Do you ever get tired of it?

Originally posted by Prote
Where is the separation point between believing and knowing?

The believing happens in the mind, the knowing - in the context of my sentence - happens somewhere else...

Where?

Originally posted by Prote
If you believe, you know. Even if you're wrong.

...well, if you're wrong, then you just BELIEVED you really knew, right?

I don't think so because you don't know you're wrong. As far as you know, it's knowledge, little do you know it's a belief until new information comes to light that makes you reevaluate your belief/knowledge.

I'm just saying that the line between what we think of as beliefs and knowledge is finer than we may originally think without pulling it apart. Take the old favourite flat earth society. If there really was a time where people though the earth was flat, that would have been an accepted fact. It would have been knowledge. In hindsight, we know it to be a belief.

The point is, we don't actually know very much at all, it could all be belief for all we know, so to stay on topic, you may as well plant a flag in your belief that aliens exist and go from there, or we'll never know anything. The problem with UFOlogy and many other paranormal subjects as I see it is that there is no mainstream acceptance of pretty much anything that you can't stick in a lab and measure, see, test etc therefore, there is no progression in the minds of the masses and it's frustrating, as laid out by the OP. So, we have to change the way we approach the subject as an individual to make personal progress.

Don't sweat it though, almost no one ever agrees with me There's an alternative viewpoint for everything, even facts, hence my stance that there is little difference (in a lot of cases) between belief and perceived knowledge.

sorry, I didn't mean that, specially because I just kind of translated (from portugues) that sentence from a bit of a speech I heard from a catholic priest in my town many years ago...

No worries, any problem would be mine, not yours.

Well if the the well documented white house flyover by a multitude of discs in '52, the astronaut telling us a disc came down in the salt flats while filming and landing on tripod...I don't know what is good enough for people to believe. The only thing we haven't had is Katie Curic sitting down one to one with an alien for an expose.
It actually amuses me to read of the naysayers and cgi everything. I don't have to stick my hand in a fire to know it is hot.

reply to post by Prote


My dear K-Paxian friend, :p I like to talk to people that have different opinions and views. It's the only way to understand that we are wrong about things most of the time.

Well, there's always trouble when we try to talk about and discuss the differences between "know", "believe" and we might add "think". It's really a tough mind exercise...

But at least we agree on one thing...

I'm just saying that the line between what we think of as beliefs and knowledge is finer than we may originally think without pulling it apart.

... so there IS a line.


Peace, brother.

Thank you for your replyes!


Yeah, this is really frustrating. The thing is, I do know, and I do believe.

I do agree with you Prote. This is MY knowledge. I do know and nobody can take my knowledge away from me. And the people who dont share my wiev dont want to let me have it and try to make me - and us, look like tin foil nuts.
All because the truth is too overwhelming for them to embrace.

Fake UFO videos, CGI, people posting hoaxes of all kinds, to me, are people that wont let me have my knowledge without them making fun of it.

The more fake videos, the more hoaxes, tv-reporters that laugh and make sarcastic comments when reporting on UFOs are just adding fuel to the fire of doubt and the refuse of thinking in other paths.

Originally posted by darksky
The more fake videos, the more hoaxes, tv-reporters that laugh and make sarcastic comments when reporting on UFOs are just adding fuel to the fire of doubt and the refuse of thinking in other paths.

That's the point. To make you doubt what you thought you already knew and turn believer to frustrated skeptic adding another to their ranks. Denying and debunking in this field is the easy option but the further you go, the more obvious it is, the more laughable they become and the more they laugh at your ideas. It's a big jolly merry-go-round.

You know I can relate with you on this ..I dont believe in Aliens and UFOs which has not yet been proven true ..or untrue .....but I do believe in God and the bible which can be looked at just as the UFO situation .. I listen to alot of preachers and teachers and listen to a whole bunch of different interpretations of how events will occur in the end times etc etc ...and I get so upset about what I see and read because it is nowhere near what I believe the word says (at least most of them to me have it pretty well wrong in alot of areas) ...there are so many interpretations and beliefs even in Christianity that it boggles my mind and ends up sometimes confusing me more than I was already ...it does not make me want to stop looking though and I do not ever want to just give up ...and I wont ......it really makes me want to study it more...and I have found that keeping my own beliefs and modifying them as I read more about the things I have so many questions about .......then when I get stuck on something again ..I will dig some more and see what others have to say about it ..then I just try and dig through it all and come up with my own conclusions on it ..doing this works for me ..and keeps me from getting so frustraited .......

I am not as interested in wanting to prove what I believe is true ...as I am in finding out all I can about what I believe is true ...I dont need proof that God exists ..I dont need proof that Jesus was the son of God ..I dont need proof the bible is true ..I just want to know the most I can about God,Jesus and the word ....I would rather find it all in the word of God (which it is in there I am just not good at trying to figure out what some things may mean) ...but I also look outside of the word ..I read ancient texts of all kinds just to get a grasp of what the other sides believe ..I have read almost all of the Lost Books of the bible ..which I find alot of stuff that is contrary to what the word says ........I have read the Book of the Dead,Gnostic Bible,The Vedic,the Koran,the Torah etc etc etc ..............I love to read as you can see ...
Anyway I do like another perspective ...thats why I read it ..and even sometimes study it ...the main reason I do it though is to find out just what are the differences in them and I compare what I know in the word and it only makes my belief in the word even that much stronger ..so it really helps to know what others may believe ..or not believe ...it will help strengthen your own belief most of the time ...If not ..then maybe what your believing really is not the truth ...because the truth will set you free .not make you more confused ................

Originally posted by darkskyOr do some of you get tired of the subject too?

OH hell yeah! In fact, these threads have done the very opposite than what I had expected. I had thought for sure on a site whose motto is to deny ignorance there would have to be at least some credible evidence to the claims.

I did research on the claims and vids in one of the threads and realized that they were most likely referring to satellites. Posted the links to show that not all satellites are confined to acting in a conventional manner but could in fact do much of what ppl were claiming to see by their supposed UFO's. Some of the claims started having added info slapped on them to "prove" they were not satellites.

That is when I got barked at that I had stated my point enough. Since then, I think *MOST* claims are either ppl who *want* to feel special or *want* to believe so badly bc reality is too boring or too scary for them to deal with.

Whether they all are or not, I gave up trying to find out. If ppl don't want to know the truth and settle on fantasy that is their business.

Would be nice though, as in a thread I posted in last night, if more ppl would be willing to look at things logically so that we could weed out the sightings that can be explained by something natural or manmade.

All the threads have done for me is turned me into a HUGE skeptic, which has actually benefitted me.... so I guess really, I have been given a favor by the irrationalities.


edited to add: In a way, now that I think about it, allowing for these threads helps deny ignorance bc those that care to think for themselves will realize that *most* of these claims are done by those who care less to deny ignorance and believed by the gullible who can't think for themselves which is evidenced when you try to show them logical explanations.

Kind of makes it easy to decipher btw ppl that can paid attention to and those who shouldn't be when in threads that are of importance to the things going on in the world



[edit on 26-8-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by justamomma]