God vs. doctor: 1 in 2 say prayer saves the dying

God vs. doctor: 1 in 2 say prayer saves the dying

www.msnbc.msn.com

An eye-opening survey reveals widespread belief that divine intervention can revive dying patients. And, researchers said, doctors "need to be prepared to deal with families who are waiting for a miracle."

More than half of randomly surveyed adults — 57 percent — said God's intervention could save a family member even if physicians declared treatment would be futile. And nearly three-quarters said patients have a right to demand such treatment.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Now this is scary as hell.

Don't forget that the morons that believe "god" will save the dying also vote, drive, and breathe the same air as the rest of us do.


I think we should take a useless state, say California since it's already filled with plenty of nuts, and confine all religious nuts there as well.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by Scorched Earth


Now this is scary as hell.

Don't forget that the morons that believe "god" will save the dying also vote, drive, and breathe the same air as the rest of us do.


I think we should take a useless state, say California since it's already filled with plenty of nuts, and confine all religious nuts there as well.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

This has already been posted...but I always say prayer never hurts...but you shouldn't ignore or decline medical care because of it....which I don't think anyone is saying you should...I actually think this article/poll has a pretty negative slant towards religion.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by yellowcard]

reply to post by yellowcard


Considering people said that god will help the dying, its hard to put any kind of slant on it.

Further proof religion is the greatest threat to the planet.

I think there is something in positive thinking. I think your health is largely affected by your state of mind. If you think you're ill all the time and feel depressed, you will become depressed, and ill as a result.

The immune system is affected by your state, and if the immune system is impaired, it opens you up to problems.

Be happy!

I am glad to see the OP is not biased in any way toward religion. I am also glad that the OP is not in any way going to offend any of those people by calling them morons.


On a side note and on topic I would not refuse treatment if needed nor would I convince any others to do so. I don’t know any one of faith that would do so. On the other hand I would not refuse prayer either.

Raist

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
I think there is something in positive thinking. I think your health is largely affected by your state of mind. If you think you're ill all the time and feel depressed, you will become depressed, and ill as a result.

The immune system is affected by your state, and if the immune system is impaired, it opens you up to problems.

Be happy!

I agree completely. I also believe that much of the prayer that is done does help to relieve stress and cause people to think more positively.

I agree be happy but also will add stop worrying.

Raist

You know, I have another stunning statistic for you...

1 in 2 has an IQ less than or equal to 100


just throwin' that out there.

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by yellowcard

 

Considering people said that god will help the dying, its hard to put any kind of slant on it.

Further proof religion is the greatest threat to the planet.

The initial post indicated belief where the clinician has failed. It is not against the physician. Faced with a 'terminal' condition, people turn to other forms of hope, including lots of TLC and spirituality. It is shown that positive thinking helps people who are ill, and spirituality goes one further. It gets a person to look at themselves in a different way, and misery can be key as is shown from too many cases of a married couple dieing within a year of each other. If the desire to live is kindled, it can have magical effects.

reply to post by Raist


I never claimed I wasn't biased against religion. IMO, religion truly is the root of all evil.

Its about money and control. Nothing more.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
I think there is something in positive thinking. I think your health is largely affected by your state of mind. If you think you're ill all the time and feel depressed, you will become depressed, and ill as a result.

The immune system is affected by your state, and if the immune system is impaired, it opens you up to problems.

Be happy!

I watched a good friend of the family waste away from cancer. She was one of the most positive and happy people that I have known. Basically, I am throwing up a BS flag to this idea!

reply to post by Scorched Earth


Maybe you should read the post by Sunsetspawn.

It was called sarcasm and seemed pretty obvious but may have somehow been lost in posting on an internet discussion board. But again when you clearly despise religion it seemed obvious.

Back on topic in a way though when one holds such a bias against something it makes it rather impossible to hold a logical discussion with them as they will tone out any useful or important information handed to them. I though can see why you would think the way you do about religion if you only look at it through the eyes that society hands you and seeing the televangelists on the stupid box.

As has been pointed out the prayer itself can lead to positive thinking which has been closely linked to better health and even quicker recovery. Those who are the happiest and most carefree do seem to be sick less often than those who live miserable angry lives filled with worry.

Raist

Originally posted by RaistAs has been pointed out the prayer itself can lead to positive thinking which has been closely linked to better health and even quicker recovery. Those who are the happiest and most carefree do seem to be sick less often than those who live miserable angry lives filled with worry.

I would think though that if this were something to be taken seriously, it would have to be across the board. There are ppl that are negative and angry that have recovered from serious illness.

This just doesn't seem to hold weight because it is too random. I could be wrong and will stand up to correction, but I have always found the ppl to cite such claims are doing so w/ a religious bais.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by justamomma]

The article specifically mentions cases like accidents or violent crimes and life support.

That is a bit different, and many rational people will react a bit differently in those situations. If a tragedy occurs suddenly, and the next day you are told "brain dead, turn off the machines" many people are going to be in denial for a bit. Its a natural psychological response. Just like the news of a sudden death (someone close) often does not bring an immediate emotional reaction, instead people are just stunned.

Now longer term issues are a different matter imho.

reply to post by justamomma


I agree it is sort of random and that there are also studies that claim both ways.

Personally though I feel being angry and worrying all the time is wasteful and detracts from life in general. So with that I will go with the studies that have claimed positive thinking does often help.

Basically worrying about my upcoming death will not stop it. So I should instead live life fully and with enjoyment. Forget the bad things that could or are going to happen. I have seen some very bad spots in life and still seen people who have it worse. I am actually happy to have another day to spend with my son and my wife when I wake up.

As for religious bias, well I am a person of faith though I try to stay away from religion as it is nothing more than mans way to rule others. I do though at least attempt to hear the other person’s side of things even if I do not agree with them, thus my agreement with you on the randomness of it all.

Raist

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
I think there is something in positive thinking. I think your health is largely affected by your state of mind.

I watched a good friend of the family waste away from cancer. She was one of the most positive and happy people that I have known. Basically, I am throwing up a BS flag to this idea!

Yeah new studies have shown there is NO relation between emotions/positive thinking and survival of cancer patients.

The thing that DID make a difference was a close person that cared for the patient, made sure they ate, took them for treatment etc... If they had someone to do that later stages would even sometimes outlive earlier stages, and it didn't matter if the patient was extremely depressed.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Raist


That is right, but, when the love one still ends up passing away as told by the doctor, people either turns against God for not helping or come to the realization that death is unstoppable and unavoidable.

Originally posted by Sonya610Yeah new studies have shown there is NO relation between emotions/positive thinking and survival of cancer patients.

The thing that DID make a difference was a close person that cared for the patient, made sure they ate, took them for treatment etc... If they had someone to do that later stages would even sometimes outlive earlier stages, and it didn't matter if the patient was extremely depressed.

This WOULD make sense. Not for the emotional factor but because, as you stated, someone is making sure they are getting the proper care physically.

Having grown up in the christian religion, I have seen little more come from prayer for those who were sick and dying than those who didn't pray. If someone feels that praying will help them, then by all means... to each his own. I for one will be taking the practical advice as given by my doctor

reply to post by marg6043


Anyone who thinks death is unavoidable needs some serious counseling.

I know people that have turned from God I also know others who have been drawn closer to God. I think for the most part people need someone to blame and someone to lean on in times of need. You cannot blame anyone even God when someone dies, because death was bound to come eventually anyway. In some cases it is better for the person to have avoided further life. I think in many ways death is an escape from the hell of everyday life or the tortures that can come from it.

Raist

reply to post by Scorched Earth



Umm, I posted this yesterday afternoon. I took a more open-minded approach though.