August 21st: NIST report states WTC-7 "Did not collapse from explosives"

Damage to columns/transfer truss caused by debris and diesel fires were the original cause given for the WTC 7 collapse by the NIST... now simple office fires do it. Neat.



Far more believe now most still unwilling to speak publicly. A lot has happened since I stopped posting here for a while in that regard. Other than on this board I know of virtually no one that still believes the "official stories". Engineers, pilots, housewives, CEOs, and at least one federal agent ... no one believes anymore. It did take me a long time starting when I was the poster formerly known as "Slap Nuts" but no one believes this crap. Sadly, many are trying to save ther IRAs from destruction, homes from foreclosure or just happy to be hanging on... I think we have moved now to where the majority feels trapped in many regards and sadly 9/11 is just one of those things they "can do nothing about".

No hand waving... from the report... ONE column:



OK.. maybe TWO charges would be necessary to replicate this chain of events then?

Done building strawmen yet? Because it's certainly not possible that I was comparing the laughable official explanations of the events that happened. But I sure do notice you were more than happy to add a ton of things I didn't even say or refer to and then beat that down.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

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You've got me wrong, my friend. I am not now and never was a truther.

I seek the truth.... but sometimes even I'll admit that a lie is more comfortable, like watching TV and taking comfort in its plastic fakery for some reason... instead of using my brain.

Although I must ask why you would think genuine truth seekers in the "Truth Movement" would revel in this sort of thing. I mean... if you don't forget about this stuff every once in a while and just enjoy life (EDIT: or at least become preoccupied with it), you're liable to have a few mental breakdowns in a row... because the hits just keep on coming. The lies just keep on being stripped away, and comfort is less and less accessible. Why would I seriously want this? Do you know how many times I've tried to forget a glaringly obvious lie with the farthest reaching implications imaginable? Do you lose sleep at night over this? Cuz sometimes, I do... when I'm no too busy trying to cover up my horrible discomfort by burying myself in my own selfishness and denial.

I've read enough on the subject. For a while, I attempted to debunk building 7, but found that all of the data in the world flung at me at once couldn't cover my eyes to what I saw.

I'm not saying that all involved in the NIST studies were Nazis or government shills, but that doesn't mean they weren't biased. What scientist trying to do his country a service while also trying to keep his funding and reputation wouldn't be biased, even if they themselves would probably not think so?
It's the unfortunate downfall of American Philosophy. We could do no wrong, unless the government admits it. Then, it's okay and we can forgive and forget, yet we're perfectly fine writing it off as a one time thing and ignoring all the other "one time things" that have happened and everything else bubbling up just under the surface because of this selfish delusion we're all locked into. What would that do to our everyday lives if we really admitted that this is all a falsehood? That veil of illusion is a very thin, but very provocative surface (like a silky fine mesh), and once the veil is removed, you can't go back to being under the veil without knowing that there EXISTS a veil and that it is brighter and clearer to see without it.

I don't blame the people of NIST as a collective. I blame the oversight of superiors, I blame economic narrow mindedness ingrained in us from a very early age, and I blame American Pride/Ignorance/Apathy/Bias.

Simple stuff.



[edit on 21-8-2008 by dunwichwitch]

Exactly my point. But, you stated it better than I did.

So, is it one column or does the entire building need wired? They can't have it both ways.

reply to post by badmedia

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Not a straw man, but nice try. It's an analogy. Also, it's a spot-on observation.
Both positions are equally implausible.


Analogy

Straw Man Argument

[edit on 21-8-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

I see pure derailment is still commonplace here.

reply to post by Pootie

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As you just engaged in. If it's a "paid dis-info agents'" attempt at derailment.......why add to it?

Stop wasting time! Stop responding to what is so obviously a 'derailment' and get on with bringing the perpetrators of mass murder to justice! Bring your superior knowledge of physics, as compared to the collective of NIST, to a sympathetic D.A. and get the murders prosecuted!

I am curious, when you go to the doctor for help, do you attempt to second guess him/her as an equal? Or, do you defer to their education, experience and on the job learning(s)?

I ask because you seem to have no problem engaging in conversation, conjecture and suppositions based on nothing but your opinion. If a doctor were to diagnosis you with pancriatitis, are you going to call him/her a ‘government shill’ and dismiss their educated opinion? Or, do you defer to their knowledge?

Of course you defer. But when it comes to the NIST, they are all “in on it”.

That’s the point.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

Give me access to the evidence and I will ensure this happens. Remember that the gov. is still withholding thousands of photos, videos and all of the remaining physical evidence in their possession and no one outside of the NIST is examining it or allowed access to it.

I deleted the rest of your post from the block quote as it serves no purpose.

This "report" totally contradicts the "preliminary" report we have been arguing against for many years. Every user on here that stood behind the diesel that we told you years ago was recovered and a a non-factor should walk away at this point. Every user that stood behind the initial NIST damage estimates, even in the face of photo-analysis that proved them grossly inaccurate should walk away. All of those posters have been proven wrong if you believe this report. Heck, the NIST threw out their entire preliminary report and gave us this now?

Many years ago I helped with this in a tiny, tiny way. It was more accurate than the NIST prelim report then and it still is today.

www.studyof911.com...

It may even be part of the reason they backed off the "falling debris damaging columns and trusses" theory.

"Our" opinion and analysis has NOT changed since the first report was released... the NIST's has and so has that of the NIST worshipers on here.

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar

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If I were a doctor myself, yes, I'd second guess it. Because doctors are always right, correct?

If I were an engineer (as Pootie and I are), yes, I'd second guess NIST. Because engineers are always right too, correct?

reply to post by Pootie

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I believe your opinion is as valid as anyone else’s. What I don’t agree with is your assertions of fact, which are really, in my opinion only, assertions of opinion.

Facts have evidence. CT's live in voids and are based on nebulous 'theories'.

I don't want our dialog to devolve into an even worse place - honestly.

Honestly not interested in getting into a personal attack/argument here. But the bottom line is you needed to add tons of things that aren't even close to what I think or believe in an attempt to discredit me and what I said. I posted my opinion on the subject, and you simply made baseless attacks at me.

You can play semantics or whatever else you want about it. I don't really care.

FINAL REPORT OF THE COLLAPSE OF WORLD TRADE CENTER 7

Here ya go Griff and Pootie.. (and Bsbray)

114 page report.

Here is your chance to read it. THEN present questions to NIST over the next two weeks.

There is contact information within the document.

have fun!


wtc.nist.gov...

reply to post by Griff

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Griff!



One doctor? Absolutely fallible. A group of doctors forming, say.......a oncology team? No.

If NIST is wrong, there are a whole lot of people wrong. Massively so. Possible? Of course, I concede that. Likely? Negative.

The fallacy is that the work we are discussing came from one or two people. It came from a larger whole known as the NIST. Hence, my team of doctors analogy.

reply to post by dunwichwitch

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Read the report and tell me what they got wrong. I will write to them myself telling them where they are in error.

Thanks!

wtc.nist.gov...

I wonder how they respond when i challenge the report on the fact that their own reports state they failed to recover any steel for testing?

It should be funny to hear them respond to that.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by badmedia

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I care! I don't want to personally insult you. I concede your specific point. That is, you did not say a lot of what I asserted. My apologies.

My mistake was coalescing the 'typical' CT position with your specific ideas. 110% my mistake.

It's true what I said , generally (JFK = 9-11) but, it was NOT true that was your point. I hope that makes sense.

I admit when I am wrong. I was wrong.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

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Page 4. Disclaimer # 4.

"NIST could not verify the actual (or as-built) construction"

That was easy.

If they couldn't verify the construction, how did they do a structural analysis?

Guess?