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Russia 'distributing passports in the Crimea'

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posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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Russia 'distributing passports in the Crimea'


www.telegraph.co.uk

Ukraine is investigating claims that Russia has been distributing passports in the port of Sevastopol, raising fears that the Kremlin could be stoking separatist sentiment in the Crimea as a prelude to possible military intervention.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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If there was any doubt about Russian aggression it has disappeared now.RUSSIA OUT OF GEORGIA AND SOUTH OSETTIA!And take those russians with you!

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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So did Russia hand out passports in S Osettia as well?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Now_Then
 


Yes, several years before this current conflict. I believe they also handed some out in Abhakzia as well.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Now_Then
So did Russia hand out passports in S Osettia as well?

Yes they did.The Russians have never known to be..er ..trustworthy.Now we have the right to demand a pullout of all russian forces.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Wait, someone has to explain this to me, because I'm apparently really slow on the uptake.

How is it an act of aggression to hand out passports?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


It isn't really an act of aggression but the concern is that Russia will use the excuse of protecting "passport holders" as a guise to take control of the Crimea (home of a very important port for the Russian Black Sea Fleet, Sevastopol). When Russia occupied the two breakaway regions of Georgia it did so under the pretense of protecting "Russian passport holders".

The Crimea and other parts of the eastern Ukraine have many Pro-Russian allegiances so this scenario is not total fantasy I guess.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Turiddu]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


By giving out a passport to anyone who wants to be a citizen of your country, it's encouraging people who want to make the choice to separate to ... er... separate.

It's like Kosovo, only bad, because it's the Russians.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


When you have recent evidence that passports in the hands of a population in a particular region being used as a pretext for involvement and eventual invasion and occupation. It would be the moral equivalent of the US giving passports to a particular region of Cuba.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by jefwane]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by jefwane
reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


When you have recent evidence that passports in the hands of a population in a particular region being used as a pretext for involvement and eventual invasion and occupation. It would be the moral equivalent of the US giving passports to a particular region of Cuba.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by jefwane]


Indeed.Its a crude form of false flag operations.Russia has now violated the ceasefire by not withdrawing from Georgia.As a matter of fact they moved closer to Georgia's capital.
Russia must be stopped at all costs,and Putin removed as he is now a threat to the world by threatening us with nuclear annihilation.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Thank you all for your reasonable answers. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm always appreciative of reasonable arguments.

*jefwane*
Well, the region in question has always identified with Russia more than Georgia, to the tune of 80-90% of the population I think. If they want to be Russians, and Russia will accept them, I don't see what's wrong with it. Does Georgia have some sort of right to lock people up and prevent them from giving their allegiance to another country? Seems like slavery.

Certainly they could legally kick out Russian citizens if it came to that?

I think the pretext for involvement is unnecessary, but maybe I'm wrong. The context for involvement in this case was the deaths of Russian citizens acting in the capacity of peace-keepers on S.O. soil.

*vox*
It was 'good' when Georgia wanted to separate from Russia, but it's 'bad' when S.O. wants to separate from Georgia. Why?

*Turiddu*
I think you sort of made my argument for me - these regions have a majority pro-Russian stance. They WANT to be affiliated with Russia. The breakaway republics obviously have governments that were installed by the West (except in maybe one case, I'm not sure about that one). Some citizens don't appreciate that turn of events.

Seems to me that in the spirit of freedom that ostensibly drove the color revolutions, places like Georgia and Ukraine should respect the rights of these regions that identify more with Russia. Their territorial integrity is, apparently, more important to them than the freedom of their citizens.

Where have I heard that before? Wasn't that the criticism that came from the West when Russia tried to intervene in Ukraine?

I dunno - but this all smells like hypocrisy to me. Politicians are standing up in these breakaway republics and saying "We deserve freedom from Russia, but you there, you don't deserve freedom from us!"

*justice*


Russia must be stopped at all costs,and Putin removed as he is now a threat to the world by threatening us with nuclear annihilation.


I must have missed that speech where Putin threatened to nuke America...

If you're talking about the Poland issue, you (and the MSM media) are blowing the comments made way out of proportion. I think you both know this...



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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[removed quote of entire previous post]


Putin is responsible because he controls the govt.Everyone else are puppets.And Russian tanks still sit in Georgia and arent moving out.Therefore that violates the cease-fire.Georgia can now conduct resistance operations if they choose to do so.We will prevent another war with Ukraine and stop the Russian Bear!

In addition youre so apologetic for the Russians its pathetic.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Justice11]

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by sanctum]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.




I must have missed the part in your post where you replied to the points I made. Maybe try again?

Putin is in control of the country - is this supposed to be a secret? 75% of the Russian people agree with his actions in most cases and believe he's the right man to lead the nation. Why shouldn't he be in control, with that sort of approval rating?

He's consistently done what's in the best interest of the country and her people. You hate him for that. His people love him for that. Deal.

Maybe your issues stem from the fact that 'The Bear' is no longer under the control of a guy bought and paid for by TPTB in London and New York? Yeah, I think that's it...


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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Heres another link directly from the Ukraine
Ukraine is investigating claims that Russia has been distributing passports in the port of Sevastopol, raising fears that the Kremlin could be stoking separatist sentiment in the Crimea as a prelude to possible military intervention.

unian.net...



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne



I must have missed the part in your post where you replied to the points I made. Maybe try again?

Putin is in control of the country - is this supposed to be a secret? 75% of the Russian people agree with his actions in most cases and believe he's the right man to lead the nation. Why shouldn't he be in control, with that sort of approval rating?

He's consistently done what's in the best interest of the country and her people. You hate him for that. His people love him for that. Deal.

Maybe your issues stem from the fact that 'The Bear' is no longer under the control of a guy bought and paid for by TPTB in London and New York? Yeah, I think that's it...

LOL!Your arguement is weak at best.Russia is a dictatorship with no free press.Im certainly not taking the russians word for it.As ive said the West sides with Georgia and it looks like Poland and the Ukraine too.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by Justice11
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


My argument is so weak that you won't address it directly, but you have to pull out a straw man?

You think Russians are so stupid they don't know whether or not they like Putin? Have you actually seen the press coverage of the man in his home country? It's not all glowing.

If you just think Americans are genetically superior or something, there's no arguing with you - you will never see reason.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
reply to post by Justice11
 



My argument is so weak that you won't address it directly, but you have to pull out a straw man?

You think Russians are so stupid they don't know whether or not they like Putin? Have you actually seen the press coverage of the man in his home country? It's not all glowing.

If you just think Americans are genetically superior or something, there's no arguing with you - you will never see reason.

Ok np believe what you want have fun!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by WyrdeOne
 


I'm less concerned about the Georgai/SO passport/ethnic identification issue than I am about such activities if they turn up in parts of the Ukraine and Baltics. The Georgia/SO issue seems to have been let fester by all parties for whatever motives. If the issuing of passports to other regions comences it is no longer an isolated dispute and becomes a pattern of aggression.

Certainly Putin expected some type of reaction from the West over this. The question is, was he expecting some type of Chamberlainesque response or something closer to what we are seeing.

As one who grew up at the end of the Cold War, I had high hopes for the people of Russia's future. If there is any people that deserve the chance to live in peace and freedom for a little while it's them. They've suffered all the worst excesses of both pre-industial monarchy and industrial Communism. Putin at first seemed like the type of guy who could restrain the worst excesses of a more Capitalist system, but ended up turning into an Oligarch himself by impoverishing/imprisoning his enemies and enriching himself and his allies. Russia is blessed to be so mineraly rich, but when you see the lack of respect for private property and rule of law, one has to wonder if its worth it to do business with them.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:13 AM
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Russia Accused Of Looking For A Fight Over Georgia And Ukraine
MOSCOW, Russia - Russia was accused yesterday of stoking separatist tensions as part of a campaign to prevent the former Soviet republics of Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO.

Russian seamen in Sevastopol. Moscow is fiercely opposed to NATO replacing it in the Crimea after its lease to keep the Black Sea Fleet there expires.
www.ukrainians.ca...



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by Justice11
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


F.Y.I. - Your mascot, the laughing smiley emoticon, is not an acceptable substitute for intelligent discourse.

You haven't got a response to the comparison I made between the actions of Russia in regards to S.O. and the actions of America in regards to Georgia/Ukraine/etc., have you?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



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