Why can't we require drug tests in order to draw welfare?

I agree on the point of fairness and stopping welfare fraud. But in the longrun and in my opinion the war on drugs is ignorant and unfair of the diferentials of effects of drugs. Without promoting use, or drugs. This is from looking at reality. Not all people who use drugs use daily, and many are working users. Who are non-violent etc.

To me I dont think drug testing should be instituted at all unless t heres been some kind of accident or what not, i undertand the desire to prevent an accident by drug testing, but to me its an audacious practice by corporations that get too much authority in society already.

Corporations shouldnt exist as long as they do anyway, originaly they were merely put together for a single job, then internationalist greed and scheming entered, now we have target, wal-mart and other stores i uber rarely go to.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Subsidized daycare is one of the reforms I would like to see, if we must have the welfare system.

While I applaude your friend's taking charge of her life, the fact is that there are many who simply aren't as proactive as her.

For example, I worked at a grocery store. Time and time again I watched people bring carts filled with junk food, sugary snacks, deli meals, and bakery goodies to the checkout line, and pay for them with food stamp cards.

This really bothered me. I would say that people should eat what they want, but when it's comign on someone else's dime, it should be as cost-effective as possible. I would not be able to afford such a menu on my salery. If food stamps could be rearranged to fit the WIC model it wold be much more cost-effective, and probably dramaticlaly reduce obeisity rates, too.

In a nutshell, the answer to your question is "We already do require that welfare applicant recipients be drug tested."

I'm a welfare case manager in Louisiana, so this is my area of expertise (and I don't have many, believe me...gotta take what I can get!)

Drug screening is MANDATORY for FITAP (welfare) applicants & recipients in Louisiana...most other states mandate the same for their welfare app/recip.

If the results are positive, the client is referred to an addictive disorders clinic for treatment/counseling AND further in-depth evaluations. Most of these "positive" clients must also participate in other activities which lead to self-sufficiency, such as attending GED classes, vocational education classes.

The applicant/recipient is required to cooperate and remain "clean"...otherwise, they will be denied further benefits and in fact will be "sanctioned" (ineligible to reapply for benefits for a certain period of time) for failure to cooperate.


Ezzi

[edit on 20-8-2008 by ezziboo]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by ezziboo]

reply to post by asmeone2


Many states already have subsidized childcare assistance programs...the parent pays a portion of the childcare cost and the state pays the remainder.

reply to post by Scorched Earth


We are defined as a society by how we treat the least among us.

Sorry about he single line as it is everything I have to say.

I think before they fix the people on welfare the system itself needs to be fixed. There is not one doubt in my mind that it needs an overhaul in the worst way.

I live in a border city in TX and when I worked in the convenience stores around town I couldn't count how many times people pulled up in $40k+ vehicles to purchase chips, soda, candy, and drop down the "Lonestar" food stamp card. I'm talking about well dressed people in a Lexus, or Tahoe, ect. These same people would complain when I told them the hotdog or nachos had to be paid in cash cash as Lonestar didn't cover ready to eat food. Here's the part that may make some peoples heads boil, the license plates to most of these nice cars were from Mexico. There is something wrong when someone forgets their Gucci Purse in their Cadillac Escalade and whips out a food stamp card.

I had got frustrated with this, and started refusing sales like this for a week or so as it just didn't seem right to me. However it got me in trouble and written up.

The convenience stores pay the state to have the machines that accept food stamps also. That doesn't sound like the states really want to help the poor but rather fill their own coffers. If helping was the intention stricter rules placed on purchasable goods should be in place. The same could be said for the grocery stores on stricter rules as well.

Having a sister in law that lived in HUD housing I saw a lot of the same thing. Nice cars, nicely furnished apartments, up to date electronics such as T.V.s , stereos, computers etc. Most of those people had been living there for 10+ years as well. They were not the majority, but they were there.

From my experiences around most people on welfare they need to be told what to do, and how. Drug testing wont stop anything, but move the desperation from a somewhat controlled area to the streets. Perhaps mandatory inspections of HUD homes should be more frequent for those who are able minded to get work, but are not making progress in the program. HUD as I understand it is a program for helping people on their feet, but in far to many instances it becomes a way of life. I also think people that may be on HUD with the health issues that prevent them from working get their own program that can be monitored in a different form to those needs.

Just my little rant on the subject, theres far to much detail of whats wrong with the welfare programs in TX alone. So yea fix that first then worry about the recipients.

reply to post by asmeone2



That's a darn good idea, you do realize they also give social security benefits to drug addicts and alcoholics?

Drug screening is MANDATORY for FITAP (welfare) applicants & recipients in Louisiana...most other states mandate the same for their welfare app/recip.

WOW really, it must differ from state to state, they don't require that here.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by asmeone2

 

That's a darn good idea, you do realize they also give social security benefits to drug addicts and alcoholics?

Yes, I do realize that, that was what I was in part referring to when I said they get off easy b y claiming addiction as a disease. I do not classify SS as welfare, though, sinceit in theory comes from that person's own taxes. (That system of course could use reform its own self.)

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
I have an even better question.

Can anyone please show me the Constitutional Amendment (which, for any that are ignorant, merely lays out what is PERMITTED to the federal government, all other rights being limited to the State) which allows food stamps, HUD, Department of Education, etc.?

Thank you.

For that matter, can someone show me where it says the government is permitted to screen my body for what I do with it in my free time?

Drug testing is an invasion of privacy, and should not be tolerated.

Where are the civility and decorum police when people are calling me Nazi? Lets apply the civility and decorum in a fair and equal fashion in this thread please.

It really comes down to this:


If you are for welfare, no matter what stipulations you are willing to slap on it or what emotions you feel towards those that have less, are disabled, blah blah.. you are against the constitution in its original intent.

If you are for the constitution, then there is nothing to discuss here.

This "we" business that ppl keep putting out there when speaking of helping others in tough positions is imposing on other ppls' right to their property. If *you* have the heart (which is all good and fine) to help others, then by all means, open up *your* checkbook and not the checkbook of everyone else.

If you take from someone else's pocket without their willing consent, it is stealing. There are no rewards for virtues (that is what makes it a virtue), but there is crapload of consequences when you steal someone else's money... even when you are hiding behind your illusion of virtues and/or gov't to do so.

The consequences are well on their way. In fact, I think we are beginning to see the effects of them hitting even now

TO SUM IT UP:

a.) all those in favor of welfare = constitutional opposers

b.) all those opposed to welfare = constitutional supporter

It *IS* that cut and dry folks.




[edit on 20-8-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


We discussed that earlier in the thread. THe Con. does not provide for welfare on the Federal level. What we are discussing here is distributed on a state-wide basis.

Originally posted by justamomma
TO SUM IT UP:

a.) all those in favor of welfare = constitutional opposers

b.) all those opposed to welfare = constitutional supporter

It *IS* that cut and dry folks.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by justamomma]

I respect your point, but you are WAY oversimplifying here. What if someone is opposed to welfare but opposed to firearms as well? What if someone is for welfare, but also fights censoprship.

You cannot sum it up in such simple terms.

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by justamomma

 

We discussed that earlier in the thread. THe Con. does not provide for welfare on the Federal level. What we are discussing here is distributed on a state-wide basis.

But there doesn't seem anything that should be discussed. Welfare is S*T*E*A*L*I*N*G. I don't care if it is a momma with 6 babies and no daddy around, the retard living next door, or a man with no arm and legs.

The stipulations are pointless because it is *wrong* to take from someone who worked for their money and give out to others as you deem fit.

Drug tests being put into place aren't going to change the fact that the whole system is corrupt the minute they take out of your or my pocket to put into the pocket of another person for whatever reason.

Having a form to exclude this person or monitoring what they are buying isn't going to change the fact that the only FAIR thing is to stop it at the beginning by leaving it in the pocket of the person who worked for it.

Black white red brown yella whatever.... if it isn't yours, you should not be allowed to make the stipulations of how it will be put to use.

This whole idea of "but the system is there so we have to accept it and reform it" is wrong bc it is wrong to take someone's personal money and put it into the hands of another person. That is called socialism... whether it is at the state level or the federal level.

*slaps some ppl on the hands with a ruler for discussing the rules of how other ppls' money should be handled. stealing is w*r*o*n*g



[edit on 20-8-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimisticI respect your point, but you are WAY oversimplifying here. What if someone is opposed to welfare but opposed to firearms as well? What if someone is for welfare, but also fights censoprship.

You cannot sum it up in such simple terms.

Yes.. I can. You are either for a person having the right to do what they deem fit in their lives in all aspects so long as they are not imposing on the pursuit of someone else's life or you aren't.

If you impose even ONE requirement that dictates to another how they should manage their personal life and what is in it INCLUDING what they have earned, you are anti constitutional.

Welfare is just that..... an imposition saying that one person HAS to help another person with the earnings MADE BY THEM.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by justamomma]

Money motivates people. Drug testing for welfare recipients would probably motivate hundreds of thousands of people to get clean. I know money is the reason I quit smoking pot. I wonder what would happen when everyone starts crying " It's not my fault..I have a disease "

Originally posted by groingrinder
mopusvindictus every post you make refutes your statement that you are a conservative. No conservative advocates for an unregulated welfare system where everyone without any self control gets a ride on the government gravy train.

You would be completely wrong on that issue.

There is a major difference between the things you say running for office and how you actually feel.

The Conservative vote in America has a strong, strong body of Lower Midddle Class and Poor White Males and politicians will go along with the kind of things they say... and it's a group of... the most ignorant unsuccesful white people with an unwaivering set of ideals...

No politician will challenge a deep set of beliefs no matter how wrong it is


But form that, You have to be Kidding Me, if you think Bush or McCain sit on Millions in their mansions and actually Agree with some redneck ridiculous Hate against poor minorities, drug addicts and pregnant moms?

LOL why would they care?

It Hurts a guy making 15,000 - 50,000 a year, supporting a family and kids on that kind of salary to pay taxes, that's the income range it HURTS to pay any taxes at all...

From 51,000 - 100,000 it matters alot less

and above that, you never ever seriously concern yourself ever again unless your a friggin psychotic or greed fiend


Why do you suppose our NeoCon friend GW didn't build a wall across Mexico? That his voters want , he talks the talk to them about illegals, many of these people get assistance and they aren't even citizens...

Joe wonder bread red neck, owns a house along the border makes 16,000 a year and shells out an extra 400.00 in taxes (lol) for these people to get treated at hospitals... he votes for Bush (who does have some sympathy and relates to him more than a democrat)

But where is Bush's REAL stance on the issue...

Bush has probably employed hundreds of illegals over time, he has owned all sorts of businesses and farms and before being president he had to know them, walk out and shake their hands, it doesn't affect GW's income in anyway to help them out or anyone else.

IF GW thinks his taxes are high GW is no dummy, he will if he owes 1 Million in taxes, sink that Million into a charity and some of it into opening a store somewhere and take the write off because he knows it will loose money for the first couple of years

So is GW going to look Esmerelda and her two bambinos in the eye and throw up a wall so she can't cross the border even though he does kind of feel some sympathy for joe red neck?

Hell no he isn't going to, because it's mean, and it doesn't directly affect him ever

So what Conservatives advocate these things? Pat Buchanan? How many actually are serious when they talk tough on immigration and welfare

1% of even Republicans at best bro

Your missing the whole point, it only matters to you if your poor

and more importantly matters if your ignornat as well

Because individual by individual your not spending #e, your just blaming your problems on other people.

If you work all day at some crap factory, come home with less than you need and live in a mediocre place and some welfare mom moves in next door and manages to maintain a similar quality of life without a job because of welfare you are going to hate her?

No be pissed at yourself!

Because your job sucks if you have a reason to resent her crappy quality of life... because your failing to come up in the world and as much as the welfare recipient you think the world owes you something better

You wouldn't care if you had money, or at least knew you could have money...

and what did the people who care about this tripe do with their lives

"I got me a Jawb"

Big friggin deal, Read it, Know it, WAGE SLAVERY

Your either engaged in commerce as a supplier or your a worker, workers are never well off...ever, in any society anywhere

In fact, on a level I KNOW some Republicans myself included know that, some people on welfare actually are brighter and better citizens than"Joe Bob I work Hard"

Why?

Because "Jo Bob I work hard" Is a Pain in the rear end, The moneys available to go to College But Joe Bob decieded he Just wanted a Jawb, he could have gotten student loans, Governent and business constantly supply funds for innovation, technical fields education....

and "Joe Bob I work Hard" at 19 behaves like a moron he takes ajob at the Can Plant which...his Congressman would love to ship out to India where Canning EELs or whatever actual can support a family and replace it with an Internet Company or Hospital or something and revitalize the whole town...

But nooooo "Joe Bob I work hard"has his Daddies work ethic who got it from his Daddy back in 1906 and back then it was actually a method that worked...

But "Joe Bob I work hard" and 60 of his friends from a town of 12,000 don't believe in student loans so they cling to their jobs packing eels into friggin cans Rather than take welfare and get student loans and... it's a miserable life because the one manager there F's all there wives and that's when the inbreeding sets in and it's ridiculous

and "joe bob I work hard" decides to now Hate, Esmerelda the mexican immigrant who shows up, gets on section 8 and gets the house next door for 300.00 a month instead of 800.00, gets food stamps, gets her student loan and...

and Esmerelda in many cases does not trap herself...

shes on the welfare for 5 years and she gets her nursing degree.... when "Joe Bob I work Hard" says "why dontcha git a jawb at the cannery" She responds "I haint working wit no eels ey ar disgusting"

and he hates her...

and what happens Esmerelda becomes a Nurse and when the congressman finally gets the Eel cannery torn down and a hospital put up Esmerelda is a big shot and loves when she makes "joe Bob I work hard" sign the promisory to pay the 3,000 for the broken toe his uninsured ass (because he won't take any state medical aid) that he got when he kicked his Dawg because he lost his Jawb


and you know what... she is smarter than him and she is more of a Genuine Republican than he is and she is a capitalist and "Joe Bob I work hard" even though it would insult him to death is actually the socialist and the communist

Because Esmerelda, Capitalized on the system and Joe bob Capitalized on Dirt, Jow Bob is concerned with Equality, Esmerelda is concerned with Getting Over

and that my friend is Capitalism... Esmerelda went to a school for free and runs a f'n hospital and ate free the whole time and she capitalizes the crap out of Joe Bob who...is in the end...the Damn proletariot bitching about his Job and his wage and in America that person is Pathetic!

I am a pure unapologetic capitalist and republican

I am for the guy who goes out and collects what he can from the man to feed his family and sells weed under the table and pockets the cash and has a bunch of kids and drives a pimpmobile

That guy is a Republican that man is a capitalist, that man has Bi7ch3$ and is a grade A American Pimp

and the guy who sits and works at the cannery and complains he makes 6.75 an hr is an idiot, because No one that has money wants those polluting garbage jobs even in this country...and "Joe Bob I work hard" doesn't know a damn thing about real money and he is a failure and he isn't a capitalist or a Republican in any way shape or form!

He is a wage slave and it's a step down in a capitalist society from welfare recipient, because some of those welfare recipients are on the rise and he is going nowhere so he Hates them but really needs to look in a mirror...

Votes and who your actually respect are 2 differnt things.







[edit on 20-8-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by asmeone2

Originally posted by 911fnord
reply to post by asmeone2

 

cool nice weather finally.

Yeah my response was a little cynical and I would have to assume the program has actually helped allot of people. But I do see it as the "theorist of conspired events" that I am as a ultimately a way to keep people down.

I got WIC for a while, and it really did help me--I wasn't able to breastfeed and wouldn't have been able to afford formula otherwise.

I think they should reform the foodstamp program to fit the WIC model, if they must keep it... I worked at a grocery store for a while, and was disgusted by how many carts of junk food were paid for with food stamp cards.

Any people wonder why most of the people on welfare are fat. Its all because of the junk foods they eat on top of the lard they use like butter. Then they get sick and then go to the hospital at taxpayers expense. Any wonder taxes are so high in a lot of places. Free mean obuse.

Let me ask you, who were the fellows that threw the Boston tea party more like?

The guy with the Jawb?

Or the Guy who has food stamps and sells Buddah untaxed on the side?

Whos the more British imperialist, the Joe Bob sitting at home advocating taking away people Tea/Leaves and catrating them for having babies or the Guy having babies with or without the money and selling huis Leaves anyway and not paying the man?

Who is the real Republican? and who's the British right now?


Drug test, to hand out food that... would Rot or be given away to foreign countries rather than people living here anyway?

Hand back the poorest people the ability to have a roof when...we Tax everybodys Land for the duration of their lifetime?


What sense is this "I got a Jawb mentality" Your not Americans your Communist I don't want a F'n Job EVER I want to shoot myself in the head when I have one...

and My Capitalist Republican AMERICAN Rear end has more in common being wel off and a Capitalist wioth the Welfare sect than it does with "Joe Bob I got's me a jawb any day of the week"

To me that makes you the real welfare recipient because you kiss my or another guy like me's Butt day and night for less money than you need to live and took zero advantage of every opportunity you have and ever will have to be be free and flush America right dowen the tubes

If you settle for minimum wage your pathetic, I can beg for triple that if I need to and you are ignorant let yourself be capitalized on to an extreme

and then...blame the welfare recipients who actually say Uh UH... I want to eat, I ain't goin on the street uh uh

and I want the chance to be like you even if I'm a moron ... and sell a little dope on the side or Drink and have their own little Boston Tea parties every single day...while you follow the rules? You resent them...

Guys if you Anti Welfare types were founding fathers there never would be a revolution, there wouldn't be an America

Drug test the poor? Take away their Tea, let them eat Cake?

"There was a shot heard round the world it was the start of the revolution...."

Give me a break, stop being suckers, your bosses and leaders have no respect for someone who would work for ultra low or minimum wage rather than go to school or collect welfare all day and sit in the Free public library...

Like J. K Rowlings the Billionare, who collected WELFARE while she wrote harry Potter and made Millions of people happy and pays enough taxes to compensate 1,000 other welfare recipients who failed...

and yeah if 1 in 100 use it right and become doctors and scientists it Pays 10 fold over the ones that squander it...