This could very well be what destroys Obama's presidential bid

Originally posted by Matrix1111
This is very fishy. Closing up access to the files?

First it was Obama saying Pastor Wright's anti-Americanism and racism was news to him and separated himself from him. Now the Ayers connection? I imagine the more people dig into his past the worse things will get.

Who exactly is Obama? I'm waiting for more on his father's radical Islamism beliefs. Strange that someone with such a past could rise to the top of the Democrat Party so quickly.

Now i dont have enough info yet but remember when Hillery said last fall that the Obama camp was getting increasingly negative?I suspect some within the democratic party were strongarmed into accepting him.If its true,those responsible should be arrested and investigated.

You people amaze me.....it's ok to totally condemn someone based on lies.....What if I just make up something about McCain....will you just as blindly agree with that??

If your argument can't stand on it's own legs, if it needs to be propped up with lies, it's a pitifully thin argument.....

reply to post by frayed1


So what are the lies in this case?

Fact: Obama had a relationship with Ayers

Fact: Ayers was a member of the Weather Underground, a violent terrorist group which set off several bombs

Fact: Ayers himself was responsible for bombing the Pentagon

Fact: Whether Ayers was directly responsible for the bomb that killed the police officer or not, he was still part of the Weather Underground and openly admitted that he wished the Weather Underground could have done more

Fact: Obama was caught in a lie when he said the extent of his relationship with Ayers was that Ayers was just a guy who lived in his neighborhood. He didn't say anything about working with Ayers as chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge

Fact: Obama has not responded to allegations that during his time chairing the CAC that he and Ayers funneled money that was supposed to go to Chicago schools instead to radical leftist organizations similar to the Weather Underground

Fact: Stanley Kurtz was suddenly denied access to public documents regarding Obama's time as chair of the CAC after being assured by several librarians that Kurtz would have access to those documents

Fact: The head librarian repeatedly changed her reasons for denying access to the files

Conclusions: How in the world do you conclude from all of this that there isn't anything to investigate? Where are these so-called lies that you keep talking about? Do you also see smoke coming from a pile of debris and assume there can't possibly be anything burning?


[edit on 28-8-2008 by sos37]

Originally posted by frayed1
You people amaze me.....it's ok to totally condemn someone based on lies.....What if I just make up something about McCain....will you just as blindly agree with that??

If your argument can't stand on it's own legs, if it needs to be propped up with lies, it's a pitifully thin argument.....

You don't find this fishy: The files are suddenly off limits to the public, though the files are in a public library? LOL!!!

Originally posted by sos37
Fact: Stanley Kurtz was suddenly denied access to public documents regarding Obama's time as chair of the CAC after being assured by several librarians that Kurtz would have access to those documents

Yeah, that was earlier in August, it was opened to the public on the 26th because the donor of the documents was concerned with a lot of personal information being in there, like social security numbers, confidential salary information, etc. Now they've gotten the go ahead to "open the vault", and it's been two days and I haven't heard anything earth shattering about their connection.

reply to post by davion


I had not heard that it was because of social security number, salary information, etc. that the donor had these files closed. Do you have a link with that information?

Also, there are 947 folders of information to go through. That's a lot of information. I expected it would be at least a week before we heard anything after the folders were made public again.

In an interview, university spokesman Bill Burton said that the institution only recently was made aware that it did not have ownership, a requirement for making the collection public. The owner notified the university about the absence of a signed ownership agreement last week. "The donor's only concerns regarding the collection are due to personnel information that could include names, confidential salary information and even Social Security numbers," said the university spokesman.

Source

You can also check out the PDF of what's listed in all the boxes here: A lot of boring stuff it looks like

[edit on 28-8-2008 by davion]

Ok McKids, the files are out and available to the media....

www.chicagotribune.com...

................................(Not even crickets).........................

A partial examination of the documents did not reveal anything startling about the link between Obama, the Democratic presidential contender, and Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground, a Vietnam-era anti-war group that claimed responsibility for several bombings. Ayers, who spent years in hiding, is now a UIC education professor.

These weren't backroom meetings they attended. There were OTHER private citizens present and don't you think maybe THEY don't want their personal information and going-ons made public?

We have a right to know about a potential candidate but when regular public citizens are involved in meetings and gatherings on record it is NOT our right to know about it. If I were in on one or several of those recorded meetings and Ayers and Obama may have been present, I wouldn't want my name out there in the public eye. Who would want FOX or MSNBC scavengers harassing you or your family?

Ayers and Obama were on the same side for the fight to reform Chicago Public Schools, which they did to the tune of $50 million in grant money. Not much different than The Elder Shrub and Slick Willy joining together for their Katrina fund.

Originally posted by Comma8Comma1
Ok McKids, the files are out and available to the media....

www.chicagotribune.com...

................................(Not even crickets).........................

The files are back up for public viewing? LOL!!! How much of the incriminating evidence got "disappeared?" And what were the original excuses that the librarians gave Kurtz? Geez, the story changes by the minute. This is definitely a breaking news story unfolding.


[edit on 8/28/2008 by Matrix1111]

reply to post by Matrix1111


So they're shadowy librarians sworn to protect the secret blood oath of Obama's underground Islamo-fanatics? Probably hand picked them from Khadafi's elite female assassin squads.

If you say so.

Let me know how this breaking news story unfolds and see if you can find out how all the secret documents "got disappeared".


[edit on 28-8-2008 by Comma8Comma1]

reply to post by Comma8Comma1


Read the initial thread I posted. The donor of these documents made the call to close the collection and the library has never said who the donor was. Possibly it's Bill Ayers himself.

The library is also named after Chicago Mayor Daly's family and mayor Daly is a staunch Obama supporter, so if there was incriminating evidence in those files you can bet it's most likely been removed.

However, there may be something left behind that they missed. From the story you quoted:

A partial examination of the documents did not reveal anything startling about the link between Obama, the Democratic presidential contender, and Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground, a Vietnam-era anti-war group that claimed responsibility for several bombings. Ayers, who spent years in hiding, is now a UIC education professor

That was yesterday. There hasn't been a full examination yet. Again, it's over 900 folders of documents that have to be examined.

Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by Comma8Comma1
Ok McKids, the files are out and available to the media....

www.chicagotribune.com...

................................(Not even crickets).........................

The files are back up for public viewing? LOL!!! How much of the incriminating evidence got "disappeared?" And what were the original excuses that the librarians gave Kurtz? Geez, the story changes by the minute. This is definitely a breaking news story unfolding.


[edit on 8/28/2008 by Matrix1111]

Excuse 1: It came to the head librarian's attention that the folders had not been processed and contained restricted materials. Kurtz knew this was a lie because he had documentation from the other librarians who assured him that he would have access and that the materials had been processed already. Kurtz said he knew that only 5 of the 940+ folders had restricted materials and he wanted to see the others. She changed her story.

Excuse 2: The library had been alerted by the donor of the materials that they had no donor signature allowing them to share out the materials to the public. She said they were working with the donor in question to resolve the matter. Kurtz asked repeatedly who the donor was so he could appeal to whoever it was personally, but the librarian refused to answer.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by sos37]

reply to post by sos37

The donor of these documents made the call to close the collection and the library has never said who the donor was. Possibly it's Bill Ayers himself.

It's also possibly NOT Bill Ayers.

The library is also named after Chicago Mayor Daly's family and mayor Daly is a staunch Obama supporter, so if there was incriminating evidence in those files you can bet it's most likely been removed.

Not a betting man myself but show me some proof before you suggest an entire library is behind some sinister plot to hide evidence.


Answer me this; If this is such incriminating stuff then why hasn't anyone else come forward about it? Oh wait, Obama is an Illinois Senator, so the entire state must be in on it.

If the Pentagon pulled the same maneuver it would be called a "cover-up' Why do so many try to defend a suspicious maneuver when it is a candidate? If you donated family papers to a library would you not go through them before hand and pull the personal data like SS# etc.?

There is very little documentation on Obama's leadership ability. I would like to see that documentation BEFORE it is censored. This committee was handling public funds so the defense it was “private” does not cut much ice with me. As a neutral who has not decided who to vote for this censorship makes me wonder what is being hidden.

"Suspicion is a Virtue, if in the interests of the good of the people." Patrick Henry

Very good and detailed factual information SOS37. It only further confirms Obama's ties to Ayers, which of course he has lied about time and time again.

Obama keeps hoping to outrun the truth long enough to get elected. It's good to see this won't happen though and he is called on this and other things.

I've got more to report on this. Was listening to Hugh Hewitt last night and was thrilled to hear him talking about Stanley Kurtz and how this issue has picked up a lot of steam.

Apparently after the documents were released Tuesday, Kurtz began to investigate them. He was scheduled to have an appearance on a radio talk show but apparently, at the behest of the Obama campaign or perhaps Obama himself, thousands of people clogged the lines so Kurtz could get through. Furthermore, those people demanded that Kurtz not be allowed to speak.

However, Hewitt DID interview Kurtz and he was on last night's show. The interview is 34 minutes long and can be listened to right here:

hughhewitt.townhall.com...

When you click the link, it will take you to Hugh Hewitt's page. Look under the first tab about middle of the page, 'Recent Shows' and Stanley Kurtz is the first in the list. It's a great interview and will bring you up to speed on this issue.

And keep in mind if this thing plays out, it could be the first time that a presidential candidate ever had criminal charges filed against them before an election happened, and yes, I'm talking about Obama!

I have more info on what I posted above in the second paragraph. The Chicago Daily wrote a story on it. So here's how it went down:

WGN Radio apparently was going to give Stanley Kurtz a 2-hour block of time to discuss the issue from 9 p.m. to 11 p.m. Wednesday night, the 27th.

The Chicago Tribune's story CONFIRMS that the Obama campaign encouraged Obama supporters to call the radio station - they sent an email to their supporters and gave the phone number and extension. The intent was to clog the phone lines. (Chicago Tribune ran the text of the email here)

"Tell WGN that by providing Kurtz with airtime, they are legitimizing baseless attacks from a smear-merchant and lowering the standards of political discourse," the note said.

"It is absolutely unacceptable that WGN would give a slimy character assassin like Kurtz time for his divisive, destructive ranting on our public airwaves," the note continued. "At the very least, they should offer sane, honest rebuttal to every one of Kurtz's lies."

But guess what - despite that last line in the email, this paragraph appeared in the story:

Christenson said the Obama campaign was asked to have someone appear on the show and they declined the request.

So much for defending your candidate out in the open. So much for free speech in this country. At the very least, this shows you how desperate the Obama campaign is to shut Stanley Kurtz up. Do you now believe that there is something that Obama is sweating bullets over?

Source: www.chicagotribune.com...

Originally posted by sos37
I've got more to report on this. Was listening to Hugh Hewitt last night and was thrilled to hear him talking about Stanley Kurtz and how this issue has picked up a lot of steam.

Apparently after the documents were released Tuesday, Kurtz began to investigate them. He was scheduled to have an appearance on a radio talk show but apparently, at the behest of the Obama campaign or perhaps Obama himself, thousands of people clogged the lines so Kurtz could get through. Furthermore, those people demanded that Kurtz not be allowed to speak.

However, Hewitt DID interview Kurtz and he was on last night's show. The interview is 34 minutes long and can be listened to right here:

hughhewitt.townhall.com...

When you click the link, it will take you to Hugh Hewitt's page. Look under the first tab about middle of the page, 'Recent Shows' and Stanley Kurtz is the first in the list. It's a great interview and will bring you up to speed on this issue.

And keep in mind if this thing plays out, it could be the first time that a presidential candidate ever had criminal charges filed against them before an election happened, and yes, I'm talking about Obama!

I listened to the show and from the sounds of it he didn't find anything damning. All he pretty much said was "Well, they put money into some of their own projects and they put money into other projects" and then he makes the claim that some other "more important education projects" weren't getting funding, which is subjective on his part.

From the sounds of it there hasn't been anything earth shattering or campaign destroying from the boxes.

He's also not done going through it all. 947 folders full of documentation. It's a lot to look at.

It's really amazing to me how something like this exposes the willing hypocrisy of so many. It's disappointing to see so many stanch critics of the Bush administration turn a bind eye to equally worrisome circumstances potentially involving Obama.

I spent much of the last eight years condemning the lies, abuse and graft of those currently in power. In the early years, I did much of it alone... And now it appears that regardless who wins, I will be doing more of the same for the next four years.

I had so hoped for something different.

What a shame.


[edit on 29-8-2008 by loam]