How do you fight an enemy with nothing to lose?

I some time feel that people need to address the issues to whom they belong.
Did any one thoughts that the fundamentalist Muslim are just puppets been directed by the same people that pushes people in the west to fight them via a web of intricate manipulation that is in some cases so difficult to divulge ?
I strongly believe that it is not in the nature of man to be zealous to any causes, we have to ask who are the people behind the call for hatred that manipulate others for some utopian vision.
We have to fight the gangrene at the root. This is where all misery born and spread through the branches of our global society.

Kacou.

reply to post by Misfit


I had to chuckle at a Hitler quote... must be getting late.

Brainwashing children to hate is not only a trait of Radical Islam or tribal Africa. It is alive and well in the Western "civilized" society too. See the "God Hates Fags" church and the hate that the small children are already spewing for just one example.

One of the many...many downfalls of society.

reply to post by kacou


Interesting post. I like it.

We have to fight the gangrene at the root. This is where all misery born and spread through the branches of our global society.

I would argue that society as we know it now is "the root of the gangrene". Which makes for an interesting solution.

reply to post by Karlhungis

Well I was chuckling because you were, until you brought up Phelps.
Ugh. That's all I can say about his cult I mean Clan I mean cretons ........ ah ta hell with it



And yeah, agree with the rest. It really is a "what the hell do ya do?" debacle.

[edit on 19/8/08 by Misfit]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

 

I think that with the current power structure in society, it is impossible. The world is ruled by greedy, corrupt men and it always has been. I can't forsee any way to change the balance of power to allow for such diplomacy. The powerful will continue to exploit the weak for eternity.

It is a nasty situation. But like you say, if we solve it with force, we will only manufacture a new enemy. Too bad I have ZERO faith in the people that are actually in a position to make such a choice.

We have to do it ourselves, one at a time. No leaders at present are to be trusted with the important process of self-empowerment because it takes power away from the powerhungry. But how to get there? I don't know. One at a time and hope, no pray that something like a 100th monkey phenomona is really real so that it kind of spreads when enough people life like it. Else we are royally screwed into eternity.

reply to post by Harman

something like a 100th monkey phenomona

You and your 100th monkey phenomona.....

You speak the truth though. Again, if I had to put money on it... I would bet that we are "Royally screwed into eternity" as you put it. My faith in humanity is not real high right now.

Education is the key to change.Radicals also know this hence the reason they teach their children from such an early age to their doctrine ,conform or die.

It will be at least 2 possibly 3 generations before any form of diatribe can be initiated to the mutual benefit of all but until then how many more people must die?

Do we take their children and re-doctrinate them? If an enemy has nothing to lose and,in the instance of religious fanaticism,they also have nothing to gain,after all their whole purpose is to convert or destroy the unbeliever or die in the process.

Man is and will always be in contention with one thing or another but to try and talk to maniacs who have nothing to lose is just sheer stupidity.
Take them down and out of the equation and just possibly we can achieve some form of mutual calm which can lead to at least a peaceful existence.

Religious fanaticism is a virus one that should be eradicated quickly and completely and never again allowed to propagate.This should be done with whatever means we have.

Cancer is bombarded with radiation and as this is cancerous maybe we should do the same.

reply to post by Karlhungis


The root of the gangrene is in my opinion embedded in to society but not the source of the gangrene. It as taken many centuries and many people to have now reached the point where nothing is impossible when it come to diffuse erroneous messages and divisions.
I wish I could say that we are doing it to ourselves, but this is not true, we are barely just “hypnotically” pushed to believe this way.
No one wants war and famine; you can ask in the street and find no one to actually want misery.
But war and famine are all a round the world.
I can understand the mechanism of this diabolical enterprise but I still have to learn and search the meaning of this permanent status.

Originally posted by Sopwith
Religious fanaticism is a virus one that should be eradicated quickly and completely and never again allowed to propagate.This should be done with whatever means we have..

But that virus is within a human will, which isn't changed via educatioin. It wouldn't matter that it may even be directly of brainwashing, that will and want to kill is now that persons sole essence.

How does anyone else, even with whatever means we have, not only break the will to kill, but still have any reasonable figmant of a rational person as a result considering how that will got into such a humanly moral destitue dispositoin to begin with?

If we could break the will to kill ........ we wouldn't have so many prisons full of killers.

[edit on 19/8/08 by Misfit]

reply to post by kacou

No one wants war and famine; you can ask in the street and find no one to actually want misery.

Unfortunately, that isn't entirely true. It seems we live in a time when a very small group of people control almost everything. This small group of people in power DO want war and famine. It makes them money, gains them power...etc. In the end, it doesn't really matter what the people on the street want, because we are only here to serve the will of the people in power (as they would view it).

I have a hard time believing that it will change because as soon as we eliminate one of the warmongers from power, there is another one that is more than eager to step in and pick up where the previous left off.

I haven't read all the way through yet so I don't know if anyone else has suggested it but maybe if they have nothing to lose then look for what it is they have or wish to gain. It's a good question you pose there Karl. One I have to give more thought on to give any kind of answer.

You said it's a conform to your enemy or die situation. Well if you don't wish to conform to your enemy and they have nothing to lose then the only option I would see for now is destruction of your enemy. Hopefully you can find something they wish to gain other than your conformity and can go from there. Destruction of a people should be the last resort. Unless they wish to make the world conform and won't be reasoned with then get rid of them.

reply to post by Karlhungis


I think my English is getting terrible…sorry.
I meant what you reply; the people in general are good. It takes a very diabolical and psychopath group of people to enslave the world in perpetual hate and war…this people don’t run a round street.

Kacou.

IMO, we have to fight the battle in the short-run on their terms. There is no use applying a modern, 21st century perspective to what is essentially a feudal, antiquated mindset.

But, in the long term, we have to wait it out generationally, just like racism. If we educate the mind and equalize the environment, the extremist mindset will subside over time.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Harman

 

something like a 100th monkey phenomona

You and your 100th monkey phenomona.....

Sorry about that

You speak the truth though. Again, if I had to put money on it... I would bet that we are "Royally screwed into eternity" as you put it. My faith in humanity is not real high right now.

Well, my trust in humanity itself is not low. Look around yourself and your friends/family nothing really wrong with the most of them? Look on the streets, same thing. the only perpetual source of misery is the T.V. and some places on the internet. Even in the places of misery there are more places where people have it OK

(rather that they have it GOOD but one step at a time i think ) then that there are people in abject misery. Even in the biggest hell holes the aggresive people are a relative small bunch of people (to bad they butcher a relative big amount of people)

What someone said about a small army of assassins that kill the heads of the snakes. I like that idea, but let's count the western snakes within the scope of those groups. It would be like the elites say now, acceptable losses only now it really is for the better. ( to bad that way the people that do it become those they kill off so we would be back where we started unless the group that did the whole thing would kill themselves when they are finished. Hm, i'll just stop this brainfart, it's depressing.)

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Harman]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
How do you fight an enemy that gives you two options, conform to their will or die? An enemy that views death as a reward.
...So, how do you deal with such an enemy? ...

I want this to be about the philosophical aspect of it, not the political. Meaning, I don't want this to be a discussion about invading countries or poor political policies that have brought us to where we are. I just wonder how people view the question.

How do you fight an enemy with nothing to lose?

Note: I do not condone some of the things I am going to say here, but this is purely philosophical discussion.

If you speak of muslims, easy. Make all of our troops soak their bullets in pig's blood. In every town, if the troops are attacked, take every enemy killed, and throw their bodies in a grinder with pigs. One pig for one enemy. Grind their bodies together, so they could never be separated, then bury it.

If you speak of other cultures, that too is easy: IF YOU ARE BRUTAL ENOUGH. Take a playbook out of Genghis Khan or the Roman Empire. Walk into a town, city, or village. Ask for their immediate surrender. Say that if they do not surrender, we will level the entire village, killing ALL men, women, and children in the village, except one person. Only that single person will be spared. He will live to tell others what to expect. If they surrender, put your guys in charge, but for the most part, LEAVE THEM ALONE. Let them know that if anyone attacks, harasses or messes with your men, or their occupation, the same rules apply. You will level the village, killing everyone but one.

While men are more than capable of dying for their cause in mass numbers, women will ALWAYS simply bend over for their new slave-masters. So, you give the men their "reward". Kill them off.

Third way. Don't say anything. Don't attempt to negotiate. Drop tactical nukes, nukes, neutron bombs, chemical weapons, biological weapons, etc. ANYTHING THAT KILLS THE INHABITANTS. Totally wipe out their population, leaving no survivors. Problem solved.

Now, there is one other way, but it takes a LOT longer, and while the long-term outcome is never in doubt, the short term is up for grabs. Send in our own "warriors" who do not fear death, and welcome it as a reward. Traditionally, in the Christian church, these were called "martyrs". It's a lot less bloody (but not bloodless, mind you), but effective none the less, and to varying degrees. Sun Tzu said that the greatest victory was to turn an enemy into a friend.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


I agree and must ad same goes for me this purely philosophical

Just remember the US has already fought a similar war before ( Imperial Japan anyone) ...

If you are brutal enough they will brake ... not nice not pc but thats war you cant fight it if you tie one hand behind your back ..

This is a question I have pondered as well, Karl. The way I see it there are two choices. We can try to educate such people that they do have something to live for rather than just something to die for. We can try to improve their lives. Or we can just kill them all.

Option 1 is a gamble. They may never prefer life to death. They may never find a good enough reason to keep living and refrain from killing and dying.

Option 2 is a sure thing.

Do you want to gamble your future on the willingness of absolute lunatics to embrace civilization?

[edit on 8/19/08 by BlackOps719]