School boy stabs 16 year old to death, satanism and music blamed

Originally posted by Finn1916
reply to post by Scurvy

 

Scurvy you left out Venom. Anyway, something just won't let melet go of this article and it makes me keep thiking, how did this kid get to school with 3 swrods and no one notice or do anyhting? Why is it as soon as this kid was seen he was not thrown against the wall and cuffed for brnging swords to school. Swords are not knives, he couldn't just hide them in his backpack or pocket. Some of the blame needs to be put on teachers at the school ad any security they might have. Not for wht the kid did, but for the fact that it as allowed to happen.

Most of the schools in SA does not have security. If I understand it correctly it happened before the school started. Schools in SA are different than those in the US. Schools are not one big building, they are most of the time a lot of buildings. Most of the schools got squares (like a rally point)where everyone in the morning has to go to, there an opening is made, principals talk to the school etc etc and then everyone goes to their classes. So before school starts everyone is on the sports fields or just hanging out around the school yard. Anyone can walk in with a sword and go stab someone. No problem. Don't know if you understood me correctly.... if not I'll try to explain better (btw my english is not that good)

Originally posted by goldbomb444
You know what is funny, yet noone ever brings up? (I am a huge Slipknot fan by the way) Most of the members of Slipknot are Christian or Atheist. None of them are Satanists. Their songs mostly talk about being yourself, saying f-u to the gov., or not putting up with other peoples crap...doesnt sound to bad to me. They use strong lyrics to get the message across, but to people that actually LISTEN to the lyrics, it makes perfect sense.

No offense intended, but dude, do you actually believe that Slipknot is trying to get any "message" across in their music aside from "Hey you, buy this album so I make more money!" It's anger music, just like Pantera, just like Metallica, and just like Marilyn Manson. They use strong language because in their genre, that parental advisory label is almost as vital as it is in hip-hop. More kids buy their albums if they drop a few f-bombs and talk about skipping rope with some poor SOB's entrails than would if they called people "turds" and sang about lollypops & farts.

With the possible exception of bands like SOaD, Ministry, Dope, and Green Day, there aren't many bands out there who actively try to spread "their own" message. The message of basically any other band out there is purely "Consume, consume, consume!"

If Satanic music caused this....it would happen more often, and in all countries where the music is lisitned to! This young man was either "on something" or slap-ass crazy. Terrible crimes have been commited down through the centuries, now they just get more attention with the wide Media coverage. Don't you think?

Originally posted by Saidar

Originally posted by Finn1916
reply to post by Scurvy

 

Scurvy you left out Venom. Anyway, something just won't let melet go of this article and it makes me keep thiking, how did this kid get to school with 3 swrods and no one notice or do anyhting? Why is it as soon as this kid was seen he was not thrown against the wall and cuffed for brnging swords to school. Swords are not knives, he couldn't just hide them in his backpack or pocket. Some of the blame needs to be put on teachers at the school ad any security they might have. Not for wht the kid did, but for the fact that it as allowed to happen.

Most of the schools in SA does not have security. If I understand it correctly it happened before the school started. Schools in SA are different than those in the US. Schools are not one big building, they are most of the time a lot of buildings. Most of the schools got squares (like a rally point)where everyone in the morning has to go to, there an opening is made, principals talk to the school etc etc and then everyone goes to their classes. So before school starts everyone is on the sports fields or just hanging out around the school yard. Anyone can walk in with a sword and go stab someone. No problem. Don't know if you understood me correctly.... if not I'll try to explain better (btw my english is not that good)

Still, someone had to notice somethng odd aobut a gy walking around with several swords strapped on. It's not like this is a music video where rollin around with a Katana while wearing an orange jumpsuit is normal.

Originally posted by Finn1916
reply to post by Scurvy

 

Still, someone had to notice somethng odd aobut a gy walking around with several swords strapped on. It's not like this is a music video where rollin around with a Katana while wearing an orange jumpsuit is normal.

I think after entering the school he immediately chose a target and attacked. Don't think anyone had the chance to do something about it. If I saw a guy with a sword in the school yard I would have thought that it was a prank... In my school days scaring other people pranks were common. Like I said no guards at the the many school entrances

reply to post by Saidar


One thing is for sure, rules and security are going to get tight at that schol
there will be no hanging out outside for any of these kids and thy will probably have armed guards

Link to a more informed paper

It is said that it happened near the main gate so he didn't have to walk b a lot of people

Originally posted by Nohup
When some psycho mom drowns her kids because they're infected with demons, not very many people go around "blaming" Jesus and the New Testament or Christian rock.

It's called insanity, folks. Works both ways.

I agree with your message, but need to correct you on something. Taking Andrea Yates as an example, several women's rights groups as well as part of her own defense attempted to redirect blame for her downing her 5 kids onto her church, minister, and Christianity. It does happen both ways, it's just the folks who blame music & entertainment tend to get more airtime because of issues like the generation gap. It's like the old cliche of a dad bursting into his son's room when his son is playing a Van halen tape & yelling "Turn down that goddamn Devil music!" then going back into the livingroom to listen to The Beatles, who his parents believed were of the devil.

Religion doesn't necessarily have the same generation gap issues (though some of that certainly exists) as entertainment mediums do, so the false blame mongering falls on more deaf ears. But let one soccer mom hear a story about how some kid played Doom on his computer and then tried to blow up his school and, since she doesn't understand or play video games, suddenly there's an attentive ear buying into the hype.

In the end the guy was insane. Slipknot itself is not in question in this thread but rather the whole metal genre. I doubt he listened to only Slipknot. What appalls me is that people eat this up. This kid has just given religious groups more ammo. Everyone who sees this on TV is going to blame Satan and his "devil music" for this. No questions asked.

People like this are not only a disgrace to the human race for not even being able to take responsibility, they disgrace metal by giving the rest of us a bad name.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


HAHA oh the good old Doom excuse. That one cracked me up when I first heard that. I mean could I really be held responsible if I was out gunning down Cyber Demons and Imps? Wouldn't that be doing a favour?

Originally posted by Scurvy
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

HAHA oh the good old Doom excuse. That one cracked me up when I first heard that. I mean could I really be held responsible if I was out gunning down Cyber Demons and Imps? Wouldn't that be doing a favour?

Actually when they talk about blaming DOOM they talk about DOOM I and II. So it's not demons and imps it's pixels and pixels. If someone learns violence from games with that bad graphics where you shoot pixels then really... No hope for mankind

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by goldbomb444
You know what is funny, yet noone ever brings up? (I am a huge Slipknot fan by the way) Most of the members of Slipknot are Christian or Atheist. None of them are Satanists. Their songs mostly talk about being yourself, saying f-u to the gov., or not putting up with other peoples crap...doesnt sound to bad to me. They use strong lyrics to get the message across, but to people that actually LISTEN to the lyrics, it makes perfect sense.

No offense intended, but dude, do you actually believe that Slipknot is trying to get any "message" across in their music aside from "Hey you, buy this album so I make more money!" It's anger music, just like Pantera, just like Metallica, and just like Marilyn Manson. They use strong language because in their genre, that parental advisory label is almost as vital as it is in hip-hop. More kids buy their albums if they drop a few f-bombs and talk about skipping rope with some poor SOB's entrails than would if they called people "turds" and sang about lollypops & farts.

With the possible exception of bands like SOaD, Ministry, Dope, and Green Day, there aren't many bands out there who actively try to spread "their own" message. The message of basically any other band out there is purely "Consume, consume, consume!"

Wow...actually listen to the lyrics and then come talk to me. How can you say SOaD have a message but shoot down Slipknot? (I love both bands by the way.) People hear screeming and assume a negative message when in fact it is just raw emotion. Especially since Slipknot started out very underground, and could not posibly have expected to sell as well as they did...

reply to post by goldbomb444


I can say that because I fail to see any deep signifigant meaning in lyrics like:

If you're five, five, five, then I'm six, six, six

I have no clue as to what that means aside from the whole supposed shock value of '666' (which c'mon, is there anything in music left that actually shocks anyone anymore?)

I'll tell you what, though, I'll let you have this one. The message you take away from the music you listen to is a personal thing. I tend not to look too deep into my music. I like it loud, I like it raw, I like it angry, and I like it hard. (Wow, that entire sentence could be used to describe more than just my music... heh) A fine example of that is the fact that my political views are about as far to the right as it can get, yet I listen to all the political message groups I listed in my daily rotation. For me as a conservative, the comedic value in Minsitry's lyrics is pure gold set to superior music to boot!

I think we can both agree that it isn't cool to bring away a message of advocating extreme violence, murder, or rape against anyone, however. Anyone who does that has some very deep rooted mental problems and would have snapped at some point in their life regardless of how sterilized a world they surrounded themselves with. The trouble is and always has been that "student kills classmate with sword" doesn't sell as many papers or elicit the same response & outcry as "Believed Satan worshiper kills classmate with sword after being inspired by well known rock band's music." does.

I was actually hopeing you would bring up the Heretic Anthem...It is actually about two different things. First, it is saying, "hey, I am not like you...if you are 555 then I will be 666". That is at least how I first thought it sounded. Corey Taylor later confirmed it is about being different from other bands and from Hollywood...one line does not make a song. Read the whole lyrics...

I'm a pop star threat and I'm not dead yet
Got a supec dred bet with an angel drug head
Like a dead beat winner, I want to be a sinner
An idolized band for the industry killer
A hideous man that you don't understand
Throw a suicide party and I'm guaranteed to f**king snap
It's evilsonic, it's pornoholic
Breakdowns, obscenities it's all I wanna be

If you're a 555, then I'm a 666
If you're 555, I'm 666
(What's it like to be a heretic?)

Everbody's so infatuated
Everbody's so completely sure of what we are
Everbody defamates from miles away
But face to face, they haven't got a thing to say
I bleed for this and I bleed for you
Still you look in my face like I'm somebody new
TOY- nobody wants anything I've got
Which is fine, becasue you're made of
Everything - I'm - NOT

If you're a 555, then I'm a 666
If you're 555, I'm 666
(What's it like to be a heretic?)

30 seconds, 16, 8, 4, lemme tell you why
I haven't the slightest, I'm teaching your brightest
they're listening, clamoring
All the money in the world can't buy me
GO AHEAD, LIE TO ME
Tell me again how you're tortured
I wanna know how you followed your order so well
You're full of #
You had a dream, but this ain't it

However, I will agree that if I didn't see the hidden meanings in these and other lyrics, it would be very bad...

[edit on 19-8-2008 by goldbomb444]

1) Guaranteed this guy will have been mentally 'treated' at some point before the attack. He's probably on SSRIs.

2) When ask why he did it, he will not be able to give an answer.

3) From the link, another boy was also arrested for taking part. That is typical, these guys never act alone. And the kid probably belonged to a little clique that helped plan this attack.

4) He's probably a fan of LARP games, especially of the vampire kind.

Originally posted by Nohup
When some psycho mom drowns her kids because they're infected with demons, not very many people go around "blaming" Jesus and the New Testament or Christian rock.

It's called insanity, folks. Works both ways.

Can you find me ONE article where a "christian" does something horrible like that, and has "claimed to be a Christian"?

No. Notice that if a "christian" goes off the deep end like that, it's always "A Christian blah, blah, blah". But when someone does it that's a Satanist, it's always someone who "claims to be a Satanist".

Now, why is that, I wonder?

reply to post by Scurvy


ok dude I get ur point..BUT the kid was a satanist and he DID say satan told him to kill that kid,doesnt that say anything???why would he be lying?Ok im not even a metal head but I defend the band cuz their not the reason...SATAN IS!!!but all the metal heads are like what the #!stop blaiming metal whoohoo!!!*tear*...chil out dude you guys have to understand why people bame metal.
firstly satan is responsible of the 16 year olds death ....SO
what is on metal album covers?? pantagrams=satanism
what do the sing about??baisicly everything brutal,evil,demonic=satanism
look at posters,T-shirts whats on there??pantagrams,goat heads,upside-down crosses,pictures of hell and demons(cradle of filth has a T-shirt that says JESUS IS A #!)

THATS WHY!!
yes metal doesnt make you a satanist BUT you have to remember way people freak out about that #!!

Blame the parents???why?
the parents dont know everything about acult and rituals..ALL what they see is that satanic # stand out in metal SO their just trying to protect us from #ing out and killing other people...besides their OLD!their not used to modern music!

PS.as a christian I do fully believe that SATANIC metal let me say it again...SATANIC metal DOES have an effect on your spirituality

Cases like this I lay all blame on the parents. I'm not sure if there are as many working moms in Africa as there are here in the US, but did no one see this boy leaving the house with the swords?

The parents are responsible for knowing what games, music and what not that the child is listening too or games he's playing and also to be involved enough to know the child's state of mind.

A 16 year old is still very impressionable and I'm not saying in any way that the music is to blame, however I do think parents need to monitor not just the music but games and friends their children are around and to make sure that there is a healthy flow of positive feelings and thoughts being fed to the child.

That is sad. And ill say this just edifies my belief that 9-11 is similar, where mind control and suggestion to boost the efforts of tyrants in america and elsewhere is being used on a gunea pig populace. This to me is merely a microcosmic side effect of being young, misguided and filled with undescribed hatred towards the world.

I feel bad for all parties involved. Its sad that satanism has to exist, its a rotten belief system and those who espouse any kind of killing or sacrifice or ritual anything, shouldnt have the right to practice it, because its misguided use of the earths energies and soul energy, which is sacred for a sane world and life, satan, as his followers example, obviously wants this effect. same with God, Many men and women become psychotic about God and rightiousness so much so they loose perspective on our perspective. We are all human, and we are our brothers and sisters keepers.

I pray for everyone involved in this to the good God that he may put his healing hands on it and wash away the pain and shed light on reality.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by mastermind77]

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Can you find me ONE article where a "christian" does something horrible like that, and has "claimed to be a Christian"?
...

The boy didn't claim he's a Satanist. He said "Satan told him to kill the people, or he would die", or in short "The Devil made me do it". The media put the Satanism stamp in there of sensationalism.

There are many, many cases where "Christians" did similar things and said "God told me to do it".
Examples:
The Christopher Lee McCuin cannabilism case.
(Pastor) Blair Donnelly killed his daughter under "God's command"
The Thomas Moore arson case
In many cults (which usually leads to suicide/rape/murder/etc.) the cult leaders believe that they are either God, the Son of God or a messenger of God. The Jonestown massacre as a random example.

We can go on like this for hours, but I'm sure you get the idea...

Satan/Satanism isn't really being picked on as you would suggest.