reply to post by Cuhail
Alrighty Cuhail, sorry for the off track .. now for my thoughts on the subject:
Russia. When looking onto the World Stage from outside, as a Human yet thinking not as one of a certain Nationality, Ethnicity, Political
ideologist.. just .. Human .. much of the current confrontations make no sense.
Russia collapses in the late 80's .. America goes into Soviet territory and "opens them" in the sense that under Soviet rule they where essentially
stagnant. In fact.. it's the only time in Human History it has been observed that a country like Yugoslavia could literally be entirely unchanged
from the date it entered it's union with the Soviets till it was "freed". Just bazaar. No development what so ever.
So all the old Soviet Bloc states are getting aid, development and are essentially being westernized.... but Russia has a problem with this, why?
Because America went into Russia, spent billions building it's economy up, billions fixing it's oil industry (yeah, we fixed their fields) and then
a short 20 years later we are enemies? Enemies essentially with an entity we created?
But we get along with the old Soviet Bloc fine, why not Russia? Makes no sense..
Is it because there is a Russia / Western type vendetta that must be quenched before peace can be made? No .. go to London, Paris, Berlin, Dublin,
the biggest Western cities and you will find plenty of Russians, poor Russians, especially rich Russians, enjoying western life. In fact, as far as
"westernizing" goes, Russia is the fastest in the world.. as their economy picks up malls are being built, fast food shops and starbucks on every
corner.. so .. it's not our "way of life" that is different....
Is it because we feel Putin is a dictator? No, of course not, because no one ever cares about dictators.. for crying out loud we supported Pol Pot
did we not? Besides, Putin is not President, Russia is by all means a "Democracy" for lack of a better word (I always lack better words to describe
any Democracy) .. The Russians vote, some want a monarchy, some want the old ways back .. but that doesn't matter because as far as a clash of
interests go, it makes no difference.. We love the Sauds.. did any one vote for them?
Well Bush loves them anyways..
Is it because of our past histories? Hell no, because quite honestly nothing ever happened.. coulda, maybe it shoulda, but it didn't.. Granted it is
possible that, seeing as the Gov's of the World are still governed by the same old bastards that lived during the times of potential hostilities they
hold a grudge.. want to carry on what their own ignorant fathers began .. who knows..
Oil? No, we built their oil industry.
Political Power? That would imply some kind of difference.. if there is no major political difference between us, there is no power struggle.. while
Russia maintains regional power, it can only be expected as Russia is a very large economy, country and population. I can certainly understand
strains between Russia, the West and Georgia because of it's very nature.. however when it comes down to it, technically Georgia DID start the war..
So why is the west so quick to beat on poor ol' Russia?
The current state of affairs in the international markets is dismal .. the World economy has last some 30% of it's value in the past 2 years..
substantial (although GDP figures will always be positive)
anyways, during WWI we made a killing selling war supplies to Europe.. war ends, we
enter a depression and 40% unemployment .. WWII comes along, we make a killing selling war provisions and supplying our own troops, as the way
Capitalism in the World now works is that if companies profit, and governments go deficit then your economy is good. When your gov is not spending
outrageously feeding the capitalist and allowing the "trickle" down of wealth, perceived wealth cannot sustain a perceived economy.. like waking
from a dream.
So WWII ends, we have some brief wars, but all combined into the War on Communism, or the Cold War .. for Capitalism that constant spending on war ...
even ones that never actually happen, is enough to sustain a good portion of the American Economy .. through the 50-90's we had some serious economic
expansion but honestly without cold war spending it never could have happened .. at least not at the extent it did.. America produced more
information, technology, telecommunications, inventions and so forth in this time period then all of Human History .. from landing on the moon to
cell phones.. all of this was made possible in a race with Soviets in a battle of wills that no one quite remembers why it started to begin with.
So the Soviets fail, we "prevail" and then it's ... well .. not all roses and smiley faces after all .... we run to the aid of our "enemy" ..
desperately try and get them up and running to .... well to continue being their enemy. Honestly, how long could the game last? The 1990's was our
last great era of prosperity, Low inflation in relation to increasing wages caused a sense of wealthiness that otherwise should never have been .. the
Bubble burst, and a short 10 years later all the Credit used to hold up that prosperity drops around our ankles and we fall flat in the mud of our own
The war on terror didn't work because we where to built up .. it was .. to easy .. we needed a prolonged fight. We needed a Vietnam .. So we invade
2 countries, topple them, aim at a third, all the while building Russia up and slowly destroying what relations we have with them (Russia, who has a
major balance surplus still gets aid from America....)
villainize Russia, spend more on the military-industrial Complex to ratchet up the economy but in the end, it won't matter.. as Capitalism and
Democracies demand.. when times get tough .. go to war, cull a percentage of your population, and start from scratch!
Good or bad it doesn't matter.. the way we run our economy "buy now pay later" to give us a false sense of wealth cannot go on forever.. as
inflation increased, people spent with their plastic.. when that was maxed they took out second mortgages, refinanced, and extended personal lines of
Now credit rolls back, credit is harder to get, and people maxed out their own lines of credit. Along with ever increasing inflation .. people wonder
how someone can default on a mortgage, I mean, why take out a mortgage you cannot afford? .. Or was it that they could, and once inflation which is
improperly reported by the Fed over took them, spending power decreases caused defaults on major loans?
Yes, it all ties in with Russia, how we treat Russia, how we condition our citizens to villainize an entire people.. I have met several Russians, all
nice people, great drinking friends.. but we need enemies, shadow enemies are not enough to keep us from falling into the ravine, we need another
super power to pretend like we hate each other..
That's my view anyways.
[edit on 8/19/2008 by Rockpuck]