Plane crashes on takeoff in madrid, spain - "146+ Dead"

Plane crashes on takeoff in madrid, spain - "many dead"

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.telegraph.co.uk
www.timesonline.co.uk


Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 20/8/2008 by Mirthful Me]



[edit on 20-8-2008 by asala]

Another absolutely tragic aircrash.

It is still unclear how many people have been killed.
Latest reports suggest up to 45.



news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 20/8/2008 by Mirthful Me]

"Spain's government says at least 45 people have died. But there are fears the number could rise to 150"

TV images show a column of smoke rising over the Barajas airport.

Reports say the accident happened as the craft was taking off from the airport's Terminal Two, bound for Gran Canaria.

The Madrid daily newspaper El Mundo said the aircraft broke into two as it crashed off the runway near Terminal Four.

It added that the plane's left engine caught fire during take-off.

Other reports said the accident occurred when the plane was making a second attempt at take-off.

It is understood there were 163 people on board the Spanair MD-82 plane.





On front page here: news.sky.com...




[edit on 20-8-2008 by pmexplorer]

Oh dear. That is sad news...

From the sounds of the reports, it's going to chalk down to shoddy maintenance.


Here's the scary part about high fuel costs, the airliners have to make up for the loss somewhere... some of them might try backing off on maintenance before deciding to bankrupt.

Or... it could have just been your typical maintenance screwup.

Very sad indeed! My brother lives there so im going to contact him and see if he can update anything,

My thoughts are with all the familys of those on board, And i really hope that more people survive,

Sad sad news

Theres a live feed on Skynews also Live Feed,



[edit on 20-8-2008 by asala]

Indeed, sincere sympathies to all of the families and friends
with loved ones aboard.

Latest reports are saying more than 100 dead. there were 173 on board.

May they rest in peace.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by pmexplorer]

Geeze over 100, Thats just terrible,

So this was a 2nd attempt to take off from that airport? the first one they reported "alleged" failuer

* Fewer than 30 survivers, many not thought to make it the night

News conference in about 10 min,



[edit on 20-8-2008 by asala]

146 people have now died

Time line of this crash
link

updates:

• Medical services- counted 27 survivors,
• 173 on board
• Black Box has been found







• Aircraft broke in 2 parts as it crashed
• Plane hit the ground (grass area) near run way
• Passengers’ warned they may have to change plane sue to problems just before take off,





[edit on 20-8-2008 by asala]

Udates:

• Nationality’s known on board so far is 4 Germans, 2 sweeds, 1 of which is in hospital
• Plane was an MD 82
• 166 passengers’ and 6 crew on board, (Figure varying)
• 28 survived
• 19 survivors Critical
• Plane was full of fuel ready for its trip


[edit on 20-8-2008 by asala]

Was reading another post in breaking news forum about a kid pointing Lazer at a plane and blinding the Pilot, and then i switch ATS off and watch TV only to hear about what has happened about Madrid. I feel freaked by it like some sign, I have to admit ATS does have its spooky side when it comes to coincidences with masses of minds working together like one energy and connections. Many people have written here about this one conciousness thing and have experienced it with ATS since all minds are trying to figure out the beyond.

The MD-80s are shabby aircraft. They even violate the redundancy mandates for avionic systems, as their tail stabilizer is held by only one bolt. I would refuse to fly on them.

That said, I don't know if the plane was at fault here, but chances are it was and needs to be thouroughly investigated. This ties into the American Airlines fleet grounding a while back possibly.

One for air heads to keep an eye on, this type is a problematic airframe.

reply to post by Zepherian

---

Have been looking into that, it seems you are indeed correct.

Skynews.com have compiled the following :

MD-80 Series Accidents History:


* November 30, 2007 - MD-83 Atlasjet Flight 4203 crashed into the southwestern province of Isparta in Turkey, killing all 57 passengers.

*September 28, 2007 - MD-80 Flight 1400 landed safely after the left engine caught fire. It was heading for Chicago.

*September 16, 2007 - MD-82 One-Two-GO Airlines Flight 269 crashed at the side of the runway and exploded at Phuket airport. More than 80 killed

*August 16, 2005 - MD-82 West Caribbean Airways Flight 708 crashed in northwest Venezuela killing all 152 passengers and 8 crew

*November 30, 2004 - MD-82 crash landed in Surakarta, killing at least 25.

*May 7, 2002 - MD-82 China Northern airlines Flight from Beijing to Dalian crashed, killing at least 111.

*October 8, 2001 - MD-87 collided with a Cessna jet during take-off at Linate Airport, Milan. 118 were killed.

*January 31, 2000 - MD-83 crashed in the Pacific Ocean. 88 killed.

*June 1, 1999 - MD-82 American Airlines flight overshot the runway. At least 11 died.

*June 7, 1996 - MD-88 Flight with Delta Airlines. 2 killed.

*October 26, 1993 - MD-82 China Eastern Airlines Flight. 2 killed.

*December 27, 1991 - MD-81 crashed in Sweden. All aboard the plane survived.

*June 12, 1998 - MD-81 Argentinian flight. Killed 22.

*August 16, 1987 - MD-82 crashed shortly after take-off from Detroit. All crew and passengers died except a 4 year old girl.

*December 1, 1981 - MD-81 crashed in Corsica, all 180 passengers were killed.


Shocking. Shocking

[edit on 20-8-2008 by pmexplorer]

God Bless Them! I tell you one thing, I don't fly anymore. I don't think the Airlines has qualified people to maintain those planes. That's scarry as hell!

I just felt terrible when I read it. God bless their families and those who are in critical condition.

An awful tragedy. I don't know what else to say

I am really sorry for the victims, their families and friends!

I flew from Barajas Airport in Madrid last week ...

This is another nail in Spanair's coffin.

However, I will fly again! Compared to other ways to travel, flying is still among the safest. Yes, unfortunatelly a plane accident is still, usually fatal... But despite the many milions of people flying every year all over the world, they are generally much more likely to die in a road accident than flying.

This is of course a tragedy though - and a terrible time for everyone involved.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by zamolxis]

Just to sadly update,



• The Death toll is now 153 killed in this tragedy.
• 20 of the killed where children
• 2 babies also among the deaths,
• 17 people have been identified


[edit on 20-8-2008 by asala]

reply to post by pmexplorer

---

That's a horrendous list..

Take-offs are the worst time for badly maintained/designed planes.. Huge amounts of mechanical strain,worst angle for loss of power and no height to try and generate lift..
They should have pulled the flight after the first sign of a problem.
What a needless waste of life.

Hardly surprising, considering how many aircraft are in service. It is actually a very good aircraft, hence why so many are being operated. If it was no good, airlines wouldn't buy it. I'll fly on one any day.


Why? Note that MD-83 is a different aircraft to the MD-82.

EDIT: The "why": crashed on approach to Isparta after pilot misplaced their racetrack for rwy 05. The aircraft hit a 1,500 m high mountain top and all aboard died.


The engine has nothing to do with MD. MD-80 is different to MD-82. It's considered a "classic" by pilots of the type.


That was pilot error. Too high, too fast in crap weather conditions. He shouldn't have landed (assuming he wasn't low on fuel).


Why?


Why?


The Chinese can't fly if the AP fails!! It's a bit of a joke in aviation circles (although I'm sure the guys themselves are well-meaning).


Self-explanatory. Not mech failure. Not the same type as MD-82. See MD-83.


Why? Not the same type. MD-83 is a long-range version of the MD-82 with different power plant.


Overshoot due to pilot error? Not mech failure?


Why? Not the same type as MD-82.


China again...


Why?


Why?


Why?


Why?


Depends on the reason.

Not many considering the age etc.. Before the Airbus A320 entered service there had been 3 crashes.

The number of "Why" in this post is to make a point. Some info on the MD-8x family imminent.

IIRC if you get type rated on the MD-82, you can only fly the MD-82.

From a great MD-8x resource: www.md80.net...

Shows once again how wrong/mis-leading the MSM are on all things aviation. If they consistently get this wrong, makes you wonder just how wrong the rest of it is, too.

Some info on the MD-8x Series: www.boeing.com...

Background on the MD-8x: www.boeing.com...

[edit on 20-8-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

en.wikipedia.org...



Fear mongering. For you nonquals, he is referring to an accident... Alaska Airlines 261...

• The jackscrew is a mechanical system, not an avionic system.
  
• The jackscrew is not a bolt, it's a jackscrew.
  
• ALL other aircraft except the L1011 have a SINGLE jackscrew.
  
• Having dual jackscrews DOUBLES the chance of failure... one failure jams the whole trim system.
  
• Alaska Airlines did NOT use the correct lubricant.
  
• Alaska Airlines increased inspection / maintainence lubrication intervals DESPITE being warned by the FAA NUMERIOUS times.
  
• In order for this design component to be certified by the FAA without any fail-safe provision, it had to be considered "extremely improbable". This was defined as "having a probability on the order of 1 x 10^-9 or less each flight hour.
  
• The pilots did NOT follow procedure. Had they of not engaged both primary / alt trim motors at the same time, the threads would not of sheared. The plane would of landed, albeit with some difficulty (trim jam); just like a plane with an infinite amount of jackscrews.
  

Perhaps if people operate aircraft PROPERLY like they've been WARNED & TOLD we wouldn't have these incidents. It's like taking airliners for aerobatics then blaming the manufacturer if it crashes. Or blaming your car manufacturer if you crash while drink driving.

Perhaps you should learn about aviation and not pay attention to sensational TV shows like Air Crash Investigation?

MD-80 Series Accidents History:

Them accidents you listed were meaningless. They fail to take into account dosens of factors such as how often the aircraft flies, why they crashed, what year were they made in, & what country they're operating in.

Overall, the Md-80 safety record is FANTASTIC.

www.airdisaster.com...

Why? Not the same type. MD-83 is a long-range version of the MD-82 with different power plant.

The md-81/2/3 are pretty much exactly the same aircraft that have a common type rating. The only differences are extra fuel tanks in some variants, differant weight ratings, & differant thrust ratings (same engines).
The MD-87/88/90 are the ones that are differant, but they're rarely included in the MD-80 series.

That's a horrendous list..

Take-offs are the worst time for badly maintained/designed planes.. Huge amounts of mechanical strain,worst angle for loss of power and no height to try and generate lift..
They should have pulled the flight after the first sign of a problem.
What a needless waste of life.

Md-80 is in the top 5 most successful commercial aircraft of all time, with a safety record to match... if an aircraft is operating out of an airfield, especially one in SPAIN, then it SHOULD be abled to either stop or fly away on one engine... otherwise it would not be flying.

I bet you this will turn out to be pilot error, or, bad circumstances that had nothing to do with the aircraft, more likely maintainence. To be fair, untill the report comes out, everything is a rumor.

I don't think the Airlines has qualified people to maintain those planes. That's scarry as hell!

What? What's scary as hell? An assumption? Based on what? Everyone who maintains planes is qualified. This is Air Spain we're talking about, not some parts of Asia & Africa.

Yes, unfortunatelly a plane accident is still, usually fatal..

Depends on the circumstances... overall, a plane accident is usually no problem.




If people don't know about aircraft then they shouldn't comment on these matters; or atleast ask about them. It frustrates me to no end.

[edit on 21/8/2008 by C0bzz]