How do you fight an enemy with nothing to lose?, page 3

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reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 03:34 PM by Grey Magic

Sorry for the one line post but I discussed this with many friends.

The answer is Crispy Bacon, I think the taste of it would prove to them we aren't infidels...

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Grey Magic]

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 03:39 PM by marinesniper

The same way we did when Japan was teaching their pilots to give their lives in kamakazi death dives... the middle east understands nothing else but aggression, diplomacy is an act of weakness...

when will most of you understand this, there will never be diplomatic peace with the extreme. This is why my family left Iran...

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 03:47 PM by Pjotr

Originally posted by Karlhungis
How do you fight an enemy that gives you two options, conform to their will or die? An enemy that views death as a reward.

The war on terror or the war on radical Islam has made me ponder this question. If you are dealing with an enemy that values nothing, how can you come to any sort of terms? Previous wars were won by breaking the will of the enemy, inflicting enough damage until they eventually submit out of a fear of losing everything.

Now we are faced with an enemy that has nothing to lose and is eager to die. I just can't wrap my head around how you could possibly win such a fight.

Radical Islam is not the only case of this. I have noticed the same mentality in the tribal warfare in Africa. They are arming children with weapons and they have completely desensitized them to murder and torture. They have no fear of death and no repsect for human life.

The mindset is something that I can not come to terms with. Normally you can negotiate with people because ulitmately, no one wants to lose everything. Those rules no longer apply, so no there can be no mutual terms. We (rational people) have everything to lose and therefore have no bargaining chips. All we can offer is absolute conformity.

So, how do you deal with such an enemy?

I want this to be about the philosophical aspect of it, not the political. Meaning, I don't want this to be a discussion about invading countries or poor political policies that have brought us to where we are. I just wonder how people view the question.

How do you fight an enemy with nothing to lose?

First: There is no War on Terror. That is a commercial run by gov.institutions IMHO to give room for their intended foreign policies.

As far as there was a Al Qaeda, it is dead now.

Iran does not count, because it is a state. Not a terrorist.

But you are right about brainwashed soldiers. They are everywhere. And your question has some historical value. Look at all the people that let themself murder by enemy armies in history without lifting a finger.
When i looked at Jews that let themselves kill standing at the ridge of their graves that they dug themselves, I thought as a boy: "How can they let it just happen". Now, as a middle aged guy I think, I could let it happen to myself. Because what is there to gain by staying alive in a world filled with idiots and barbarians. Death cannot be worse.

So, to ask your question. You can only fight people with nothing to loose by killing them, knowing that in doing so you killed yourself and any oppertunity your soul once had.

You can also choose not to fight them, but instead enrich their world with your effort to understand who they are. Maybe one day they will choose to listen to you. They used to do that, as far as Islamics are concerned, you know, before someone deafened them.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 03:58 PM by For(Home)Country

Originally posted by Grey Magic
Sorry for the one line post but I discussed this with many friends.

The answer is Crispy Bacon, I think the taste of it would prove to them we aren't infidels...

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Grey Magic]

Hey, I think you're on to something here. I like your foreign policy.
On a more serious note...

To the OP, you are right, how do we deal with them? I have absolutely no idea. Most believers of Radical Islam (Not normal, peaceful Islam) have lost something or someone that made them turn to the extremes that they did. However, even the most richest and powerful countries in the world cannot replace lost wives, children and other loved ones to these heart-hardened people. That is the problem.
Say every NATO nation pulled out the middle east and left all the Islamic countries alone, then, all the radical Islam believers went and did "their thing" and died for their cause. Thousands of people in North America, Europe, Japan and Russia die, but we do absolutely nothing. No "UN sanctions" or "talks" or anything. I know, it sounds horrible, but this is a what-if. Now that all these radicals are gone, will more join? What if we were to completly segregate ourselves from the nations and groups that produce radicals? My guess would be within 20 years of leaving all these radical groups alone, there would be almost no hatred for them to use against us.

I know, it sounds horrible and unrealistic, but if you think about it, its generally someone else that causes the problem that makes these Islamics go terrorists. We take action and we suffer the consequences.

But since the above plan would never happen because everyone loves to get entangled in international affairs, it seems as if the only way to get rid of such a mind set would be to get rid of the idea itself, which could possibly require the extermination of, well, pool of believers. But of course, that too is irrational, inhumane and horrible.

Essentially, we can talk and go to war until the moon turns to orange juice, but there will always be some sort of problem that will trigger something in someones head.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 04:17 PM by derfred33

You fight it with ideas and intelligence.

OR you don´t fight him and leave it alone.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 04:19 PM by sdrawkcabII

In such a situation, it comes down to one of two things, live and let live, or, kill or be killed. It's simple really.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 04:46 PM by NW111

reply to post by Karlhungis

how i fight? Against an enemy who has nothing to lose?

I GIVE THE ENEMY MY HEART...
CAUSE WHEN HE HAS NOTHING BEFORE, THEN HE HAS A HEART AND THEN HE HAS SOMETHING TO LOSE...

AND THEN?

HE CAN TASTE MY SWORD....

Nia

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:11 PM by flymetothemoon

Hi
Someone used the word sheep in a line and it recalled some memory from psychology class. We were digging deep into the "sheep" topic and the best understanding we got, was after seeing the film The Wave. In fact this movie shows how easy it is to manipulate people to good or bad behavior.
please check also :
The third wave

[edit on 19-8-2008 by flymetothemoon]

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:22 PM by NW111

reply to post by flymetothemoon

sorry but i don´t understand?

You will fight against your enemy with a film and a demostration??????

nice

this is sure the point to heal our world.... make demos and make films

Nia

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:24 PM by Dubyakadubla

reply to post by Karlhungis

Lovely analysis put forward with something to think about, but the question still remains, what is this all about ? Is it really a war or just a band of elite crooks that go on a looting spree, wrapped around with a flag and weapons to kill civilians in their hundreds of thousands, just because of a valuable commodity that happens to be of interest to a greedy looter.

Wars are for various reasons, but never to justify mass murder of civilians, for a commodity badly needed to fill the coffers. People who are afflicted with this kind of approach will definitely react to protect themselves with any means possible.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:29 PM by flymetothemoon

reply to post by NW111

What i mean is if you want to defeat something you got to understand why people act like they does in the first place. Not that understanding means that you got to accept what's happening, but it can maby help to work on a sollution...

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:35 PM by NW111

reply to post by flymetothemoon

yes wonderfull, but this was not the question...

"how would you fight against an enemy who has nothing..."

read the threat... and answer

Nia

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:40 PM by Dubyakadubla

reply to post by flymetothemoon

Give it try.....just for a day, to be in the place of the victim and you will realize that they also have a teardrop to share. No human on the face of the earth is made of rock, without feelings of emotions.....that is what the oppressor would like most people to believe. In these situations it is always the innocent that have to pay the price of a foolish few.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:40 PM by dakota1s2

It's amazing how many posters think that talking is the answer. As Marine Sniper stated, there is no peace. If you think back to WW ll we had to Nuke the Japanese into surrender. You can break the will of any enemy. It just takes overwhelming force.

In our society we have become like the French or "some" Brits, or some Dems. We don't want to expend effort, risk our lives etc, to get rid of our enemy. There will be no peace unless or until our way of life is threatened, seriously threatened and we kill or be killed. We'll see what it takes to get to this point, but I fear it will not be long before this senerio happens.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 05:46 PM by flymetothemoon

reply to post by NW111

To respond to you're so brave sollution about giving you're heart(how many do you have) I should maby rather put myself to you're level and answer will be : i would cut out the heart and eat it for breakfast

[edit on 19-8-2008 by flymetothemoon]

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 06:14 PM by flymetothemoon

reply to post by Dubyakadubla

In fact i try to be objective. ref. to subjective terms : Where i live certain persons have to live under ground just because they did put some humor drawings about Muhammed in a paper. Somebody want them dead. I do have family in Israel and have to live with the fear of what can happen to them every day. And oh, by the way i have been a supporter of the state of Israel as long as i remember. And just resently got a big stone smashed through my window cause i believe in free will and spirit. Any thing else you want to know ?

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 06:15 PM by Muffinresearch

Help them to achieve Social Justice.

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 06:32 PM by Cyberbian

headshots.

I mean that both litterally and figuratively. You play the game by their new rules. You do not line up in red uniforms with brass buttons and wait to be picked off by snipers.

You kill them where they stand. Anyone who participates in terrorist related communications gets a headshot. Pretty soon they are all either dead or silent. Open warfare is not their style, but it motivates recruitiment. You simply listen and assassinate, just like they do, only more efficiently. Then you roll up your operation and make sure it does not live on with a will of it's own.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply posted on 19-8-2008 @ 07:14 PM by Spiramirabilis

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

something like a 100th monkey phenomona

You and your 100th monkey phenomona.....

You speak the truth though. Again, if I had to put money on it... I would bet that we are "Royally screwed into eternity" as you put it. My faith in humanity is not real high right now.

it's not hard to reach that point - losing your faith in humanity

but you yourself touched on the truth in several statements - it's about the many and the few

it's hard to keep your eye on the shell with the pea - it's not humanity - it's the few

we can only win this fight by not fighting - and it's easy to see that's not going to happen, so, the only thing left is despair

it would seem

but I agree with your friend and all 100 of his monkeys - don't write off humanity

sometimes reality has to sift in, settle in layers - but when enough people see the same thing at the same time - there can be real change - it's already happening - it just never seems fast enough

it doesn't mean there won't be more loss - more pain, but the outcome of all this is not a foregone conclusion

our enemy is no different from us - he just fears and hates us

identity and solidarity is sometimes better defined by who we are not than by who we are - a good enemy can provide that

until people realize that's not who they want or need to be

what I'm getting at is this -

no group is ever completely homogeneous - no people are ever 100% anything

when you said earlier you don't believe all Muslims want our destruction - this is the truth of the entire thing

but by actively NOT seeing that - we perpetuate the need for them to be our enemy

at the same time, the needs of their many will eventually outweigh the needs of their few - their fundamentalists

there will be a point when they can't convince people we are the real enemy

and from a more pragmatic perspective - it will come down to their masses realizing - this just ain't working for us

besides - politics and circumstance make strange bedfellows, and there may come a point when what looks like an entire united front is going to need to figure out new alliances - and they'll divvy up and square off against each other - but that's a whole other thread

change will happen - not just on our end - but on theirs

because we have the numbers - humanity - on both sides

and we see things differently from the few

unfortunately it takes time to shake of complacency and look at things the way they really are - and then act

this is where the monkeys come in

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