Report: Hacker Uncovers Proof Chinese Gymnast Is Underage, page 2

privacy

Pages: << 1 2 3 4 5 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 14 times

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:13 PM by DeadFlagBlues

reply to post by LiquidMirage

Being a 14 year old under the pressure from an entire country... What would you do, you know? I have no qualms with younger athletes competing in the Olympics, and actually I think it should be free of those restrictions, but this comes down to her country lying and forcing a poor 14 year old girl to lie (if this is even validated.). I absolutely agree with her keeping her medals. She earned them fair and square, even with a disadvantage in age and experience.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:15 PM by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by Badge01
reply to post by LiquidMirage

Though I can't disagree with you, I suspect part of the motivation for her apparently dissembling may have just been fear.

I think the way to go is to have severe penalties for the coaching staff if future instances of fake age submissions are uncovered.

They spend a lot of money to test for PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs), but so far this has had tacit approval? Doesn't seem fair since being younger is as much a performance enhancer as taking hormones in a sense.

So, point taken. I just wouldn't have the heart to get behind penalizing the gymnasts who are probably under a lot of pressure to uphold the lie foisted upon them.

2 cents.

I respect the fact that you don’t have the heart to take away this child’s medal but refusing to punish her will only encourage future deception; not only by her but by others as well. I guess I feel a bit more emotional about this because it has always been my dream to compete at the Summer Olympics. With all the lying, cheating, stealing, and political nonsense going on every single day it would be nice to have something in this world in which all of us, the inhabitants of Earth, could find some degree of commonality and respect for one-another as we celebrate the achievements of our best athletes. The very spirit of the Olympics games is about making the dreams of those who worked so hard come true. Cheating not only cheapens this event but also destroys that spirit.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:15 PM by TheRooster

reply to post by azzllin

Nothing personal but help me to understand what exactly this means to you?
"azzllin Individual Seeker of Truth"

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:21 PM by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by azzllin
Why can't they leave the kid alone? she won the medal with her abilty, i couldn't care less if she was 10, she won, its beginning to sound like sour grapes to me, bad losers, not doing much for the respect of these whiners who won't drop it.

BTW i hope this HACKER is going to be extradited to face 70 years in prison? after all did he not just break into Chinese Government computers?
its ok for him to break the law, but a little Girl can't keep her glory?

This guy did not actually hack into Chinese government websites. If you would have read the links I provided you would know that. He used the Chinese search engine "Baidu" to retrieve this information. It is posted on the public domain. However, the title of this thread is misleading in that light but ATS rules state the title of the article being posted is to be the title of the thread.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:29 PM by redmage

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
She earned them fair and square, even with a disadvantage in age and experience.

That's the problem; it wasn't "fair and square". Her younger age (smaller body) presents a definite advantage in gymnastics.

Being a 14 year old under the pressure from an entire country... What would you do, you know? I have no qualms with younger athletes competing in the Olympics, and actually I think it should be free of those restrictions

It's my understanding that the "pressure" is the reason for the age restriction in gymnastics. Although being under 16 is a clear advantage when it comes to flexability, weight, and a lower center of gravity due to height, it was decided that having children under 16 representing their country at the olympics was too much pressure to place on such a young mind. It's decidedly unfair, mentally, to put that much pressure on young children.

[edit on 8/21/08 by redmage]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:36 PM by redchina

what should I say

sour grape loser.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:36 PM by Badge01

reply to post by LiquidMirage

Yeah, it's a tough call.

But my solution is to punish and disincentivize the coaches and the institution, not the athlete, who did, after all, win the medal; she did perform those awesome routines. An age restriction, though a -rule- is arbitrary.

If you think about it the rule was there to prevent undue mental stress to the participants and by enforcing it we visit enormous mental stress to them. Ouch!

So, yes, go strictly by the rules but punish and moreover -prevent- unauthorized participation.

The Chinese, istm, are playing a game of 'it's easier to beg forgiveness than petition for permission'. They're relying, no doubt on the young ages of the players to garner enough sympathy that the Federation looks the other way. Or, more probably, there was an under-the-table payoff that the Chinese worked out with the Federation.

It's part of the game both sides play, unfortunately.

So I would argue strict interpretation of the rules with some latitude on imposition of penalties.

Fair enough?

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Badge01]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:42 PM by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by redchina
what should I say

sour grape loser.

Do you actually have anything intelligent to contribute to this conversation or are you just going to continue to derail this thread?

We are discussing evidence that China has cheated at the 2008 Olympic Games by allowing underage athletes to participate and then covering it up by issuing a falsified passport.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:44 PM by Aislin

reply to post by azzllin

she won the medal with her abilty, i couldn't care less if she was 10, she won, its beginning to sound like sour grapes to me, bad losers, not doing much for the respect of these whiners who won't drop it.

Are you serious? I'm sure the US and other countries have 14 year old gymnasts that are capable of earning medals. However, the US and those other countries obeyed the rules. Why should countries who obey the rules be penalized because China chose to ignore the rules? This is about much more than one little girl's feelings. At fourteen, she has a couple more Olympic opportunities ahead of her. She will be fine. It's the integrity of the games that we need to worry about.

[edit on 8/21/2008 by Aislin]

[edit on 8/21/2008 by Aislin]

[edit on 8/21/2008 by Aislin]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:50 PM by TheRooster

In response to post by DeadFlagBlues

She earned them fair and square, even with a disadvantage in age and experience.

Sorry DFB, she cheated, her coach cheated, her country cheated. There is a teaching opportunity here for the IOC and they don't seem to care.

When you consider the level of physical stress placed upon muscles, joints, etc... at this level of competition, a 14 year old girl has a huge advantage over a 19 or 20 year old woman.

Let me guess, in your world there would be no winners or losers and everybody gets a Gold Medal? To hell with the rules?

Having watched more of the Olympics this year than in previous years, it seemed to me that the host nation has had the benefit of some very questionable calls and scoring tendancies.

These games are supposed to transcend geo/political lines and be the purest form of athleticism and gamesmanship, to allow this to go undisciplined would be criminal.

As far as He Kexin goes, let her spend the next 4 years beating the crap out of herself physically and see how she fares against the competition in 2012.

Note to LM, please forgive me for the misquote, duly corrected.

[edit on 8/21/2008 by TheRooster]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:52 PM by DeadFlagBlues

reply to post by redmage

I saw U.S. gymnasts, one with comparable size beat smaller opponents, including the girl in question. In fact, didn't Lukins win gold in all around? She's much taller than the Chinese team. I feel differently about events that transpired in the Men's Even Bar, and calling a spade a spade. "Advantage" at this level is all mental, anyway.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 03:58 PM by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by TheRooster
post by LiquidMirage
She earned them fair and square, even with a disadvantage in age and experience.

Sorry LM, she cheated, her coach cheated, her country cheated. There is a teaching opportunity here for the IOC and they don't seem to care.

When you consider the level of physical stress placed upon muscles, joints, etc... at this level of competition, a 14 year old girl has a huge advantage over a 19 or 20 year old woman.

Let me guess, in your world there would be no winners or losers and everybody gets a Gold Medal? To hell with the rules?

Having watched more of the Olympics this year than in previous years, it seemed to me that the host nation has had the benefit of some very questionable calls and scoring tendancies.

These games are supposed to transcend geo/political lines and be the purest form of athleticism and gamesmanship, to allow this to go undisciplined would be criminal.

As far as He Kexin goes, let her spend the next 4 years beating the crap out of herself physically and see how she fares against the competition in 2012.

You got the wrong quote Rooster.

I never said that!

[edit on 21-8-2008 by LiquidMirage]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 04:20 PM by DeadFlagBlues

reply to post by TheRooster

That's not a fair assessment. Nastia Luikins, an older, heavier, taller athlete had taken gold in the most important event in womans gymnastics; womens all around. Shawn Johnson, more comparable in height, but older and heavier won the gold on the balance beam, followed by Luikins for silver. Yes, the young girl was under immense pressure by an unforgiving country. If you're the best at in the world at something at 14, fine with me. That just shows what an incredible talent you are, no matter what excuse people want to hand over to your competitors.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 04:23 PM by Badge01

To look at things from a different perspective consider...

Country A petitions the Federation to invoke a 'no younger than 16 rule', because they don't have any super talented athletes that age.

They know the Chinese have figured out how to select earlier and train younger, and want to neutralize this advantage.

The Federation takes Country's sizable donation and grants this 'rule', knowing all along it's manufactured (not based on any peer-reviewed research showing it's hazardous to the menatal health).

Federation goes to negotiate an Olympics site and one of the provisions is to look the other way wrt age and claim 'it's too hard to do'. Wanting the money, the Federation secretly nullifies one of their rules.

Money changes hands, everybody happy. No other coaches complain too loudly because they are also playing the game.

So is this hullabaloo or SOP?

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 04:48 PM by GorehoundLarry

Wasn't this obvious?

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 04:54 PM by TheRooster

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

Not a fair assessment? I respectfully disagree with you. The Chinese team captain (an 18 year old I think) lands her vault on her knees and kicks Alicia Sacramone out of medal contention? What a joke! Add to that entering an athlete below the minimum age requirement established for all teams. Hardly a level playing field.

Marion Jones gets caught doping, admits to being doped up during the Olympics and cheats the actual winner out of their moment of glory. The willingness to win means nothing without the willingness to prapare. The medals are awarded based on a set of rules and the performance of the athletes. What we are truly rewarding here is all of the preperation, the days, months, weeks, years that got these athletes to this stage. If we let this slide whats next? Trans gender testing? Oh yeah that's right, they already test for that!

The lengths that some individuals will stoop to (cheat) for victory is shameful, the fact that a nation will do this on behalf of an athlete is inexcuseable. And if the IOC does nothing about it it's criminal!

IMHO, that's a pretty fair assessment.

[edit on 8/21/2008 by TheRooster]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 04:57 PM by greeneyedleo

Originally posted by redchina
what should I say

sour grape loser.

Good Lord!
First off, nice contribution to the thread.
Second, how can one be a "sour grape loser" when we are talking about a country who LIED AND DECEIVED for the sole purpose of cheating? Hmmmm. "Bueller...Buelller....Buelller?"

[edit on 8/21/2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 05:15 PM by Sonya610

www.huffingtonpost.com...

China has a rich history of age falsification in Olympics competition, especially in gymnastics. At the 2000 Sydney Olympics, three years after the minimum age was raised to 16 in gymnastics, Chinese gymnast Yang Yun competed and won a bronze medal in the uneven bars (coincidentally this event is also He's specialty). Yang's passport said she was born on December 24, 1984 and turning 16 in the year of the Games, making her eligible. She later confessed in a television interview that she was only 14 at the time of the competition and that she and her coaches had lied about her age.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Sonya610]

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 05:33 PM by nightmare_david

I think a good majority of the Olympics has been a joke imho. Nothing against the people of China, but didn't anyone see this coming?

The girl was 14 all over the place until someone mentioned the age thing. Then suddenly any website that had her listed as 14 in China went dead to return later saying she was 16.

The opening ceremony featured some CGI fireworks. Nothing to really complain about, but it was really obvious to me when I was watching that.

The girl who was singing wasn't the actual singer. She was chosen because she was "prettier". That's just pathetic and a complete insult to the actual singer. If that was never found out, that little girl would be sitting at home doing nothing while the "prettier" girl would be soaking up all the glory for doing nothing but lip synching.

China has been lying and cheating any chance they get and it's all being ignored by the IOC.

If the US was doing this stuff, they'd be all over us. Also, the little girl knows she's lying and whether she was forced into it or not, she doesn't deserve the medal. I don't care how good she is. They have rules and they're breaking them left and right and nothing's being done about it and people have the right to be angry over it. She knows what she's doing is wrong and she's no better than her coaches/government (whoever is responsible for her age suddenly changing).

I don't want anyone saying this is an "anti-China" rant because it's not. If this were the US or any other country I'd say the exact same things.

reply posted on 21-8-2008 @ 05:35 PM by Dr. Geezus

Originally posted by azzllin
Why can't they leave the kid alone? she won the medal with her abilty, i couldn't care less if she was 10, she won, its beginning to sound like sour grapes to me, bad losers, not doing much for the respect of these whiners who won't drop it.

BTW i hope this HACKER is going to be extradited to face 70 years in prison? after all did he not just break into Chinese Government computers?
its ok for him to break the law, but a little Girl can't keep her glory?

As some posters have already stated, age makes a big difference in gymnastics. But age isn't the point.. its the fact that all competitors must follow the rules.

Also the hacker didn't break into Chinese Government computers, he did a Google cache search that pulled up chinese government documents that reveal her true age. He also found that these documents have been deleted from the current databases, therefore showing that china tried to cover its tracks.

I'd hate to see this girl lose her medal but action is needed here.

Pages: << 1 2 3 4 5 >> ^^TOP^^