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Debunkers & Flamers - Whats their point?

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posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:35 AM
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I am writing this thread because I kepp coming across people on this site that blatantly fire insults to tothers without any sense of understanding or leniency towards the OP.

To confirm what I am writing if you come across someone that fires insults at you choose at random 5 of their posts to other threads that they have 'contributed' to and you will clearly see that all they do is put others down and launch an offensive attack on a decent thread.

I fully appreciate that everybody has their own opinions and want to express themselves in their own way. However, the people I have come across just flame constantly whenever they can to whoever they want.

My question is WHY? is it because they like to feel the special? is it because they are trying to derail decent threads? is it because it makes them feel important?




posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:52 AM
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Your last sentence sums it up.

Or people seem to think "denying ignorance" means getting a MOD to place the words [HOAX] next to the title of a thread. I've only posted one single thread since I've been a member of this site. You should see the ridiculous reaction I got to it. A whole lot of "Don't waste my time" and calls for my being banned.

I think people just want cool points. And also people are cowards who can dish it out online but would never do so in real life.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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I think it is a combination of things.

I think there is certainly the "keyboard commando" type that loves hurling insults because the internet is where they are allowed to finally be mean to other people.

I also think that a lot of people are just genuinely nasty people. They are not nice in their real life and are even worse online. The type of person that talks bad about everyone behind their back.

There are also people who come to ATS from other parts of the internet where that is the only way that people treat each other. There are some amazingly juvenile forums out there.

It is actually kind of amazing how limited the trolling is on ATS. Especially when you consider the material that is discussed here.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by danj3ris
Your last sentence sums it up.



I've only posted one single thread since I've been a member of this site. You should see the ridiculous reaction I got to it. A whole lot of "Don't waste my time" and calls for my being banned.


I am really sorry to hear about your experience, this really gets to me.

What right do these people have to put down others and ridicule them. No matter what thread an OP writes it does not give them the right to launch insults and put people down.

Please don't stop posting, the way I see it is that even if you only get a handful of replies at least you have managed to make a connection with others. What was your post about?







[edit on 19-8-2008 by franspeakfree]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:10 AM
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Interesting you chose that title and chose not to write anything about debunking...

My take on debunking: be glad if someone does. Its a good thing. Why?

If someone tries to debunk your pet theory there are 2 possible outcomes.
He succeeds, in wich case you now know that your Idea has some holes and where, good for you.

or he fails, wich means that the holes weren't that holey to begin with, good for you too.

flaming *shrugs* its the internet. lots of folks, some of wich like to flame. just dont swallow the bait. But i think the general negative conotation of the word debunking is much more interesting than a little flaming



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by debunky
 


what I mean is that there are people here on ATS that want to debunk just for the sake of it, and if you look at their other posts you can see this.




For example say someone writes a thread about structures on the moon (this is just an example) then someone pitches up and says "utter rubbish, there cannot be structures on the moon because if there were we would have known about it by now. I can't believe people are writing such nonsense"


is that flaming or debunking?

IMPO this type of response is ignorance within itself, as the poster cetainly hasn't or doesn't want to entertain the notion that perhaps NASA or whoever wouldn't tell us?

[edit on 19-8-2008 by franspeakfree]

[edit on 19-8-2008 by franspeakfree]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:24 AM
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The thread was concerning a youtube video that supposedly captured an alien entity. The major reason why I posted about it is because the video had very little viewer ship for having been online for so long. I wanted some thoughts on it. The responses hit every point on the spectrum.

I personally think debunking is a very good thing. The exchange of ideas it can produce can be educational and insightful when done right. Yet I see posters attempting to debunk more for the reason of being superior to the OP then to truly learn, educate, or find the smoking guns out there. People should learn how to debunk without adding words and phrases like Obviously, Don't waste my time, You can't argue with me because I took blah blah blah courses, SUCH A HOAX!!". People should work together to "deny ignorance", not boost their E-egos.



[edit on 19-8-2008 by danj3ris] Changed "post" to thread, as in a thread I started.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by danj3ris]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by danj3ris
 




The post was concerning a youtube video that supposedly captured an alien entity. The major reason why I posted about it is because the video had very little viewer ship for having been online for so long. I wanted some thoughts on it. The responses hit every point on the spectrum.


Sorry I am confused what post? are you talking about debunkys post? did you flame the OP? debunking and flaming for the fun of it is totally different than offering an opposed opinion/solution. I accept this.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by danj3ris
The post was concerning a youtube video that supposedly captured an alien entity. The major reason why I posted about it is because the video had very little viewer ship for having been online for so long. I wanted some thoughts on it. The responses hit every point on the spectrum.

I personally think debunking is a very good thing. The exchange of ideas it can produce can be educational and insightful when done right. Yet I see posters attempting to debunk more for the reason of being superior to the OP then to truly learn, educate, or find the smoking guns out there. People should learn how to debunk without adding words and phrases like Obviously, Don't waste my time, You can't argue with me because I took blah blah blah courses, SUCH A HOAX!!". People should work together to "deny ignorance", not boost their E-egos.



I remember that thread, Internos went mental for no reason and was bang out of order (although he did then apologise)


I spend a lot of time on football "related" websites and i honestly agree with a previous post that some people get all keyboard warrior behind the safety of the web. Maybe some inadequecy in real life, or some hidden fear does this to them? I also notice a severe lack of sense of humour on the net and i think this site can be one of the worst for that!

However, i also think that many problems are caused by a lack of understanding between different cultures, what someone may type as genuine or as humerous, may come across as arrogant, or hostile, of facile, especially if english isnt the native tongue.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by Karlhungis
 


Take yourself for example, I have read a few of your replies and they are always informative and constructive, when you disagree with someone you write it in a way that doesn't offend the OP. However these 'keyboard commandos' ( I like that) they feel the need to be superior and shoot people down.

These people are not young and immature they are adults who know they can write well and therefore they, in alot of cases, anhialate the OP with their scathing replies.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by expatwhite
 


I know I have mentioned it before but your avatar gets me everytime I see it.

I can't believe Internos went mad? he is the most respected person I know on this site, which thread was it? did he flame for the fun of it or did he have reason to go mad?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by franspeakfree
 





Take yourself for example, I have read a few of your replies and they are always informative and constructive, when you disagree with someone you write it in a way that doesn't offend the OP.


Thank you for the kind words. I have been blasted on ATS a time or two myself though. Usually though, it really just makes me wonder about the attacker and what type of a person they are in real life.


reply to post by expatwhite
 




I also notice a severe lack of sense of humour on the net and i think this site can be one of the worst for that!


Amen to that!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:58 AM
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Debunking is not a problem. Indeed, were it not for debunkers we'd all believe the Earth was flat and a thunderstorm was God moving his furniture ...


However, a proper debunker should say "you are wrong, and this is why you are wrong" - and provide sufficient evidence to show that the Earth is not flat and the God actually gets someone else to move his furniture for him. Preferable a signed receipt from the removal firm.

Unfortunately what tends to happen is that either the debunker fails to provide good enough evidence, or the proposer of the theory refuses to consider it, and then we get into childish flame wars .... And to be fair, once drawn in it can be difficult to extricate yourself. After all, we all want the last word or at least to retire gracefully rather than looking like we've run with our tail between our legs!

But the answer, anyway, is to always provide supportive evidence and/or well constructed, rationales for your assertions (whether for or against the theory) - don't just think that because you see an alien spaceship in a picture of the Moon every else can or that it can not be anything else - and if people won't consider your evidence, keep your temper and politely provide them with more


And remember too that many others may be reading the thread beyond those actually contributing to it. So whilst you may not convince whomever you're disagreeing with on ATS, you may still win over many others.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:01 AM
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reply to post by Karlhungis
 


I have to be honest the first time I came across a post of yours I did think (purely because of your avatar) oh another debunker/flamer. The only reason I haven't added you as a friend is because of the avatar, that character is pure evil. Oh how avatars can spark opinions from others. Slap on wrist for me.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 



However, a proper debunker should say "you are wrong, and this is why you are wrong" - and provide sufficient evidence to show that the Earth is not flat and the God actually gets someone else to move his furniture for him. Preferable a signed receipt from the removal firm.


Indeed I whole hearted agree I don't have anything against people with opposite opinions as long as they don't ridicule or put me down.

IMO There should be a name and shame spot on ATS for all flamers and people that continue to shoot down OPS just for fun



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:16 AM
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I have thought about this. I also agree that SOME ATS members have kind of bad senses of humor.

I can admit, though, I've been somewhat guilty of these things on my part. When it comes to debunking, there's a difference between denying ignorance and being denial. You should have supportive points as to why you disagree with the OP.

Like I said, I've been a little guilty on my part of these things. Lately, though, I've been changing my "rep" on ATS as more of a kind and polite figure. (Although I maintain my brisk opinions and sharp sense of humor. I love it when posts give me a good laugh!)

[edit on 8/19/2008 by ParaFreaky]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by danj3ris
Your last sentence sums it up.

Or people seem to think "denying ignorance" means getting a MOD to place the words [HOAX] next to the title of a thread. I've only posted one single thread since I've been a member of this site. You should see the ridiculous reaction I got to it. A whole lot of "Don't waste my time" and calls for my being banned.

I think people just want cool points. And also people are cowards who can dish it out online but would never do so in real life.


Hey bud, cheer up!!

Fran has made a very good post here. People have their own opinions, but should'nt be so blunt when they dissagree with you.

The best thing that you can do is to keep posting. If you find something that you think needs to be said, i.e. posted, the put it up here.

F**k 'em

Letting other people dictate what you do and do not do is bad for the soul.

I hope to see a post from you soon.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I think it is a combination of things.

I think there is certainly the "keyboard commando" type that loves hurling insults because the internet is where they are allowed to finally be mean to other people.


Hey Karl.

Love the "keyboard commando term, might have to use that one in the future!!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by franspeakfree
reply to post by expatwhite
 


I know I have mentioned it before but your avatar gets me everytime I see it.

I can't believe Internos went mad? he is the most respected person I know on this site, which thread was it? did he flame for the fun of it or did he have reason to go mad?


Glad you like my avatar


here is the link to the thread in question ATS

i think he was having a bad day, it was very out of character



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by franspeakfree
 

If you've noticed through there other posts that that's all their doing, they are probably some sort of dis info agents, they are definably some on the forum, I'm also very skeptical of anyone that's just joined the day they post one of those "debunking" replys.



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