Bill would allow lethal drinks by prescription

Originally posted by Shamanator
They should this use this stuff to deal with the homeless and immigration problems just put it in a whisky bottle and hand it out. That's probably the only moral use for it because suicide isn't and is just a way out for cowards.

I'd test it on a dog before I took it anyway it could be painful or something but really anyone who kills themselves will end up in Hell so it should stay Illegal

This is MUCH different then "suicide" and obviously you have never had a family member who was terminally ill, and had to watch them suffer while the doctors said there is nothing they can do.

I hope no one ever had to escape such terminal pain, but it is there and in my opinion if its the medical equipment that is keeping them alive, then they are not really living. While advanced medicine and hospital equipment has helped increase the average lifespan by huge leaps and bounds, it also has a negative side. It keeps the unhealthy and dying alive longer then they should have ever lived, and puts a burden on the family, the tax payer, and the overcrowded hospital. We are creating a population epidemic because mother nature never intended people to live as long as they currently do, and it is nothing but selfish to make someone suffer and live way beyond their time if they do not want to.

We should spend less time trying to keep the dead alive.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by deadline527]

Suicide-The intentional taking of one's own life.

seems like suicide to me. yes i know it's hard to watch someone suffer while the doc shrugs his shoulders. it's still suicide. imho doctors who will prescribe this Secobarbital are acting like Dr. Kevorkian. Though that punk did it for different reasons. I can see how it would be justified in this situation, yet it's still suicide.

Originally posted by Sliick
Suicide-The intentional taking of one's own life.

seems like suicide to me. yes i know it's hard to watch someone suffer while the doc shrugs his shoulders. it's still suicide. imho doctors who will prescribe this Secobarbital are acting like Dr. Kevorkian. Though that punk did it for different reasons. I can see how it would be justified in this situation, yet it's still suicide.

That is true, and I totally agree. But, without all these hospital machines, most of these people shouldn't even be alive anyway. We are the ones forcing them to live, when its obvious that they should be dead. Why force someone to live in horrible pain, when they are going to die the second you unhook them from whatever they are required to lug around with them? Why not let them say their goodbyes to their family and go in peace, instead of a sudden, unexpected death that causes much more grievance to the family and friends.

As for Dr. Kavorkian, I would rather have a doctor assisted euthanasia then someone blowing their brains out with a shotgun. If someone wants to die, they are going to die, its just a matter of how. And what different reason did Dr. Kavorkian have? I thought he only dealt with terminally ill patients who were mentally stable and wanted to end their own life. He did NOT euthanize them, he only provided the means. They still had a choice on weather or not they wanted to go through with it.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by deadline527]

If you take the life of a wounded soldier on the battlefield begging for death- in thier eyes, you are a savior

If you murder in the name of religion, to others in that religion- you are a hero.

If you take your own life, in the face of pain and misery- in the eyes of religion you are a monster.

Our god is a compassionate one

maybe if you had someone else pour this prescription strength grogg down your face everything will be better.

Originally posted by deadline527
Hmm.. so death takes up to an hour?

What if you change your mind after drinking it? lol

I wonder if they have another chemical that is able to reverse the effects of this drug, or if its a guaranteed death once it passes your lips.

If you are terminally ill and in extreme pain, chances are, your not going to change your mind. You're going to wish it would hurry up.

I didn't see her actual death, but when i visited my grandma in her home on her death bed hours before she died I would've wished for her death to come at that very moment. She has melanoma cancer that was untreatable except that chemo would've given her only weeks. She decided to forgo any treatment at all except for pain meds and live out her last days in her home as opposed to a hospital bed.

She had a tumor behind her eye and it was pushing it outward. She couldn't eat a dang thing. She lost several pounds within a couple days. She was barely coherent and in incredible pain.

Why is it that people are so willing to put their pets out of their misery but will sit there and watch a loved one die.

A friend of mine's wife died a couple months ago due to kidney failure. Instead of being on dialysis 24 hours a day, which is the only thing that would've kept her alive, she decided to go home and die. Now, imagine that. There's IS NO POSSIBLE WAY she would've survived, yet, she had to lay there for about a day (give or take, can't exactly remember) just waiting for that last moment of life. Imagine the pain it also caused her family to watch her go through this. The trauma of expecting every single moment to be her last. If she had this drink, then it would've ended needless suffering for all parties and I would expect that she would've gone a lot more peacefully.

If my grandma had asked me to end her prolonged suffering, I would've done it for her, no questions asked. It was absolutely and entirely inevitable. it would've been the last loving act I could've done for her.

As for "First do no harm". I strongly believe that sitting there watching someone die in pain and agony is definitely doing a heck of a lot more harm than good.

Edit: What I should say is that if there were a lethal drug or drink like the one being discussed that was available, I would've done that for my grandma. I don't think I would be able to shoot her or something like that. That's not necessarily guaranteed and, well, very traumatizing, quite honestly.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by nunya13]

reply to post by nunya13


I can also add in here that my uncle was sent home to die in the comfort of his own home. With my family all visiting him through out the days, we all knew he wouldent last long. The sound of fluid in his lungs while he talked was probably one of the worst things you could experience. I only wish there was something like this medication at that point in time. For him to be able to say his good byes to everyone at once, and die peacefully would have been a lot less traumatic then not knowing, as well as for the people who thought he might make it another day... and never were able to see him. My cousin had to watch his father basically writhe in pain, just waiting for him to die to end his suffering. This is NOT living. This is downright TORTURE.

I think this is a good thing.

If I was sick/injured and dying a painful death and wanted to end it and the doctor couldn't or wouldn't give me something to end it, I would simply end it myself with a gun or a knife. At least if this is legalized there won't be a mess to clean up from those other people who think the way I do. There are so many cases where there is absolutely no hope, and these poor people have to sit and suffer for sometimes over a year.. Its one thing if you're still mobile and can make the most of your time, dealing with the pain.. but a lot of those people are bed bound the entire time... that's no way to live.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Raverous]

Originally posted by deadline527
I only wish there was something like this medication at that point in time.

I don't understand this. Your uncle probably had plenty of medication available, he could have gone that path if he wanted too. Either he didn't want to or he never thought much ab out it (probably the former).

This drug is SYMBOLIC only.

I will say this.

I have no fear of death, i truly don't and i say that as someone who has faced his death. If i was in terrible pain, every day and had a diagnosis that i was going to die, then yes i'd take this drug. That may seem weak to some people, i am however a strong person, but i don't see the point in unecessary suffering. This goes for anyone wanting to end their lives.

However if the family wanted to end the life of someone else then that would be wrong of course. It's a personal choice, if you want to end your life you should be able to. At the extremes of this it's why is support the idea of suicide booths ala futurama.

That's maybe a different issue though.

The point for some is they have to finish their business with their loved ones, and suffer on to compete what they feel they must. That's why I know not everyone will take the draught to end their pain, but will hold on, until their grandson's birth, until their daughter shows up to visit from across the world, to say what they wish to, even though their medications often interfere with their consciousness. Everyone's wishes must be respected. Love is essential in these moments. I've heard of many people who had to be told it was okay to let go.

I have a friend and she has Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva. Anyone who says that you should not be aloud to take this drink for any reason should hang out with her for a day and see the fear in her eyes as the pain of razor shap bones cut threw he muscles and stillness creeps up her body.

One day she wont be able to move or communicate with anyone just feel the pain of her muscles being replaced by bone. She will be a living statue of pain.

If she asked me to help her out I would have no problem doing what I could for her.



img81.imageshack.us...

Originally posted by Shere Khaan
In this time of over population bring on the suicide booths! They could always remove the horribly painful option.

Soylent Green Factories...

If the person is that terminally ill-soon to die in horrible pain-, not just a suicide remedy for depressed emo youths, then it is their choosing.

Originally posted by wolfmanjack
Its a pretty damn simple situation..

What other people do to themselves is none of anyone else's Business.

A really good book on this issue is here. (You can read it online)
www.mcwilliams.com...
Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do

It talks about CONSENSUAL CRIMES and how the far left/right, bible thumpers etc impose their values etc onto the rest of us.

Quite frankly i think it comes down to this.. If it isn't your body shut the hell up and let people decide for themselves what they are going to do. It isn't your right to dictate to others what they can and can do with their own body.

Edit..

Raist ..... LMAO mate.. There are plenty of things out in the world a person can kill themselves with.. Without having to resort to some drink. The advantage of having this drink is to make sure you have something that will do the job and not leave you as a vegetable or worse.

And the entire premise of unethical (first do no harm) is a joke. When in a lot of these cases not doing anything at all is doing more harm then doing something.






[edit on 19-8-2008 by wolfmanjack]

So if i killed you with my body, it isn't your business? I mean, it is my choice, and since its my choice, i shouldn't be punished for it.

Those who are saying euthanasia is an individual choice - "It's my body, other's should mind their own business" - are overlooking a number of important issues. This debate is not as straight-forward as it appears on first examination. At the same time I appreciate that many who advocate it have the interests of the patients at heart.

One of the biggest issues is consent. If an elderly and/or sick person agrees to have their life ended it could simply be the result of depression. That is why the majority of medical workers who work with the terminally ill favour the employment of hospice care or specialist home-based nursing staff in these situations. By maximizing comfort and by using the best pain relief methods available the patient is enabled to maintain a level of personal dignity and an awareness of self-worth that would be lost in a society where 'let them drink the poison' was an easy way out.

Then there is the issue of relatives exerting their influence on a terminally-ill patient for less than honourable reasons. Let's be blunt: money.

These issues have not been resolved in the Netherlands, where euthanasia is a legally-sanctioned option. Specialist care is far preferable.

Originally posted by Nookster

Originally posted by Shere Khaan

Soylent Green Factories...

SOYLENT GREEN!!! soylent green?!!!!! AGHHHHH

Originally posted by Lophorus
I have a friend and she has Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva. Anyone who says that you should not be aloud to take this drink for any reason should hang out with her for a day and see the fear in her eyes as the pain of razor shap bones cut threw he muscles and stillness creeps up her body.

One day she wont be able to move or communicate with anyone just feel the pain of her muscles being replaced by bone. She will be a living statue of pain.

If she asked me to help her out I would have no problem doing what I could for her.

img81.imageshack.us...

All i know for sure is that some form of assisted suicide should be legal, it just worries me putting it in the hands of SO MANY doctors....maybe a special degree or more specific schooling should be necessary. I would add a new class of drugs to the schedule, putting a new category of Type 0 drugs that always result in death, and requiring more training to prescribe them. what do u think?
with that being said, i still think the bill will pass. But i know a few doctors who will never prescribe that, and others who shouldn't be allowed to. i feel for your friend and i don't see how anyone could argue that she would be someone for whom this law mass designed for, what worries me is what i said above along with what others said about corrupt family members. as for the guy saying terrorists would be all over this....c'mon, this kinda thing has probably been available in other countries for awhile, the USA is usually last to get new meds because the FDA can REALLY stall when they want to. They could just as easily carry around cianide capsuls or something, or som Jim Jones Juice or something. i don't see why no one else can agree that
1.of course people like this persons friend should have options that are pain free and 100% to work
2.A lot of doctors would still be scared to prescribe it.
3.a lot of doctors are not responsible enough to prescribe it
4.the possibility of more and more people being diagnosed "terminal" when they are not DEFINATELY terminal because they are encouraged to do so by health insurance companies who would save a lot of money if the patient died sooner
5.this issue is not as simple as "it's wrong u will go to hell" OR "it's my body i can do what i want"////the thread is MUCH deeper because we have to discuss wrether or not any family doctor could do this. What do ya'll think about making it a whole new branch of medecine?
6.what about insurance policies that don't pay out to the family if the person commits suicide?
there is a lot of things to discuss, and i don't know JACK about insurance companies, OR euthanasia, OR malpractrice, so i wish someone more educated than me would expand on my comments. PLEASE

The big thing that makes me wonder about this all is the death penalty. I'm not a supporter of the death penalty but why do they use such elaborate methods when a barbituate overdose would be so much more efficient?

This site has a year by year brake down of legal secobabital suicide.
This is just the first year.
www.religioustolerance.org...


By the end of 1998, one prediction of the anti-choice forces had not materialized. There was no rush of people to Oregon to seek an easy end to their life. Since the law was passed, only about one Oregonian per month has elected to commit physician assisted suicide.

Dr. Arthur Chin of the Center for Disease Control and Prevention was the lead researcher in a study of the physician assisted suicide law in Oregon. The study found that during the calendar year 1998: 1
bullet Many people expected that large numbers of the terminally ill would take advantage of the law. In fact, very few did - only 23 during 1998.
bullet Of the 23 individuals, 15 committed suicide, usually within a day of receiving the prescription. 6 died from their illnesses without using the medication. 2 remained alive at the end of 1998.
bullet Some had predicted that most of those seeking help in dying would be poor, uneducated, uninsured, or concerned about the financial effects of a long, lingering death or fearful of intractable pain. These predictions did not come true. Gender, education, health insurance status, and fear of pain did not play an influential role in prompting a person to seek help in dying.
bullet The CDC compared these 15 with 43 others with similar fatal diseases but who elected to not seek help. They found a number of determining factors that led people to seek help in dying:
bullet "Concern about loss of autonomy or control of bodily functions."
bullet Having never married.
bullet Being a divorced person.
bullet Having led an independent life.
bullet 13 of the 15 were dying of cancer.
bullet Six of the fifteen had to change doctors at least once to find one willing to write a prescription.
bullet Of the 15 who committed suicide, all were white; 8 were male; their median age was 68 years.
bullet Doctors usually prescribed a fatal dose of Secobarbital, along with an anti-vomiting medicine so that the barbiturate would be properly adsorbed by the body.
bullet Everyone who committed suicide became unconscious within 5 minutes. Most were dead within an hour.
www.religioustolerance.org...

reply to post by deadline527


It most certainly is torture. I guess i never thought of it that way.