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This could very well be what destroys Obama's presidential bid

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posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:43 PM
I just heard about this tonight while listening to the Mark Levin show. Ever hear of Stanley Kurtz? If you haven't my gut feeling is that you will very soon, because Mark said the McCain campaign has gotten wind of this and has begun to make demands that the Democrats are scrambling to make go away. But let's start from the beginning ...

This is all about Obama's relationshio with Bill Ayers. You know, the guy who bombed the Pentagon and stated that he wished he could have killed many more Americans [soldiers]. He and his wife were terrorists for the 'Weather Underground'. Basically a far-left domestic terrorist group.

Well, up to now, the Obama campaign has wanted everyone to believe that there was really not much of a connection or a relationship between the two men. Apparently that isn't the case.

The article I'm referencing is by Stanley Kurtz. He says that during Obama's first run for political office, two Chicago publications featured his position as chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, of which Ayers was the founder and guiding force. Obama assumed CAC chairmanship months before his first run for office, Kurtz believes, at the behest of Ayers. And it was during this time as chairman that Ayers' own educational 'projects' received substantial funding.

With a writ to aid Chicago’s public schools, the Annenberg challenge played a deeply political role in Chicago’s education wars, and as Annenberg board chairman, Obama clearly aligned himself with Ayers’s radical views on education issues. With Obama heading up the board and Ayers heading up the other key operating body of the Annenberg Challenge, the two would necessarily have had a close working relationship for years (therefore “exchanging ideas on a regular basis”).

This clearly contradicts Obama's explanation that his relationship with Ayers wasn't anything of significance.

Now here's where it gets really good. Kurtz says all of the above is known from public record. But he says that a large cache of documents housed at the Richard J. Daley public library at the University of Illinois in Chicago is likely to flesh out more of this relationship.

That document cache contains the internal files of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. The records in question are extensive, consisting of 132 boxes, containing 947 file folders, a total of about 70 linear feet of material. Not only would these files illuminate the working relationship between Obama and Bill Ayers, they would also provide significant insight into a web of ties linking Obama to various radical organizations, including Obama-approved foundation gifts to political allies. Obama’s leadership style and abilities are also sure to be illuminated by the documents in question.

Here's where we get to the part of a major cover up and where the Democrats start sweating. Kurtz explained to Mark Levin this evening on the radio that he spoke to several librarians who assured him that he would be able to come and access the materials. He said in fact he was sent documentation that explained exactly where the documents were held and in which file folders.

When I learned that the CAC records were housed at UIC Library, I phoned and was assured by a reference librarian that, although I have no UIC affiliation, I would be permitted to examine the records. He suggested I phone the Special Collections section of the library and set up an appointment with a special collections librarian. This reference librarian also ran a search for me and discovered that, in addition to the CAC records, one file folder in the UIC Chancellor’s Office of Community Relations archive contains information on CAC from 1995.

So, according to Ayers, he boarded a plane to Chicago so he could examine these documents for himself. But just before his plane took off, he received an email from one of the librarians that access to the collection was "closed"! He replied in the email asking to speak to someone higher up to appeal the matter. When his plane landed, he found an email from Ann Weller, head of the Special Collections Department. Kurtz had asked who had authority over the collection, to which Weller replied that she, herself in consultation with the library direction made the decision to lock the collection, saying that it came to their attention that there was restricted material in the collection.

I responded to Weller by recounting the clear and repeated representations I had received from library staff that I would be granted access to the collection, adding that I had arranged my trip in large part because of these assurances. I then noted that I had studied the CAC finding aid with considerable care. It was clear from that finding aid, I said, that only five out of the 947 folders were in any way restricted.

He had also asked Weller who had authority over access to the collection. Then, she changed her story. Instead of the restricted documents argument she said that the donor of the CAC records had alerted them to the fact that the library didn't have a signed deed of gift, meaning they had no legal right to make the materials public. Weller told Kurtz that the donor was working with them to resolve the matter and hoped to have it settled within a few weeks. She would answer his question about who controlled the collection or who the donor was.

Kurtz continued his trip and insisted on viewing the single folder from the chancellor's records that he did have permission to see. He examined it and took notes and asked for the contents to be copied and mailed to him.

The disturbing aspect of this account is that the graduate student, the librarian that he initially spoke with, told him that the documents had already been processed. But when Weller told Kurtz that it had come to their attention that there was restricted materials in the collection, she also said this was because the collection had yet to be processed.

Kurtz question whether Bill Ayers or Barack Obama himself may be connected with the donor of the collection. Ayers may be the donor, himself.

Kurtz has been getting the word out far and wide about what happened (

Mark Levin tonight had said tonight that the Chicago mayor had even issued a statement telling people to leave him out of the issue. He wants as much distance from it as possible.

John McCain's campaign has apparently gotten wind of these documents and is now calling for their release (

I think Kurtz is onto something big here. Forget the Whitey tape - if these documents can prove that Obama and Ayers were funneling money to domestic left-wing radical organizations under the guise of aiding Chicago's public schools, then it's all over for the "messiah". It will do more than show Obama to be a liar and a radical, it will show how a majority of American Democrats can be so easily duped by a smooth talking snake oil salesman and enough silence by the mainstream media.

Main article source:

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:45 PM
They tried to make this a major issue in the primary campaign and it failed to do any damage, I doubt it will have an influence on the General election.

But maybe I'm wrong and ads featuring Ayers will start airing. We'll have to see.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:48 PM
We'll see. That story I linked about the McCain campaign shoving the library's 'cover up' into the public light is dated today (8/20/2008). I'll be very interested to see how this plays out.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:52 PM
Compared to Bush lying us into the Iraq war, and every other disaster he's been in charge of? Compared to McCain's employing a lobbyist for Georgia at the same time he was on TV giving it to the Russians after we, the US, poked the bear (probably at the behest of that same lobbyist)?

Please. This is just more hacked up garbage by the Republican trash talk machine.

Besides, given the track record, I'd trust a crazy on the left a lot faster than a crazy on the right. The guys on the right tend to get us involved in big, expensive wars that profit their cronies while killing Americans and damaging US national security.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:54 PM
If there is nothing to hide then why not release the documents for all to see. Isn't this one of the only leadership positions Obama has ever held, so I'd personally like to know how he acquitted himself.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:57 PM
This guy Kurtz, has not seen any evidence, and concludes by saying:

There will be time for substantive discussion later.

And he is a "fellow" no less, for and he writes for the NRO.

And he's recruiting disciples for his anti-Obama crusade, which as far as I can see, you are here to help him do just that.

That's quite a source you got there.

[edit on 8/20/2008 by schrodingers dog]

posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 09:46 AM
reply to post by schrodingers dog

Intentions aside, the overall question stands out:

If there's nothing in the documents that would be incriminating, why resist releasing them to the public?

I've never believed Obama's relationship to William Ayers was "He's just the guy who lived in my neighborhood". It's public record that the two men served in the CAC together so it stands to reason that there's more to the relationship that Obama doesn't want the public to know about.

And if there's documentation that can prove one of the front-running presidential candidates used to funnel money to left-wing radical domestic terrorist groups while he was chairman of the CAC, don't you think that would be a red flag as to what he might do given the office of POTUS?

posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 09:55 AM

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by schrodingers dog

If there's nothing in the documents that would be incriminating, why resist releasing them to the public?

I don't know, you don't know, we don't know.
So your declaration that this might sink Obama is based on information YOU don't have. God might hate John McCain, that might sink him. Same thing.

I also would suggest that if will are going to whine about a couple of documents in this case, you might want to raise you indignation meter a couple of more notches and help us get the thousands of subpoenaed documents out of the White House.

No? Didn't think so.

posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 09:56 AM
I've heard mention of this before and would love to see more information come to light on this. Regardless of this particular facet of the situation though, I think Obama needs to do a lot more explaining about his relationship with Ayers.

How in the world people don't have more of an issue with a Presidential candidate being friends with a known terrorist is beyond me.

posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 05:41 PM
Update on this issue!

I was wrong when I said earlier that Mayor Daly was trying to distance himself as far from this issue as possible. In fact, he's not, and Mayor Daly himself HAS HURT Obama even more with a nice little quote about the incident!

The Chicago Tribune ran an editorial about Stanley Kurtz and his quest for these documents in today's paper. The author alludes to the fact that Chicago Mayor Daly is actually partaking in keeping the documents' contents withheld until after the election is over.

The relationship between the ambitious Obama and the unrepentant Ayers is a subject that excites Republicans, who haven't really thwacked that pinata as hard as they might. It really irritates Obama and his political champion, Chicago's sovereign lord, Mayor Richard M. Daley.

"This is a public entity," Kurtz told us Wednesday. "I don't understand how confidentiality of the donor would be an issue."

You don't understand, Mr. Kurtz? Allow me to explain. The secret is hidden in the name of the library:

The Richard J. Daley Library.


Here's what Mayor Daly said to the whole thing:

"People keep trying to align himself with Barack Obama," Daley said. "It's really unfortunate. They're friends. So what? People do make mistakes in the past. You move on. This is a new century, a new time. He reflects back and he's been making a strong contribution to our community."

Wait, wait, wait ... Did you catch that folks???


So right there, Mayor Daly has confirmed for us that Barack Obama lied to America when he said that Ayers was "just some guy who lived in my neighborhood" (source:

The Republican National Committee called on Obama himself to step in and release the documents. So far, he hasn't so much as responded to the call. And Kurtz is worried for the safety of the documents at this point.

Yes, I know, those of you who clamor for Obama regardless of whether the man is as crooked as they come will delight in hearing that the truth on this subject will never come to light. Most of you aren't interested in truth. You've got your minds made up that Obama is a "man of substance" and "can do no wrong" and that there "must certainly be nothing to these absurd allegations". If that's true, then again I ask you:

Why lock the collection at the last minute?
Why did the mayor, a strong champion for Obama, get involved?
Why hasn't Obama responded to the call from the Republican National Committee to release the documents?


posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 09:48 PM
reply to post by sos37

So right there, Mayor Daly has confirmed for us that Barack Obama lied to America when he said that Ayers was "just some guy who lived in my neighborhood

you are taking the opinions of another man about Barack Obama.
You have no idea how he intended that statement

He doesnt know any more about Barack Obama and his relationships than you or I.

Taking this same train of logical interpretation - i could make a new thread and make a claim that God hates John McCain because SD said so - and SD prays to God.

Same argument.

posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 09:52 PM

Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
Besides, given the track record, I'd trust a crazy on the left a lot faster than a crazy on the right. The guys on the right tend to get us involved in big, expensive wars that profit their cronies while killing Americans and damaging US national security.

Really? Didn't Johnson get the US involved in Vietnam? I think he was a democrat.

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Back to the thread!

posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 05:33 PM
Another update on this issue. The University of Illinois library is suppposedly making these documents available publicly tomorrow 8/26. I would not be in the least surprised if documentation is missing, blacked out or altered. Will bring more up on this as things develop.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by sos37]

posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:05 PM
Wasn't Al Capone and and Big Bill Thompson a good working relationship for Chi town? I mean after Jim Collisimo left.

Chi town has a long history of crooked politicians and the mob. A good read is the book Captive City that names a lot of names and ties.....

posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 07:39 PM

Originally posted by sos37

This is all about Obama's relationshio with Bill Ayers. You know, the guy who bombed the Pentagon and stated that he wished he could have killed many more Americans [soldiers]. He and his wife were terrorists for the 'Weather Underground'. Basically a far-left domestic terrorist group.

I'd like to see your source for the above quote from Ayers....

I was in college during the Weatherman group's active period, and recall it pretty well......

The bombing of The Pentagon was on May 19, 1972, where they placed a bomb in the women’s bathroom in the Air Force wing of The Pentagon. The damage caused flooding that devastated vital classified information on computer tapes.

The only possible fatality from the Weatherman bombings was that of a still unsolved death of a police officer in 1970 when he was struck by shrapnel from a bomb.....that had been linked to Dohrn, according to an
FBI informant..... not Ayers. But when the case was reopened in 1999, they still did not charge Dohrn, even though they found a fingerprint on a bomb fragment.....a fingerprint that has never been identified.


Unless you count their own members that they accidently killed....

Todd Gitlin, a former SDS member and author of "The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage," harshly criticizes Ayers and other members of Weatherman for wanting to kill, even if they didn't. Gitlin said in 2001 that the only reason no one was murdered was because the first known attempt resulted in members of the group blowing themselves up instead: "OK, let's give them a medal for not killing anybody besides themselves. But they wanted to be terrorists. They planned on being terrorists. Then their bomb blew up and killed several of them and they thought better of it. They were failed terrorists.


Apart from an apparently accidental premature detonation of a bomb in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion which claimed the lives of three of their own members, no one was ever harmed in their extensive bombing campaign,as they issued warnings in advance to ensure a safe evacuation of the area prior to detonation.


So he "wished he could have killed many more Americans [soldiers]. "???
He didn't kill any American soldiers......not that I can find any evidence of.....??

[edit on 25-8-2008 by frayed1]

[edit on 25-8-2008 by frayed1]

posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 11:37 AM
reply to post by frayed1

I admit that the use of the word 'soldiers' was incorrect in the first post, and I'll edit that. When I was writing the post I stuck that word in the square brackets as a reminder to double check and change it if necessary, but I forgot to change it. The word should be "policemen".

As for the source, there are several including a book called "The Zebra Murders" - here's the passage:

"The Weathermen, who now called themselves The Weather Underground, had been operating in the Bay area since 1970 when a bomb planted in the SFPD's Park Street Station killed Sergeant Brian McDonnell and injured eight others. Other bombings around the area were also linked to the Weather Underground, and just a year before Zebra began, the FBI discovered an abandoned bomb factory they had fashioned in the Fillmore."

I do see where you are coming from in that initially, the Weather Underground was blamed for that bomb.

posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 06:50 PM
Thank you for the response.....but I'm still puzzled about you 'quoting' Ayers as stating that "he wished he could have killed many more Americans" ....even if you change it from [soldiers] to [policemen].

Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since the year 2000 stems from an interview he gave to the New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication. The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again" as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility."Ayers has not denied the quotes

The New York Times Article

That is the quote that is oft repeated and one that has been used to label him as an 'unrepentant terrorist'....but it hardly goes so far as 'wishing he could kill more Americans'....

In fact most sources do not even give them credit for killing anyone not even that SF policeman. As I mentioned in my earlier post, a fingerprint was found on a fragment from the bomb that killed Sergeant Brian McDonnell......but it could not be identified. Surely it was compared to both Ayers and Dohrn's prints and found to not match.....leaving his murder unsolved.

Between 1970 and 1974, the Weatherman took credit for 12 bombings, including one of the United States Capitol and another involving several police cars. The group always emphasized that their targets were property, not people. And, in fact, no one was injured—except, of course, some of the Weatherman's own.


an anti-Vietnam War group that protested U.S. policies by bombing the Pentagon, U.S. Capitol and a string of other government buildings. Nobody was hurt in the attacks by the defunct organization

from The Chicago Sun Times

And again the by now, famous quote...

"I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough."

from The Chicago Sun Times

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:18 AM
Ayers, Kurtz, Rezko, how many more will we hear about?

This joker hangs with the known terrorists and criminals and everyone looks the other way.

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:44 AM
Good.Blow it wide open so the world can what a fraud Obama is.That should be enough to destroy his bid and the far left's bid for the presidency.

posted on Aug, 28 2008 @ 10:52 AM
This is very fishy. Closing up access to the files?

First it was Obama saying Pastor Wright's anti-Americanism and racism was news to him and separated himself from him. Now the Ayers connection? I imagine the more people dig into his past the worse things will get.

Who exactly is Obama? I'm waiting for more on his father's radical Islamism beliefs. Strange that someone with such a past could rise to the top of the Democrat Party so quickly.

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