Why can't we require drug tests in order to draw welfare?

you don't limit ,you see if there on any kind of drug that's taken ! (money's) or anthing else ,that is eLgal. Then the drug dealer goes out of Buiss.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
reply to post by asmeone2

 

You know this is intrusive

BUT

I have to say I see a huge problem has developed in America due to nutrition, it does make a person lazy and mentally deficient to eat all sugars and processed foods and trans fat

I can't say I see anything much wrong with limiting ...maybe 80% to be fair to genuinely healthy food groups.

Sure, Maybe they could also have an "allowable" list of processed foods, but I'm not in a position to decide what.

I just have a problem with people existing on junk food on my dime-- number one unhealthy, number two, bad way to spend money.

reply to post by asmeone2


If M is legalized a big part of the issue with this goes away instantly...

It's just way to commonly used, some people feel they need it, it's milder than cigs or booze and really not in anyway harmful to the vast majority of people and some could argue, helpful... a debate I wont get into

M grouped in with coke, heroin, crack and meth or even booze is ridiculous, the new European standards list it as safer than aspirin.

BUT: the real question remains, how do you save any momey this way? The testing will probably cost what you save removing junkies from welfare and then... what the ehck do you realistically do with them?

Without castration or death ofr jail...all of which will still cost more money lol, particularly Jail, rehab is more and doesn't work if they are forced to go?

The war on dope is an abysmal failure and ridiculously expensive kids today are doing dope like heroin and meth, things my peers never would have dreamed of touching

It has only gotten worse...

education coast alot of money but imho, kids actually knowing about dope and it';s real effects and realistic risks is probably going to be the only way to diminish junkies in our society

and that will cost plenty too...

the problem at the rooot of this I suppose is junkies...

and most of these people are human beings and just made simple mistakes... some people can do a ton of dope and never get addicted others try something once and they are ruined

I'd have to maintain the cheepest most effective way of dealing with this is to let them have what they need to survive

and up a genuine education... and thats raising, not lowering taxes even with that one simple thing

your not going to get rid of dope... this is a problem here to stay, it's somewhat costly but, not that severe...

I think the best way to cope is to treat it like it is a man made natural disaster and be compasionate about it

It has not damaged Europe in any way to take this approach, in fact it has improved things

reply to post by asmeone2


I was thinking just leave an allowabl;e percent 10 or 15% for "treats" everyone needs some pleasure in their diet

But the purpose of food aid is largely to survive and help people... and veggies and meats will do that and HoHo's won't

reply to post by asmeone2


Ah I see. Sorry for not reading the whole thread....sometimes I'm a bit lazy

Originally posted by iceofspades
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Ah I see. Sorry for not reading the whole thread....sometimes I'm a bit lazy

No offence taken. It's pretty long by this point, I wouldn't expect you to go through the whole thing.

For those people who say I am in position X at work or military and I have to drug test why shouldn't they...

The anser is simple, we are not all equal, some of us Choose more responsability

If your in the service you have to hold yourself to a higher standard, you practice with ammunition, you fly planes, you could accidntly kill someone your behavior represents the whole of the USA

and responsabilty, being a soldier your first job is to protect people, you fight for those who can't fight, you job is to physically and or mentally be at the top of your game

and, your a better person for it, your goal is to be a better person your job is to defend the defenseless and your needed at the top of your game

A telemarketer, can get high

If you fly a plane or a train or have responsability in court over human lives, you have to practice a life that is different to be that person

and above all, your attempting to be better, your setting a standard and, shelling out a few bucks for welfare for people who have problems is by far the Least of your worries

G-d bleess the people who stand up and have higher standards but you can't then be a fascist and damn everyone else who can't meet those standards

In the end what would make you special and worthy of the life you have if everyone was as competent as you?




I get up every single day, I do crap I don't want to do all the time, I talk to peole I don't want to talk to and I make usually really good money for it.

But no one stucka gun to my head and said be responsable, I take pleasure in being a part of things, having some importance, I take pleasure in the 40.00 going to welfare and paying my child support and all the rest

Because I can do these things and the next guy can't for whatever reason, so I'm not going to sit here because I gave up smoking a few years back because I had responsabilities and it was too much, I love the M, it's my friend, I miss it, but I'm not going to say go knock joe shmo over and make him take a pee test

because I want the apartment in the awesome neighborhood, because I like beautiful women and that money gets them for me, because it makes me happy to be the boss...

and if everyone was like me i'd be a nobody, so sometimes i'm thankful they aren't and don't mind spending the extra few bucks to help them out, it gives me in the end purpose, It makes me proud

so do what you do in the service and the job and know that, you have it alot better than they do. Be happy all those people don't have your level of competence in life because you might be out a job and then you'd need the welfare

I go the extra mile, so do some of you, then do it and don't look back, be proud of yourself, a family has one dad a nation has only so many soldiers a million or so in our case, they aren't bad your special

don't add insult to injury to these poor people who will never be what you are in many cases, just be responsable as a citizen and don't regret it.

reply to post by asmeone2


No definitive way really without testing for them, even the tests can be fudged (hot synthetic urine packs, washes for hair tests etc etc).

In saying is there any point in testing for drugs? The war on drugs has clearly failed.



Worst part about drug testing for welfare is - lets say they catch 50% of them for pot and a tiny amount for crack if they had it recently.. what are those thousands and thousands [of the 'gimme more' drug type users] going to do when they do not get food? They sure as hell ain't going away to lie in the gutter. They'll simply steal it from YOU.

[edit on 21/8/08 by GhostR1der]

Okay,

my opinion is this,

As unfortunate that it is, that there are many people who abuse the welfare system - there really isn't anything that will be done about that, in my opinion... and yes it is sad.

But, welfare is stated to benefit the children of the household (afterall that's the way a lot of the abusing women get it.. just get pregnant a few times)..
If the mother/father is on drugs.. that is unfortunate, but how can someone come to the conclusion that it is the child's fault that their parent is on drugs? And yes, children in the homes of drug addiction are probably better off somewhere else.

I believe this happened once before.. but I agree with the idea of making the parent work a few hours in a community type job per month. Welfare is not much money anyhow.. so pitching a few hours per week of work isn't much to ask for the benefits the household gains (foodstamps, medical card).

So if drug testing were to be in place in order to gain welfare, it would force many lazy mothers who have never worked a day in their life, to find a job. If this mother doesn't care enough about their child to not use money that is to benefit it, to buy drugs with.. then she probably won't care whether or not she gets a job. And it is hard to say what would happen next.

So while it is a noble idea, there just aren't that many foster homes in the world.

We were subsequently conditioned to switch between these
reflexes depending on whether the person we were dealing with
was Higher in the pecking order or Lower in the pecking order.
(Middle-class people, e.g., Reagan conservatives, John Birchers,
etc. will always revere those Higher in the pecking order; and,
equally, will always have some reason to persecute—peck at—
the poor, who are Lower in the pecking order. Hence, they will
say and even believe, that they are being robbed by the poor on
Welfare—who get about 4% of the tax dollar—and never
"notice" that the military-industrial complex is getting 72% of
their tax dollar. This is normal mammalian sociobiology.)

Good question..one point of view to the very root of the question is placed to us via Robert Anton Wilson (read above)

Why don't we put all the welfare people to work at a George Washington style hemp farm. Everybody would be happy then!

My first response was bleep drug testing.
I understand your arguement, but we should be getting away from this kind of gov't control, not adding to it.
Also, would this drug testing be for illegal drugs only?
What about the legal drugs that they may be abusing like alcohol & cigeretts (spending welfare money for cigs) or maybe they get valum or some sort of opiate from the clinic?
It seems that the adult on welfare that may choose to use a less than harmful drug of choice may be the one that ends up getting the short end of the ...
I don't see hardcore druggies quiting for a welfare check. They'll just go steal & rob more.

reply to post by groingrinder


I do not smoke marijuana or take any medications besides tylenol, or benadryl.

so you should PUT AWAY THE COKE STRAW BEFORE POSTING.

or to be fair, DUMP THE MARTINI BEFORE POSTING.


heh.

I am in agreement that extreme cases should be dealt with in a severe fashion, sure. I know a guy who has had 12 kids he can't afford. he should have been stopped, yeah.

but then we should make welfare pay for contraceptives and family planning, huh?

that makes more sense than paying for Viagra.

people on welfare are way too stereotyped. I also have been on welfare for limited times in my life, including during the early nineties and during 2002-2004, off and on, between jobs.

this is because I had no ability to work higher paying jobs because my dad died and I had no one to help me go to school, while I took care of my mother while she waited to get on social security (because she worked herself to injury over 30 years) and I had to try and pay for everything.

I worked my way off welfare, and now my mom finally has what her taxes, my taxes, and my grandparent's taxes paid for, the ability to let me have a life and succeed. I am preparing to go to school now.

the point is, I don't think that anyone should be tested for drugs without any prior reason like crimes.

being disadvantaged is not a crime. sometimes you need help, and making it even more demeaning, (because that's what testing my pee is, it is demeaning, and I feel untrusted for no reason every time I have to do it for my job.) is cruel.

people need help sometimes. if they abuse it, yeah okay, do what you want, but making this sh*t mandatory for everyone is some seriously 1984 kind of nonsense.

keep your damned nose out of my bladder, thanks.

we had to fight for that welfare after dad died, and we got the bare minimum.

they actually told us to just leave, and we had to sit in the office until someone would help us, because we had no where else to go. right after my dad died, and grandma died, no less.

and they screwed us over several times during that period, a case in point,

we were recieving something like a half of our rent paid for two months, and someone reported that i had two jobs when I in fact did not. no proof was necessary, and they just took away that assistanc,e even though I could prove I had one job.

it was a part time job, and the only one I could at the time.

that really really put us in a bad way.

I made it though.

in Texas, they wouldn't pay for my mom's insulin, and she almost died because the local doctor 'didn't deal with paperwork' which is how you get the free private programs to work. oh, and she needed a hundred bucks up front just to see the guy for 5 minutes.

so you see, welfare may be easy for SOME people to get. but not for those who really need it, and only use it for a awhile, like me.

I used it intermittently over a two year period, and it was a horrible experience. i hated every minute of it.

there was a lot of prejudgement by others for me being on assistance, using foodstamps etc.

and I worked my ass off as much as I could.

so you see, abusers make me mad as hell, especially because the system is set up to make it easy for the losers but hard for people who want to get ahead and make something of themselves.

there is no excuse to punish people's children for that. and anyway, who is going to take care of all these new foster kids? michael jackson??

also, something someone else said about australia is true of USA as well:

mostly it's Drunks abusing welfare, not drug addicts.

so you need alcohol tests, not drug tests, then.

A better question might be why are people on welfare so well funded that they can afford illegal drugs?

Originally posted by Amaterasu
I see the smiley and don't know if you're kidding or not... In case you are not... A bagel is BREAD.

Yep-yep, just kidding. Though bagels do costs more then a plain loaf of bread. Well at least in Aust they do, maybe not in the US. Dunno..

So you tell me why ANYONE should be drug tested.

Originally posted by styxxz
Drugs are bad mm'kay

Heh. Again, I don't know if you're serious

Of course, why else would I parody Mr. Mackie of South Park

One certain drug was cut from study by Reagan because all they could find was benefits, and THAT just wasn't what the government, who is using the War on (some people who use some) Drugs to bring the police state into our lives. (This drug in question can be homegrown and is considered a weed.)

Point taken, but there are many different drugs out there and mostly are bad for you. That includes some of the stuff the Doc dolls out too. Not gunna specify which. I probably should of said, most drugs are bad!!! m'kay lol

Imo, drug testing the long-term unemployed should be considered. Not to punish them, rather to help 'em. Some people can't escape drug addiction on their own, so some tough love might be in order.

amen to this. i have been saying this for years.

in addition to requiring drug tests we should also limit the number of children for whom you can receive assistance. in fact anything over two kids should be penalized.

Weed is not a drug. It is a god grown herb.
The government is #ed up in so many ways. Did you know that over two million Americans have been incarserated yearly In the prison system of the U.S.? Or that the approximate number of incarserations have nearly tripled since 1985? All of these minor drug offenders filling our prisons. It is no wonder they are overflowing. It is no wonder our taxes are being raised. What about the economy? Five dollars a gallon gas? When asked how Iraq could possibly pay back what it owes america, President Bush simply laughed and said "What could they pay us back with? Oil?!?!" If America is the richest country in the world, why is it americans can hardly afford to live in it? Mexicans that illeagaly jump the border, go and become citizens, and get jobs that americans desperatly need?
Why is it that a single hardworking mother of three, working two jobs, who cant pay the mortgage, isn't eligible for a welfare check, and a drug addict panhandling bum, can walk right out no problem?

The government wont pay out one red cent, it doesn't have to, and finding THC in someones system, is like finding lint in a fat man's bellybutton.
It is a god grown herb, as well as non habit forming, so how is tobbacco legal, and Marajuana isnt?
Its bull#, but its just the way it is.

Do you know what is funny?

Absolutely nothing about the American school system teaches human finance.

McJobs, welfare, taking student loans, credit card debt, variable rate mortgages

The Average American seems to be financially retarded until about 40, it's like you have to educate yourself on the most important subject in life... After College and do so while working and already in debt out your yinyang

Anyone in this forum actually have a class in basic Entreprenuership? ow to open a business account, incorporate to protyect yourself, supply and demand in practice not theory, real life investing, handling interest


all I ever got taught even in economics class was theory and origins, it's rare very rare in most majors that a person gets out of College knowing how to handle money

But 99% get out with student credit cards maxed and a whopper of student loans

I remember the first thing I thought after Graduation when I saw my loan totals

"Holy $h17 I should have bought a Mc Donalds"

We blame welfare on drug or alchohol abuse but really, I know plenty of rich functional drunks, people who get high on meds or drink almost daily... but they have lots of money

it's not about being high, it's financial retardation

If you know very little about money beyond a halfway decent bank will give you 3% interest

1,000 a month put into a cruddy bank ( a terrible investment strategy) over a life time will retire you a Millionare with an extra 30,000 a year + you can draw every year in your retirement

and no one is taught saving or investing at all...

So can I blame the welfare sect, heck no, they are clueless, most of us are clueless, I Make good money but i'm horendous with it. I managed to teach myself what to do, but with what I get I have zero discipline to save beyond what I spend to make more.

So i'm still working and if I add up the numbers, from what I have made, i should be able to retire lol and I couldn't even dream of it, I'm young still in my 30's but, I'm a horror show with my money like anyone else.

Almost all of us stink, we were never given the discipline in school of handling money our societ is based around spend, spend spend, drugs, games, going out, booze, clothes...

what's the difference what we spend it on, we all spend we almost all live above our means no matter what we make.

If I stoped working tomorrow I'd be broke in a matter of months and need welfare... at best

and for me there is absolutely no reason in the world that shoul be the case by now, and it is, so get rid of welfare? Anyone of us might need it at a moments notice

My mom got cancer 7 years ago and died, after insurance which was considerable my dad owed 750,000.00

One bad illness your done unless you have Millions, as much as I make I don;t have health insurance

why I'm a freak, i spend my money on stimulus all the time, we all do

I can't rag the welfare crowd, job or no job, until Americans become a society that Saves again, like our grandparents were, we are a debtor nation, 90% of us could hit the welfare wall from a single accident or illness or loss of a job at anytime, myself included

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Schools don't teach you any laws either - otherwise the system would actually work...

Nor do they teach children about their Rights as Individuals under the Constitution.

You keep writing these eloquent and passoinate posts and I keep on reading them.

Your efforts are appreciated and I hope you are filing this stuff away. Good stuff eh!

Well earlier today i started another semester of work experience at some establishment. I was going through the orientation and then it came to their drug policy..........

If i were to be an employee of this establishment i would be subjected to a drug test before taking the job, aka pee in a cup with some random person watching me do it. The urine would be tested to see if i had any illegal drugs in my system.

No this isn't like a breathalyser to see if i was over some prescribed blood alcohol limit. This is just to see if i had say 'THC' in my system. This test isn't designed to see if i am high or drunk on the job its just to see if i had taken drugs at any time in the past few days or weeks.

I like to smoke pot in my free time. I like to take other illicit drugs on the odd occasion in my free time.

So my question is if you take drugs responsibly in your own free time and not at work and you aren't under the influence at work why should they be testing you for recreational use?

To me it seems like some form of indoctrination or initiation test. You will sacrifice this for us and be subjected to this humiliation for us. To show how committed you are to us.

In my view what you do in your own time is your own business and as long as it doesn't affect your work, work should stay out of your own business. It feels like someone else's morality is being stuffed down my throat.

Well # that and # you.

If i cant enjoy getting ripped on the weekends I'm going to get high everyday all day and your going to pay for it mother#ers.