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Russia Warns of response to U.S. shield

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posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 


mattifikation



Russia should back down and stop growling at the eagle.


If a scenario existed where countries like Russia or Cuba could put a defense shield up along the US-Mexican border would you be ok with that?
I don't think you would,you'd see it as a direct threat.




We aren't Russia's daddy, and when they're the ones threatening to point nuclear weapons at your allies, maybe you should readjust who you consider your enemies to be.


Since the fall of Communism Russia has been one of Europe's allies.
Russia is America's bogey man,not ours.





SectionEight



bit it is impossible to explain Russia's direct threats to Poland after invading Georgia


Georgia invaded South Ossetia.South Ossetia wants to join with North Ossetia so they can be their own country.The South do not want to be past of Georgia.North Ossetia is in Russia.Russia have every right to try and keep the peace.




NATO needs to stop sitting on their hands and emboldening Russia with their weakness. NATO basically abandoned Georgia and was silent when Poland was threatened. The US is the only one standing up with a consequence to Russian aggression if they attack Poland. NATO walked away from the sandbox and the US was left standing alone to draw a line in the sand. Europe needs to seriously wake up before their weakness causes war.


You ever thought that the reason Nato is keeping quiet is because they agree with Russia?




rjmelter.



America is burdened to be the SAVIOR of the WORLD because we once beleive in freedome and one beleived that others should have it. Now there is no rest because there will never be freedom in this CORRUPT world.


No,America is like all other empire builders that have been and gone.You get involved in conflicts when you don't even need to,usually because war means money,lots n lots of money.It also means big business;Iraq is already being disected by these men.




America is Burdedned to do the right thing. and SO IT DOES.


Starting 2 illegal wars is hardly doing the right thing now,is it?




Blaine91555




You must be very young and have had terrible teachers in history. There were no "freedom fighters". Only citizens defending themselves against a takeover by the Vietcong. The Vietcong were a communist insurgency attempting to take over Vietnam by force. We were fighting on the side of the Vietnamese to prevent a communist takeover. Calling them "freedom fighters" is a bald faced lie. The Vietcong were a monstrous bunch. We were honoring our treaty to protect the Vietnamese citizens.


The Vietnam War started as a French colonial war,another name for it is the 2nd Indochina War.The US answered the French's plea for aid...
On May 7 1954,after declining American offers of nuclear weapons to help end the fighting,the French finally surrendered.Vietnam was temporarily partitioned and under the terms of the Geneva Convention,civilians were to be given the opportunity to freely move between the two provisional states.
As dictated by the Geneva Conference of 1954,the partition of Vietnam was meant to be only temporary,pending national elections on July 20 1956.But the US refused to sign the Geneva agreement,their fear of Communism was just too great.Within that refusal lay the Vietnam War.




Russia is Empire Building again.


Being angered by the US,probably their greatest enemy in history,and their defense shield is hardly empire building.






"When you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."


What treaty?
And why does the US have to defend Poland,and who from?






[edit on 20-8-2008 by jakyll]




posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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The days come that Russia will be one sixth its size today. Small nations and Siberia to remove themselves from Russia in the days to come.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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I do not understand the thinking that exsists today. Russia never went away. They went broke. No with new oil money they are back at it again. I do not want to provoke a fight either but, history shows that if you do not confront the Russians they will still take all they want. We have already barganed millions into slavery once in the last hundred years. We cannot consider for a moment doing it again. It is time for America to show that they will not appease evil ever again.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll


If a scenario existed where countries like Russia or Cuba could put a defense shield up along the US-Mexican border would you be ok with that?
I don't think you would,you'd see it as a direct threat.


No, I'd see it as a waste of their time and money. Who would they be defending? Themselves? Missiles based in Mexico would have no chance in hell of intercepting anything fired from the continental U.S. towards Russia.

What I might see as a threat, is if they had plans to put an offensive military presence near our border. Such as bombers capable of carrying nuclear weapons, for example. Or if they suddenly resumed patrols of strategic nuclear bombers around American airspace, or over our naval fleets.

Make no mistake about it, America is threatening to take measures to defend itself and its allies while Russia is threatening to nuke the U.S. and its allies unless we meet every last one of its demands. And you clowns think that makes the U.S. the bad guys!




Since the fall of Communism Russia has been one of Europe's allies.
Russia is America's bogey man,not ours.


Actually, they might have been right after the fall of Communism. But then you had the rise of Putin. Since then, Russia has threatened to move troops back to the European border and start aiming nuclear weapons at Europe again. And let's not forget that they've flown nuclear-capable bombers directly at your airspace. All this sends one message, and one message alone: "We're going to destroy you." Somehow, you're reading the message as "We love you but the United States is making us be evil!"



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by twisted_fate


You are talking about rewriting history when you seem to forget that Russia didn't start this conflict, Georgia did.


Sorry, Georgia's borders are recognized by the UN and NATO. South Ossetia is inside of Georgia. Russia simply declared the insurgents Russian's so they could invade. It is about oil, natural gas and Putin's desire to reconstitute the old Soviet Union.

My opinion? Putin knows we are getting close to winning in Iraq and pulling out; so he picked now to invade another country while we are compromised and he knows the rest of the world won't do much to stop him. He will get away with it too.

He threatened to nuke Poland! I'm sure he deserves the worlds adoration for that.


Those missiles pose no threat to Russia and are only useful to protect against missiles from Iran and other Terrorist States. Russia has been lying since day one. Do you see them withdrawing? No! Even when the whole thing is on film for the world to see, they lie with impunity. The old Russia is back folks.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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Personally I think the E.U. is eventually gonna side with Russia. Russia owns the resources, they control the spigot, without which Europe would go broke. If the E.U. takes some kind of neutral position to Russia they have nothing to lose. America doesn't give them their oil. Russia might even be less hostile towards them, for example letting more countries join the E.U. Who is America gonna protect Europe from now? Russia? Lol, Russia doesn't want to own Europe anymore. The only threat to Europe is Islamic invasion period.

This isn't about worldwide communism. This is about money. If Russia is unopposed in its own backyard their money isn't gonna stop coming in anytime soon. On the other hand, if one day America gets desperate for oil, and has Russia hemmed in, they'd not hesitate to unleash hell on Russia through proxy wars in the hope of extorting oil from them.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Merle8]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit

And who let Russia rebuild to where it is today the Democrats? The Republicans? Both? The fact is before WW2 we built Germany right up just like we are doing now for Russia.


Until this happened I thought and hoped Russia was headed toward becoming a true Democracy. When Putin eliminated the free press it started to look bad. I think this caught us off guard. How many were predicting the old Soviet would start occupying its former territory now?

As to our investment in Russia, why not prop up a government we thought was well on the road to becoming a free nation who's citizens had basic rights?

I don't think this NWO thinking applies here. Putin and his cronies are responsible for this invasion all on their own. I think we look to place the blame elsewhere at our own peril.

For better insight about the Germans and WW2 I recommend reading "Inside the Third Reich" by Albert Speer.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by mybigunit

And who let Russia rebuild to where it is today the Democrats? The Republicans? Both? The fact is before WW2 we built Germany right up just like we are doing now for Russia.


Until this happened I thought and hoped Russia was headed toward becoming a true Democracy. When Putin eliminated the free press it started to look bad. I think this caught us off guard. How many were predicting the old Soviet would start occupying its former territory now?

As to our investment in Russia, why not prop up a government we thought was well on the road to becoming a free nation who's citizens had basic rights?

I don't think this NWO thinking applies here. Putin and his cronies are responsible for this invasion all on their own. I think we look to place the blame elsewhere at our own peril.

For better insight about the Germans and WW2 I recommend reading "Inside the Third Reich" by Albert Speer.


Your logic would be fine if he had just started the spiral back into a Soviet type status. The fact is he has been been eliminating free press and opposition since at least 2001. Yet we still built up and built up these guys. On top of this we continue to surround these guys militarily almost provoking them to take a punch. If Russia was in Mexico and funding and sending military to Mexico to take back New Mexico we would probably be pissed too. On top of this if Russia had just invaded 2 countries Iraq and Afghanistan and showing these aggressive positions on our border we would be a little paranoid also. THEN to top this all off if Russia put a "missle defense" in Cuba that would be the nail in the coffin. Also Remember Georgia attacked first.

I dont think I mentioned anything about NWO I feel this is more of a bankster started war. I think the bankers need a big war to create a big mobilization so they can finance both sides and make billions to cover all these losses in the bad loans. That is what I feel this is about. Simple as that. As far as Germany and WW2 dont need to read a book I know quite a bit about Hitler and WW2 both from the governments point of view and the Nazi point of view (I look at all views not just the government fed propaganda.)

[edit on 20-8-2008 by mybigunit]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:38 PM
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This is Russias own doing, going into Georgia and then threatening Poland sealed the deal for the missile batteries and US troops that will be manning them to be in place much faster and in greater numbers than otherwise would have been.

It is my opinion that mossad and the cia working in conjunction with another meglomaniac in georgia committed numerous war crimes in sth ossettia.
This was done with the full knowledge by mossad and cia that russia would come to the defence of ossettia. Thus causing poland to stop dilly dallying around the missile negotiating.
The usa knows russia is not making an idle threat.
The usa are purposefully trying to start a war with russia.
If the usa would stop its quest for world domination then every one including the usa would be better off.
Every country's interests firmly exist within its own borders.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
their fear of Communism was just too great.Within that refusal lay the Vietnam War.


That fear was justified and lets not forget where the Vietcong got all their weapons and money. We were there for the right reasons, it was the leaders who bastardized it into the mess it became.

Be careful not to mislead people into thinking the "Communism" you mention here had anything to do with the dictionary definition. This was a proxy war that had to do with way more than what was apparent on the surface. There was nothing truly communistic (?) about what was being called Communism in this case.

As I type, Russian Troops are entrenched 30 miles from the Georgian Capitol. They have told lie after lie after lie over the last few days. They are destroying infrastructure and taking the war to civilians. How can anyone defend their actions??????

What right do they have to tell the Polish People who suffered so much at the hands of the Russians what they can and can not do? If you believe those missiles are a threat to Russia I do have a bridge for sale. They threatened to nuke (destroy) them, not shoot spit-wads at them.

Once again the world has its head buried in the sand. When have we seen this scenario before?



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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Georgia attacked first?

Why does nobody on this God-forsaken site remember that the attack on South Ossetia was in response to the actions of separatist rebels? The truth is, there have been violent skirmishes between the sides for years now.


Georgia and its breakaway republic of South Ossetia have always had an uneasy relationship. The current armed conflict has its roots in a dispute that goes back almost one hundred years.

Source: Russia Today


Unless you were alive, and on the scene 100 years ago then you're hardly in any position to say "who struck first," considering ever conceivable side in this issue has been lying through its teeth about the other since the very beginning.

It should be noted that Georgia does not have the capability to respond with precision strikes. Old school bombardment is all they have. And while a lot of dumb crap has come from the Bush administration's mouth, one very pertinent thing they said was "You don't go to war with what you want, you go to war with what you have."

Russia, however, could have easily struck from the air and decimated Georgia's tanks and military positions without ever putting boots on the ground. That would have quickly and decisively done the job of protecting South Ossetia from Georgian aggression.

Instead, they rolled in tanks and started occupying nearly half the country's landmass. That's called an invasion, not a defensive maneuver.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by jakyll
their fear of Communism was just too great.Within that refusal lay the Vietnam War.


That fear was justified and lets not forget where the Vietcong got all their weapons and money. We were there for the right reasons, it was the leaders who bastardized it into the mess it became.

Be careful not to mislead people into thinking the "Communism" you mention here had anything to do with the dictionary definition. This was a proxy war that had to do with way more than what was apparent on the surface. There was nothing truly communistic (?) about what was being called Communism in this case.

As I type, Russian Troops are entrenched 30 miles from the Georgian Capitol. They have told lie after lie after lie over the last few days. They are destroying infrastructure and taking the war to civilians. How can anyone defend their actions??????

What right do they have to tell the Polish People who suffered so much at the hands of the Russians what they can and can not do? If you believe those missiles are a threat to Russia I do have a bridge for sale. They threatened to nuke (destroy) them, not shoot spit-wads at them.

Once again the world has its head buried in the sand. When have we seen this scenario before?


I dont think anyone is justifying their actions. I think me like others feel like it was provoked. The fact is after the Soviet Union fell the Soviets pulled up and went home. They stood down. So what did we do? We sent our troops further and further into their territory. Almost a slap in the face. Of course they supplied Vietnam. We got our paybacks in Afghanistan didnt we? Aside from that Vietnam was nothing but a money making campaign for both the international bankers and the Russian and US military industrial complex. That is why that war went on as long as it did.

Not justifying anything just pointing out who are we to judge when since WW2 we have invaded at least 6 countries and overthrew at least 10.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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Obviously the USA has something to be concerned with regarding Russia.

We do not know what that is, but I will bet you it has nothing to do with the Georgian invasion... This missile defense shield has been in the planning stages for quite a long time, and the Russian opposition to it consistent. A contentious matter that has the potential to become extremely volatile. It makes no sense, it seems as though the Bush administration and NATO have concluded that there is no point in pursuing any diplomatic discourse over these issues with Russia. It is painfully clear that Russia has very few options. Accept it, or by force if necessary stop it from happening.

Asking the Russians to accept this defense system so near its borders with the potential to neutralize its defensive/offensive missile capabilities seems rather silly.

Perhaps the USA can offer the Russians a compromise, and allow the Russians to install a similar system in either or both Canada and Cuba, or perhaps Mexico??

[edit on 20-8-2008 by The_Alarmist2012]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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Ok,i've read through this thread,and i've come across some misconceptions.

The "U.S" dosent think its high and mighty.
The "U.S" dosent want war with every other country in the world.
The "U.S" dosent want to go to war with Russia.

Just the hijacked insane U.S government,and a few misinformed flag waving "patriots",who have no idea what WW3 would be like.

America IS ITS PEOPLE!
And a majority is sick and tired of all this war and threats of wars and constant fear.
We dont wanna see our loved ones sent of to wars.
We dont wanna see a percentage of our population disappear in a hot flash of white light.
The people within this goverment who are set on seeing a war with Russia.are not going to be the ones paying the ultimate price.
It will be the people of the U.S and the countries that get envolved citizens.
So people wake up,put down the kool aid,and put the flag in the closet.
Be a human first!Then a patriot.
And it would be nice if there was some reasonable,logical way to put a stop to what our governments doing.
But this is real life,and not V for Vendetta,so theres not alot we can do.
Hopefully,people can come to their senses,soon.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by Black_Fox
 


You're really a great american who really understand. If more americans would be like you, your country wouldn't be making such bold moves and threats. The american people are like every people in the world, they DON'T WANT WAR. They want to be let the fark alone, have freedom, have children, have a happy life.

Those nutjobs in the White House were called ``The Crazies`` back in the day, it's still true today. They wanted to win the Cold War by military means, aka nuclear war. THEY ARE NUTS. And the Russian government knows it. Until we get back our government and put sane people in government, we can't be sure that WW3 won't be launched... by NATO out of greediness, or by Russia out of FEAR.

This is much more dangerous than the cold war because MAD doesn't exist anymore.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by Merle8
 


This is true. However, Russia depends on the EU for economic growth as well. If Russia stops selling to the EU, the EU will not be the only one going broke.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:09 PM
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The Russian point of view is well represented on ATS, as might be expected from a conspiracy aware forum, as the Russians seem to feel that the world conspires against them.

A few points:

Russia has no U.N. or allied support for it's actions in Georgia. The comparison with U.S. action in Iraq and Afganistan is therefore invalid; the United States took it's case to the U.N. and won.

Russia tolerates military commanders making nuclear threats against countries like Poland, this insanity would mean the instant removal of an American General in the same position.

There seems to be no sympathy for innocent people in Georgia displaced by the Russian invasion or the occupation of soverign territory of another state. The Russians are in violation of the U.N.charter in this respect, as well as thier stationing of "peacekeepers" in Georgian provences.

Disagree as you will, just don't be sending any Polonium tea bags this way/



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by mybigunit

Also Remember Georgia attacked first.


That, according to Russia, which I think has the distinct possibility of being mired by falsehoods and inaccuracy's.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by rjmelter
I can halfway through all of this debate see the Secret Government Grinning laughing at everyone here debating over all of this.

All the innocent lives that will be given to the cause of global superiority...

Once they are done trying to conquer the Earth they will be bored and go back to playing golf until something happens and they can control the people some more.

So back to the guy grinning...

Hes grinning because all of this is being faught over oil. Iran promised Russia Oil and Americ is threatening them because if they go to war with Iran they wont see it for years.


All of you look in the mirror. Draw a Circle around your face and label it.

Im a pawn. Im a usuless foot soldier

I will die for nothing

NOW that your done doing that... think. All this is nonsense... pure and simple HUMAN GREED.


No circle for me, I already have my bugout bag.

I have seen this coming for years, and the ppl that want this
war carved their message in stone 28 yrs ago for $50,000 in cash.

en.wikipedia.org...

The practice mock human sacrifice with a taped voice of a
human crying out in anguish at the time of sacrifices death.

en.wikipedia.org...

And they call themselves christians, that one REALLY has me laughing.

The thing is Russia is not up for their plans, and has been paying
attention, and they are ready for the ENDGAME:

en.wikipedia.org...

www.globalsecurity.org...

Alot of ppl see their old bombers and laugh and think they drop
bombs, but they don't drop bombs anymore.

They are now just a flying missile Silo for a Stealth Cruise Missile
that can carry nuclear warheads.

www.globalsecurity.org...

Their ships and subs carry these things too.

Most ppl think of the Russians are "washed up", but let me
assure you that is not true.

My cave to the west of this major fallout zone is selected,
my supplies are buried and I am waiting for the escalating
events to start beginning in rapid succession.

It almost happened during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and
here we are again with Russia talking about staging their
planes with those Stealth Cruise Missiles in Cuba, Venezuela,
and Algeria.

en.rian.ru...

So unless you believe in the Rapture fantasy, you need to
make a plan for what is coming.

www.ki4u.com...

Good Luck to All !



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Russia needs another cold war. It will help to restore their power to what is was before their economic destruction. I think the whole thing is pretty simple really. It goes like this.

Russia needs to build an economy... what's the best way to do it? Well, let's pick a target that the US won't mobilize over, but cares about say.... Georgia. Then the US will feel the need to flex its military muscles. In response to that Russia will make idle threats. In response to that the U.S. will make idle threats. Therfore Russia has created a new market in which to build an economy.... Its fear mongering, really.

Russia and the US have no intention of fighting each other. Its a beneficial solution to an economic downturn.

The US should make a move now if they want to extinguish a cold war. However, the political situation here is fragile and the military is extended (notice I didn't say overextended). Most Americans can't see Georgia being the cause of a major war... hell most Americans thoughT Georgia was just a state until two weeks ago.

So in checkers terminology.. King Russia. Russia will now proceed a cold war justification for an economic upswing and an increase in military spending. Give Russia 5 years and they will be a much more formidable opponent. Then we will be in a REAL cold war... not just a cold war of words.

For the US, this should be a justification for all of the cold war era projects that were developed for an enemy that doesn't exist anymore.

And then again, there's always the Iran WHO? theory. Russia distracts us from invading Iran. I don't know that GW could get Americans on-board for another campaign in the middle east when Russia is threatening to nuke us in our own backyard.

And then... there's always the influencing of the US elections. Perhaps Russia wants McCain, for whatever reason. McCain may have more to offer to Russia than Obama. By threatening a cold war you can almost assure that another republican will get elected because Americans don't feel safe with a democrat in war times.

There's many options here, and perhaps it encompasses all of them. I think Georgia and Poland are pawns and the Chess game has officially begun. I'm going to go ahead and build my bomb shelter now.



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