were not capable of the destruction that humans are, that they were in fact the greater creation.

Originally posted by LLoyd45In over 90% of the attacks there was no provocation involved. It was simply a matter of the dog trying to assert it's dominance over a smaller animal.

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Here's a few facts regarding dog attacks if you're interested. It's one thing to love dogs, but it a totally different ball game when you dismiss factual information offhand.

Originally posted by chise61
I've been around dogs all my life, when i was about 6 i was petting my aunts dog and she told me to get away from the dog because it was too hot and she didn't want to be bothered and was going to bite me. My aunt walked away and i continued to pet the dog and she bit me in my face.