Russia's new nuclear challenge to Europe

I like America, I like the people.

With that said:

America likes to do its own thing in the world. After 9/11, they kicked arse in Afghanistan. At first, I actually supported the idea, but then talk started of invading Iraq, and I became suspicious of their original motives.

Cue invasion of Iraq. Nothing to do with 9/11, and it was clear from the start that the WMD story was bogus. Our most out-spoken, but highly respected scientist who claimed there were no WMD in Iraq winds up dead. Hardly a co-incidence.

Cue the problem with Georgia. Georgia attacks South Ossetia. Russia responds in a not-dissimilar fashion than the US did to Afghanistan after 9/11.

They have a short 5-day (or so) war, and pull out again.

America gets upset and says "this is the 21st Century - you can't just invade sovereign nations like that". Hypocrites. Russia reminds them of Afghanistan and Iraq in light of 9/11.

NATO and Europe side with Georgia (who were the original aggressors).

The reason? Because the West doesn't like the fact someone they don't control is throwing their own weight around at their own will.

Assuming what I've read about the conflict so far is correct, then I back Russia on this one. America et. al., thinks they do what they like to other countries as it suits them, but complain like crazy when another country does exactly what America does!

I call them hypocrites.

As for this nuclear shield - Russia has said it doesn't like the idea, and even proposed a solution some time ago (which might have actually worked out, but as always, you don't know what is being said/threatened behind closed doors).

It seems that America has just signed this deal with Poland to stick two fingers up at Russia. The fact the Polish have changed their minds in light of the Georgia/Russia conflict suggests something fishy.

Given the way the West is reacting to Russias position, I can see why Russia is now arming its fleet with nukes.

The whole thing has got out of control. Again, assuming what I've read previously about Georgia and South Ossetia is correct, this whole thing over the missile defense shield is just childish.

Why are we backing Georgia anyway? Georgia attacks Russian citizens - Russia responds.

Terrorists attack US citizens - the US responds.

What's the difference?

Russia acted on its own, and of its own will without the "yes" from the US. For some reason, the US, and NATO feels threatened by this.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

I can see where pityocamptes is coming from. You just get so sick and tired of the U.S's lies, propaganda, brainwashing tactics from the media. That people buy into it, thus it creates another conspiracy that wraps us up and we go into frustration and get distracted while the U.S does something sneaky and covers the blindfold over our eyes. You do know what is truly happening in the U.S. Tell us honestly of how reliable our little president Bush is. What good things did he do? How many times did he lie to us? How many missions performed by the U.S were successful? How much money did the Bush Adminstration spend on? How can the president be trusted anymore? Do you trust him? Why does the U.S have to get involved with anything, but yet makes matters worse?

I can tell ya that I'm damn sick and tired of what's going on in the U.S. I'm not talking about the average american citizen. I'm talking about the leaders that control the U.S. pityocamptes means that too. So pityocamptes means no offense to you guys in America. It's only to corrupt political leaders that have failed to lead the country.

To make things better the people should run the country, not the government. If you have the government running the country, then you have a big problem, and say goodbye to your freedom.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Shrukin89]

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by xmaddness

 

Since when did Georgia become a member of NATO? News to me.

I should have been more clear in that I was meaning an "ally to NATO members", not a "member of NATO". I have corrected it. Thank you for pointing that out.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit


Cue invasion of Iraq. Nothing to do with 9/11, and it was clear from the start that the WMD story was bogus. Our most out-spoken, but highly respected scientist who claimed there were no WMD in Iraq winds up dead. Hardly a co-incidence.

Cue the problem with Georgia. Georgia attacks South Ossetia. Russia responds in a not-dissimilar fashion than the US did to Afghanistan after 9/11.

They have a short 5-day (or so) war, and pull out again.

America gets upset and says "this is the 21st Century - you can't just invade sovereign nations like that". Hypocrites. Russia reminds them of Afghanistan and Iraq in light of 9/11.

Many people seem to forget that in the Iraq case, there was UN sanctioning of almost 99% of what happened in there, and that Sadam's regime did in fact use nerve agents (WMD's) against its own people. UN and the UN security Council spent years trying to deal with the Iraq problem with sanction after sanction.

I do not recall the UN having any idea of what was about to happen in S.O. or in Georgia. The proper channels were not taken by Russia. This is why there is so much more to this than just calling America "Hypocrites".

Many seem to forget this.

Can't we all get along...

Originally posted by pityocamptes


The BEAR is back, and with a vengence. Personally, I hope they kick ass. The world is tired of being controlled by the neoCONS...

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

What are you a nazi? Are you seriously proud to be a piece of garbage? That's pretty pathetic that you think you're superior, and if you aren't a nazi, don't fly a swastika in your image.

Originally posted by pityocamptes

Originally posted by SectionEight

Originally posted by pityocamptes
reply to post by xmaddness

 

Nope not a nazi. The avatar is the flag for the german police. We are living in the 4th reich - look around, do you REALLY think America is what she was even 50 years ago??????Hmmm put it together....

Russia has EVERY right to do what she is doing. Listen, people are tired of America's tyranny. Democracy in Iraq? Thats an oxymoron - those people would not know democracy if it bit them in the a$$ - they have been rule by tribe and dictator for thousands of years, what makes anyone think our way is correct?

So those people are incapable of adapting, kind of like oh lets see, a lower form of human? Perhaps you are a nazi after all.

Russia is now treading on very thin ground, NATO is not who they are facing, it is the US in plain language, not political mumbo jumbo.

The notion that the US is stretched thin is a myth. The US armed forces are designed to wage a world war on two fronts globally. Iraq and Afghanistan are mere skirmishes compared to what the millitary is designed to face.

Using your analogy, lets pretend that the US was a weaker power and some muslim country was a superpower. Lets suppose that the Muslim country overthrew the our government and established their own, with their own way of laws and customs - things unfamiliar to the majority of Americans. Do you REALLY think that the people here could adopt and convert to Sharia law over night? Reality says emphatically NO!! So given this comment: (So those people are incapable of adapting, kind of like oh lets see, a lower form of human? Perhaps you are a nazi after all.) you basically are saying that Americans are a lower form of life?

Get a grip dude, and stop calling me a Nazi - I explained very well above why that arguement was flawed, or can't you read? - maybe you should do some reading instead of spouting non sense.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by pityocamptes]

your analogy sucks because our customs and laws are much better than some muslim countries bullcrap ways of running things. We can do as we please, and btw, america IS pretty much is in charge of the world fyi. Get used to it. Noone can stop us even if they wanted to, and that includes Russia. USA ftw

[edit on 21-8-2008 by m4j35t1c12]

reply to post by m4j35t1c12


What are you a hillbilly?
You call the guy a nazi and point fingers at him and than your post directly below it you act like a nazi yourself.If you replace America with Germany in your words what do you get?And no im not getting in to the argument whether the OP is a neonazi or not, i really don't care.Im just calling the pot black

Originally posted by Azador
reply to post by m4j35t1c12

 

What are you a hillbilly?
You call the guy a nazi and point fingers at him and than your post directly below it you act like a nazi yourself.If you replace America with Germany in your words what do you get?And no im not getting in to the argument whether the OP is a neonazi or not, i really don't care.Im just calling the pot black

Uh no... I'm an american, but thanks. What are you, retarded?
It's obvious that America is the best country to live in law-wise, and as far as human rights and equality go too, so his analogy fails. That's just the facts, not me being biased towards america. I guess his signature is like some German police thing but he IS just putting it up there to draw attention to it. Most people don't know that, and will obviously assume he's a nazi. I'm so tired of people ragging on america though. If you don't like us, just stfu, and if you live here, gtfo.

Fair enough you love your country and i love mine!I know many Americans some i talk to almost daily and are some of the greatest people but its attitudes like this

your analogy sucks because our customs and laws are much better than some muslim countries bullcrap ways of running things. We can do as we please, and btw, america IS pretty much is in charge of the world fyi. Get used to it. Noone can stop us even if they wanted to, and that includes Russia. USA ftw

That everyone gets so sick of it makes you look like an ignorant toss.I mean if your typical attitude here is going to be

If you don't like us, just stfu, and if you live here, gtfo.

Your going to have a short stay.If you really love your country do it a favour and think before you speak because it really is full of great people.

p.s i know of topic looks like im oing negative again



mod edit: Please use quote tags instead of code tags for text please.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Duzey]

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Originally posted by m4j35t1c12
[SNIP!]

I lurk in BAN, and rarely post replies but honestly.
You came in here calling names and now your telling people to "F Off"?

Try to at least show some respect around here.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Xabora]

reply to post by Xabora


It's hard to be nice to people when they act like their you know what doesn't stink. If you people wanna ban me I really don't care. I can read this forum without being a member. But I will not be censored when I'm stating my opinions. My post did not warrent being deleted. There was nothing offensive in it.
That ignore button is nice. I don't even have to read that Mog's reply lol.
[edit on 21-8-2008 by m4j35t1c12]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by m4j35t1c12]

If the evil genocidal imperialist American empire dares to attack Russia, Russia must vaporise and obliterate USA with nuclear weapons in response,

this is the only way , that Russia can save world and mankind from the jaws of Genocidal US empire , or else, USA will drive mankind to extinction by imperialism,Global warming,nuclear weapons,genocides,starvation etc ......

God bless christian orthodox Russia in the battle against Satanic genocidal american empire of evil , aka the great Satan





[edit on 21-8-2008 by manson_322]

Originally posted by manson_322
If the evil genocidal imperialist American empire dares to attack Russia, Russia must vaporise and obliterate USA with nuclear weapons in response,

this is the only way , that Russia can save world and mankind from the jaws of Genocidal US empire , or else, USA will drive mankind to extinction by imperialism,Global warming,nuclear weapons,genocides,starvation etc ......

God bless christian orthodox Russia in the battle against Satanic genocidal american empire of evil , aka the great Satan





[edit on 21-8-2008 by manson_322]

I didn't expect anything else from you, but really you use the nuclear anihilation threat so frivolously that it only makes you out to look a fool, you berate Bush as a "warmonger" at every given opportunity then talk of crushing people with nuclear weapons, you hyocrisy is there for all to see!!!

Anyway back to topic, at first i was fully supportive of this US missile shield and believe in the threat to protect Europe, but now i feel there is something here that we dont know about, something about this whole thing that behind closed doors the Russians know full well about. My guess is that this missile defence is a completely new system, that may have the ability to neutralise Russias deterrant. I mean have you seen the black budget over the years, its astronomical and i think its perfect feasible that the US now wants to implement it. The Russians may not want to declare as such as it will make them look weak. This is just an idea i have in my head, so please shoot it down if anybody has information to the contrary?!

Originally posted by m4j35t1c12

Originally posted by Azador
reply to post by m4j35t1c12

 

What are you a hillbilly?
You call the guy a nazi and point fingers at him and than your post directly below it you act like a nazi yourself.If you replace America with Germany in your words what do you get?And no im not getting in to the argument whether the OP is a neonazi or not, i really don't care.Im just calling the pot black

Uh no... I'm an american, but thanks. What are you, retarded?
It's obvious that America is the best country to live in law-wise, and as far as human rights and equality go too, so his analogy fails. That's just the facts, not me being biased towards america. I guess his signature is like some German police thing but he IS just putting it up there to draw attention to it. Most people don't know that, and will obviously assume he's a nazi. I'm so tired of people ragging on america though. If you don't like us, just stfu, and if you live here, gtfo.

No, I am not a nazi for the umpteenth time. Yes, I have purposely used the Police Flag and Quote as a means for people to THINK!!! Things in America are changing fast - we are becoming a state, in many forms as the German state existed in 20-30's. Hitler slowly changed laws, rights, freedoms, and the people were complacent enough not to notice, so long as these freedom altering laws and edicts were established for their perceived "security".

The Quote from Hitler, is right on, and although he did not ascribe to it within his actions, per se, the individual thoughts of A MAN do trump the collective of the many, especially within AMERICA as the government and Constitution are based on WE THE PEOPLE as the singularity that makes up the whole - yet in America today we see the trend towards securing less freedoms under the guise of "freedom" and be damned the thoughts of the MAN for the benefit of the MASSES....

...and when the MASSES become cowardly in that they fear the power of the government, and have had all of their rights relenquished under the guise of freedom, than just as the quote indicates - not ONE brave man will arise or compare to the MASSES who have given up their individuality and freedom to the State. Even if such a man appears he will be quickly shot down by the powers that be, and ridiculed by the MASSES for being unpatriotic...

With regards to topic, these words become relavent in that media, government, etal can sway the masses and blatantly LIE about who started what and where (as in the case of Georgia). It also is relevant in that the vast majority of Americans and others do not want war, wish we would mind our own business and shine, not as a global war machine, but as something for others to envy and adopt. Unfortunately, as previously indicated the government could care less and will impose measures to secure our "freedom", when in reality it causes terror, and pushes other nations into corners and actions that they would nomally not take.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by pityocamptes]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by pityocamptes]

Russia will not force a confrontation with the US because they cannot win. The reason for the Georgia confrontation is Iran. If Russia controls Georgia, then they have a direct route into Iran, allowing them to provide troops for Iran in case of a military confrontation between the US and Iran. Such a confrontation will occur, if Iran attacks Israel. It also allows Russia access to Iraq. A pipeline could be constructed from Iraq, across Iran and Georgia into Russia.
The US and Europe must stand up to Russia. Unfortunately Europe doesn't have the cojones to back our play. Instead, they will cower in the corner, expecting us to do something, then they will dog on us for being bullies, imperialists, and war mongers after we pull their bacon from the fire.
I am sick and tired of everyone dogging on this country.
In spite of what the bashers say, we still have more freedom than any country in the world.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
Russia will not force a confrontation with the US because they cannot win. The reason for the Georgia confrontation is Iran. If Russia controls Georgia, then they have a direct route into Iran, allowing them to provide troops for Iran in case of a military confrontation between the US and Iran. Such a confrontation will occur, if Iran attacks Israel. It also allows Russia access to Iraq. A pipeline could be constructed from Iraq, across Iran and Georgia into Russia.
The US and Europe must stand up to Russia. Unfortunately Europe doesn't have the cojones to back our play. Instead, they will cower in the corner, expecting us to do something, then they will dog on us for being bullies, imperialists, and war mongers after we pull their bacon from the fire.
I am sick and tired of everyone dogging on this country.
In spite of what the bashers say, we still have more freedom than any country in the world.

Sorry to break it to you but Georgia doesn't border Iran or Iraq,but European countries(NATO) hands down, is the largest military union on the planet,the more reason they need to be carefull.Perhaps Armenia or Azerbaijan will become the new proxy battle ground. Russia will never force a confrontation with the US(NATO) because NO ONE WILL WIN.







[edit on 21-8-2008 by all2human]