There was a thread awhile back about some sicko in Europe who was ripping the heads off pet rabbits, draining the blood, and leaving the bodies for the owners to find the next morning. The authorities were worried that it might escalate into the guy (or gal) killing a child or other human eventually. I distinctly recall Sonya saying that she hoped it would escalate into someone's child or children being killed so the authorities would have a reason to ramp up their effort to catch the guy (or gal). That is the reason why I don't even try to have a rational conversation with the woman. I learned long ago that you'd have better luck trying to drain Lake Powell with a basement sump pump than you ever would trying to have a logical conversation of reason with an insane woman.

Originally posted by Voxel
That is why human life is far more important than any animal's life. We depend on other people in order to survive.

Oh so human value is based on their usefulness. I see. So, if for some reason the individual human is NOT useful, they have no value based on that theory, correct?

As far as whether dogs add to our society. Yes they certainly do. if you are trapped under rubble from an attack or an earthquake it will most likely be dogs are sent to find you or your precious offspring. Sniffer dogs find buried bodies, drugs, explosives, track missing people, even detect cancer in some lab samples, etc... Regular pet dogs are responsible for finding quite a few bodies that show up in parks and other recreational areas.

Most breeds of dog were specifically bred to provide a service of some type and contribute to human society in some way, tracking, herding, hunting, rodent control, protection, etc... If you think dogs have not contributed to human society over the centuries you are VERY misinformed.

If someone tries to break into my house and as such pose a threat to my life and well-being (a real possibility where I live) it will most likely be my DOGS that warn me of the intrusion, and their mere presence would probably discourage a break-in from the start.

Since the value of life depends on the USEFULLNESS of that life, I would have to say it really doesn't look so good for a heck of a lot of people.


[edit on 25-8-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Sonya610
You views are so weak and dillusional that when challenged the only thing you can do is insult the person that dared to question them. You can't even try to justify your beliefs, or come up with a hint of a rational argument, you can only lash out.

• Delusional is the person who honestly believes their animal's life is as valuable as that of another Human being
  
• Delusional is the person who actually needs to have the reasons why explained to them
  

PS:

If you want to call me names, at least learn how to spell them correctly.. It's delusional, not dillusional.

I've had police cars pass me going 95 plus without lights on before, but can we speed up to catch them and make a citizen arrest? I would of pulled over long enough to let him know what's happening and then it's off to the vet no matter what the officer says.

Originally posted by shuck
because I know that my dogs will protect me with their lives....will humans go that far??

Police officers will.

(One line reply, but poigniant enough to not need any other lines.)

Originally posted by LLoyd45
If you want to call me names, at least learn how to spell them correctly.. It's delusional, not dillusional.

So you still can't come up with one TINY bit of logic to support your opinion, but you can make petty little spelling comments.

Impressive.

Read a lot of LLoyds posts..he will push his own opinion till someone produces evidence..then when evidence ..then change it ..Petty and shallow..he is very articulate and eloquent..( lol I am a simple guy !)

And I know he dosen't like dogs..I have difficulty with people that look at animals as ..mere pets..(why would someone have a pet if they didn't understand the connection with sentient creatures??)

Lloyd ..bless you..Nice to see the naive trust in the human race!! yet they will be the instrment of your suffering ??

The "Pets that we have will give far more loyalty...than any human!! thats from my experience anyway..

The right thing that should have happened ( the dog being dead or not ) should have been an escort the the vets..,get the dog in then given them a ticket!!..now that would have been a good copper!lol


Lloyd I think you should get a dog...will do you the world of good!!lol

I think the outrage came from the officer's callous comments. To tell any distraught individual to calm down and that they can replace their pet is beyond cruel. We are not talking about a pair of sunglasses here. This was a companion.

My impression is that the dog was dying/near death when the car was stopped. (One article says it died during the stop, the others say the man came out of the vehicle crying , "she is dead. ")

I imagine the individuals driving were in a sheer panic. Probably from the moment they realized their dog was choking. (I wonder if they even attempted to remove the object themselves. ) Generally that makes for bad driving ( meaning i can see the officers point )

My heart goes out to the ppl that lost their pet.
I can only hope the officer has some intense sensitivity training on how to deal with people under emotional stress. Sometimes all ppl have are their pets.

Originally posted by Sonya610[/i

So you still can't come up with one TINY bit of logic to support your opinion, but you can make petty little spelling comments.

Impressive.

You're really disturbed if you require proof that a human life is more valuable than that of animal.. Didn't your parents teach you that when you were growing up?

Humans are thinking, feeling creatures, capable of creating great works of art, or destroying entire cities. They can perform acts of kindness or perpetrate horrible atrocities against their fellow man. Name one animal, living or dead, that can achieve any part of that?

[edit on 25-8-2008 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Humans are thinking, feeling creatures, capable of creating great works of art, or destroying entire cities. They can perform acts of kindness or perpetrate horrible atrocities against their fellow man. Name one animal, living or dead, that can achieve any part of that?

Newsflash, not all humans are capable of doing that. There are plenty of humans in many part s of the world that can only claim the use of FIRE as the distinguishing factor that separates them from their fellow animals. They do not build anything beyond a rudimentary mud hut, they simply eat, sleep, breed, hunt/gather and sometimes fight.

Now conversely there are ant and termite colonies that build very impressive little cities for themselves, and live in highly structured social orders. If it is about "building things" I guess the ants and termites would be more "self-aware" then many of the homosapiens inhabitng this planet.

1. relative worth, merit, or importance

This is the first definition of "value" as stated by dictionary.com. Notice the word "relative". What person A values may not match with what person B values.

In terms of attributing value, this topic, even though it deals with life and death, does not mean it can escape the definition of what "value" is. The act of attributing value is an inherently personal individual action.

This is why I've stated repeatedly that this argument cannot be won.

Let me give you an example. When I was 19 yrs of age I almost burned down my house when a plastic green garbage can caught on fire. I managed to stop the fire and clean up the scene so well that I thought it was a done deal. My mother questioned about the weird green stains on my carpet, the splatters on my wall and two shirts and a comforter, and the weird smell which I masked with incense. I told her it was paint. 3 days later they found the remnants of the garbage can which I stupidly told my sister to get rid of when I should have done it myself. They asked me why I couldn't tell them the truth. I told them there was no way in hell I was ever going to tell them I endangered the lives of my two little cousins and my two sisters by almost burning down the house and letting toxic fumes seep into the air.

My mother valued honesty. I valued keeping the peace and not getting sent to a psychologist or labeled a pyromaniac because I lit an unnecessary fire that burned way out of control and could have killed my family members.

Who was right? What would YOU have done? Am I insane because I value one thing over another?

The insults are appearing because values are conflicting. If you can't agree with someone, don't call them crazy or delusional. They are not. You do not know why they value what they do. They have their reasons. Why not a simple "Why do you believe that?"

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Voxel
That is why human life is far more important than any animal's life. We depend on other people in order to survive.

Oh so human value is based on their usefulness. I see. So, if for some reason the individual human is NOT useful, they have no value based on that theory, correct?

Sheesh, you just don't get the concept of interdependence. I didn't say the value of life depends on usefulness; I said that we depend on other humans for almost everything we have and need in life. That makes human life infinitely more valuable.

Consider this:
Can you imagine a world without any pets? I can it because it would look remarkably like the world we live in now. Everyone would just find some other way to waste their time and money.

Can you imagine a world with no other people? I can't. It wouldn't resemble anything either of us know at all. You and I would be dead inside of a week.

What the above means is that human life has far more value to all of US than other forms of life. See how it works? You need other people to continue existing; but your pets are optional. Therefore, peoples' lives have more value than a pet's.

Jon

Originally posted by LLoyd45

Originally posted by Sonya610[/i

So you still can't come up with one TINY bit of logic to support your opinion, but you can make petty little spelling comments.

Impressive.

You're really disturbed if you require proof that a human life is more valuable than that of animal.. Didn't your parents teach you that when you were growing up?

Humans are thinking, feeling creatures, capable of creating great works of art, or destroying entire cities. They can perform acts of kindness or perpetrate horrible atrocities against their fellow man. Name one animal, living or dead, that can achieve any part of that?

[edit on 25-8-2008 by LLoyd45]

Personally I have found that humans are by nature twice as vicious and unpredictible as any other animal in existence. I also find that most people reap the wickedness that they sew and most of them have it coming.

A dog never built a death chamber and gassed 6 million other living creatures, a fish never murdered and raped a child for amusement and a house cat never robbed anyone at gun point.

Humans lie, cheat and then lie some more. We abuse and destroy every living thing on the planet. Humans are hateful and wasteful and ignorant, we are the most intelligent species but also the most cruel and unusual. For all of the ills that humans are capable of I will admit that there are many good and redeeming qualities as well.

Just dont pretend like human beings are such a blessing to this planet and beyond reproach because the fact of the matter is we are a parasitic menace to every living thing around us.