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Hitler, Ayrans, Summerians. How it all ties in.

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posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:06 PM

Originally posted by LovelyDoom

Heretic, I see your point. I'm not an expert in ancient writings, but I am a linguistics expert so I know a thing or two, and actually the "palimpsest" effect in ancient carvings is quite widespread from what I gather. Names of the deposed were rubbed out and redone to other names quite often. I know those look like pictures of strange planes, but to me they do look like chopped up bits of writing. If you look closely you can see the places where the superimposed glyphs got chipped off.

For now, I guess it's your own judgment call.

Thank you so much for this reply, it is much more convincing than that source was for me. I have seen this pic before as well as the controversy that surrounds it and to be honest I just dont know. I do find it plausible that chipping away can cause such effects. What I do find interesting though is that not only one futuristic machine is depicted here, but several, all in one place, HAH!...what are the odds of that, interesting indeed.

for me this will still remain an enigma to which I have no explanation for one way or the other.

I did have one idea though; even if the Sumerian legends were completely untrue in every way, if Hitler discovered them and came to the same conclusions or similar that the OP did, could that not have been a motivation for him?

now I never thought of it like that before. Kinda makes the head spin eh?

thanks for the enlightening perspective, I love it those wow moments


hey thanks for the "Empire of the Cities" link, I haven't seen this one.

Originally posted by Vehemens
I am not a sceptic or a believer in anything. I only use my intelligence to deal with facts and fiction. I can say the Sumerian can't be right.
All that story is based on people from planet Nibiru. Sumerians say Nibiru was rotating around a pulsar but the pulsar exploded and sent Nibiru to our solar system. Then, in our solar system it crashed with planets, sending their moons to other planets, it also exchanged moons with Neptune several times, crashed into Earth creating the Pacific Ocean,etc,etc, right?
So tell me, what intelligent species with the power to travel to other worlds would sit around while a pulsar blew the hell out of them, sent them halfway across the galaxy living in temperatures of around -300ºF, without any light for thousands of years. Then they sit around while their planet crashes into everything in our Solar system several times along their history. But wait, they have the brilliant idea of mining gold from our beautiful planet because it can be used to protect their atmosphere!! Somehow I think the atmosphere would be the least of their problems.

I won't even go to the rest of this story. It has so much holes in it that it makes a bad sci-fi movie look incredible.

Conclusion: either the Sumerians were tripping out of their minds or the guy who interpreted their texts was!
That would explain why so much people see Greys when tripping.

Your onto something here. Some say Zacharia Sitchin is a disinfo agent and that he polluted the Sumerian findings in his books and inserted the planet x theory, when the "real" planet X is the asteroid belt according to most ancient texts. Some say he did this for the purpose of fear and to create a kinship with an alien race that are our "gods".

Do I know if this is, but ...there it is. You can find other sources for the genesis story in other sacred texts like the Enuma Elish and the Vedic texts. It is remarkably close to Sitchin's work, minus nibiru. I found the terra papers a great read too, and that too is minus the nibiru senaio, but it's authenticity cannot be confirmed.

And those of you who know more of the ancient texts than I do than please chime in here so I do not misinform Vehemens here thx.

peace all

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:11 PM
I never expected this thread to take off this much!

I've completely read it through, not skimmed and seems I have a lot to respond too. (A couple early posts didn't appear either on my last run, so I missed replying to them.)

I would like to thank those defending me, however I encourage skepticism. The only person I have thus far had an issue with is the first response to this thread. Anyone else is merely offering criticisms and arguments which should be encouraged, especially in a place like this. With all the theories, conclusions and even bullcrap people come up with, things need to be analyzed and looked at in other lights as well as debunked.

If a theory is destroyed either A: It was incorrect, or B: The person who held that theory either did not have enough evidence to support it or was inefficient at holding his or her claim. On the other hand, if one can defend their theory against the attacks of skepticism it can only become stronger.

There are those asking questions, there are those posing evidence against the theory, and there are those pointing out very legitimate holes that I did indeed miss. No theory is perfect, nor do I claim this one to be.

Therefore, I appreciate the defense and support, by all means continue, but Skepticism and arguments are greatly welcomed

I will have thorough responses for a number of posts later tonight (EST). What I will say is No, I have not read the Terra Papers. I've heard of them a lot through my readings here, but know little about them. If people could tell me a bit about them, I'd appreciate it!

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:28 PM
reply to post by NephraTari

NephraTari your post was just simply rude.

You say hes wrong but present no facts. You wish that he seeks the truth but provide no facts. You provide that you are right and he is wrong but provide no facts... THE OP atleast presented all of his theorys with facts and in case that one is wrong... lol... The only really irrellevant piece of information... So what if its what they drove. Will you disprove the rest?

Watch what you say from now on. If you are a bright light and bring light to others your light becomes more brilliant... If you come in pretending you even have a light those who already have lights will make sure you do not bask in theirs...

Wether or not any of its true its brilliantly put together and it runs closely to what I beleive as well as others... Maybe there is some root to it after all.

I still wonder though. Everyone before had Brown Eyes... What are people with Green/Blue eyes? Am i an exception because I have both. Some people even provoke to call my eyes gray... I dont think the connection is the eye... But I beleive your point that others believe it to be the key is genious wether or not its true... again. Not saying i beleive your post op. But it is very well put together...

According to Nananaysayer Tarahahaha you should do a little researcher...

In my oppinoin all you need is to find out what that person thinks it means and then tell us what you beleive.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:28 PM
be warned that there are 3 versions of the terra papers out there

there are the terra papers 1 supposedly written in the 60s

you will most likely find a short and abridged version of about 19 pages easily on the net, I dont recommend this one as you miss alot, but much easier to find

the full version is nearly 60 pages long in PDF format and is a much better read, but you will have to dig deeper in the net to find them

there are the terra papers 2 written in the 80s which basically reiterates the originals but expands on some things, but all in all the same story

Edit: the papers were written by a Hopi Indian named Robert Morning Sky if it hasn't already been mentioned


[edit on 20/8/2008 by _Heretic]

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Turiddu
Almost every legitimate biography of Hitler suggests his interest in more "metaphysical" occult forms was very limited and he did not trust astrological charts. Hitler believed in "destiny" and the supposed supremacy of certain races and cultures over others but he did not believe in all the outrageous Occult and Mystical things people have attributed to him.

Legitimate biographies? Why would anyone on ATS be interested in legitimate biographies? ATS is alternative theory-based. (Why are there so many debunkers on ATS?)

Heinrich Himmler was the main occultist of the Partei and he is the main source of the Nazi Occult theories. Yes, he did send SS expeditions to Tibet and other areas but they were mainly searching for anthropological evidence of "ancient Aryans" in the form of Craniometry, eye color, hair color etc... Hitler was interested in ancient societies but mostly from the viewpoint of their rise and downfall, he was fascinated in broad reaching theories concerning the failure or mastery of certain cultures over others. His interests were not very much about Gods and such, in fact he was not very religious and the religious views he did have (like those of the regime as a whole) were inconsistent. Some members of the party were devout Christians, some atheists and a few (like Himmler) even had an interest in Germanic Paganism. Hitler himself gave some speeches that were quite supportive of Christianity but in private he criticized it as the reason Germany had failed to conquer Europe in the ancient "tribal" era. The Nazi Party was not a secret Occult society as some have claimed. Yes it did attract members who held strange beliefs concerning Paganism and Germanic mysticism but most of the core ideas were based around the myth of the Dolchstoßlegende and the quest for "living space" in the East at the expense of Slavic cultures.

The Spear of Destiny paints a different picture. The Nazi Occult explanation makes more sense. And all those Tibetan monks he imported? And the secret societies and sex magic he was initiated into?

Reading your posts it seems this theory has no factual basis and it is trying to use Hitler and the "Nazi Occult" myth to give it some kind of historic legitimacy.

Proof that it's a myth? Your word. I think there's overwhelming evidence a the Nazi Occult being the spiritual backbone of Nazism.

I find the whole subject fascinating. If you have proof that this is just a myth, please enlighten us with facts and not just opinions.

Here's a good overview of the Nazi Occult subject:

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:58 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, so this may have been already pointed out, but The Book of Enki, by Sitchin is fiction. I'm not insulting Dr. Sitchin, he intended it as fiction. I own the book. Read the intro carefully and it says just that.

I have the rest of his series in paperback and I love it. I just have to chime in because a lot of people seem to be under the impression that Book of Enki is non-fiction and I think that misconception takes credibility away from the subject.

I would also like to know where you got information that Hitler and Crowley had anything to do with one another.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:59 PM
As in the biography of any historical figure - each researcher has their own focus - agenda - and opinion.

Just because you read one that you agree with - does not make it fully accurate.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:03 PM

Originally posted by ExoByte
I couldn't figure out where to put this. It can fit in the Religion section, the General Section, or here. I chose here however as I think it fits here best. However, if the powers-that-be see it fit to move it elsewhere, I have no qualms with that.

Grab a seat, grab something to drink and keep an open mind as what I'm about to tell you has been continually dug into through strenuous research and late night studying. What I'm about to tell you now is a view, opinion and possibility you and I were never told in history class.

Excellent summary of your research. Thanks for posting it. I don't see the fuss about it. It makes perfect sense to me and gives good motivation behind the Adam and Eve story and the Flood. And the blue-eyed connection was awesome. I'd never heard of it before. And the DNA research on it, if true, is very curious. Just the kind of information I hoped to find on ATS.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:28 PM
reply to post by anti72

The Egyptian literature is also bereft of any boast, much less passing mention, of advanced aircraft. Obviously this situation doesn't seem peculiar to those who really want to believe that the ancient Egyptians flew around in airplanes.

Please correct me if I am wrong but it has been said that the Egyptians never wrote of building the pyramids either. Something that conventional history has no problem giving them credit for. Maybe the Egyptians were just the benefactors of the pyramids and the Hieroglyphs that conventional history has given them credit for.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Turiddu
My "opinion" on the World Wars is to accept the historically valid reasons for their causes instead of some fictional account written in the form of bad science fiction.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by Turiddu]

Historically valid? Since when is history valid? The North Koreans have their version of history. Communists have there version. Hitler had his version. Democrats have their version. Republicans have theirs. It's all spin.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:45 PM
reply to post by ExoByte

You really should read them yourself. If you would like a recap read your OP
. It is very similiar.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:52 PM
Wow, what a thread!

ExoByte, I am an Ayran. It's funny because I read this post and it reminds me of stuff I have said to friends of mine these past few years.

Trust me, I don't know too many other Aryans.... Nope, can't think of any!
When I say Aryan I mean those whose blonde hair colour is still as fair as it was , or almost as fair, as when they were born.

Maybe 1 in 10 males, tops, is possibly a true Aryan, but I'd garner the odds are quite alot higher than that.

My parent's weren't blond, and neither were their parents.
I'm really, really fair haired. My hair as an infant was almost golden(Mum made sure she put some in the baby album!).
So there you go.

Maybe the recess of abilities, psychic or otherwise, could be recessed in the gene, just like the gene/s that made my hair blond and my eyes blue.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:58 PM

Originally posted by bios
I can't say that I agree wholeheartedly with your entire hypothesis but in the huge amount of spare time I have had lately I too have been doing reading on similar subjects, particularly the Watchers, Book of Enoch, etc.

Fascinating stuff, and yes I do have preconcieved notions that I feel firmly about but I really liked the parallels you drew between the Watchers and the gray aliens. THAT is definitely in line withmy thoughts... good work even though I'm not in total agreement. Starred and flagged.

[edit on 8/19/2008 by bios]

Same here. And that the aliens are a form of angel. It's been my hunch for some time now. Especially considering the book of enoch and the mention of angels "not keeping their place" in Jude and "committing fornication." (Also Genesis 6)

Jude 6 And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day. 7 So too Sod´om and Go·mor´rah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before [us] as a [warning] example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. (New World Translation )

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 03:15 PM

Originally posted by ExoByte

Annunaki? or Annunazi?

Now here's where the plot thickens. Haven't you ever wondered why Hitler thought so highly of the Blond haired, Blue eyed race? The "pure-blooded" Aryan race? Haven't you wondered why Kings and Queens in "ye olde" times always inter-married? Haven't you wondered why past Kings and Queens believed in the "divine right to rule"? Haven't you wondered why at least 25 American Presidents are related to each other?

(further reading

To sum all this up and bringing the crêchendo'ing climax to an end, pay attention to this if you haven't gotten it by now. Hitler along with many others were firm believers in the idea that "Pure-blooded racially untainted Aryan's" are the direct descendants from Lord Enki himself, and therefore believed Aryan's have a direct right to rule the earth.

Now which one are you?

Now here are my thoughts on the matter, I hold no strong beliefs, merely thoughts/ideas on the matter.

- I think it's quite possible that the Sumerian "Watchers" aka "lesser gods" are the Grey aliens people report seeing all the time. Their job is to do exactly that: watch. Different generations have called them different things over the course of time: Gods -> Angels -> Grey Aliens.

- Do I honestly believe all this stuff? It's quite possible our species has been genetically altered. Science has told us that Homo Erectus existed, and that Homo Sapiens, on a chronological scale, literally came out of nowhere with a blink of an eye.

For further reading, click here

- It certainly answers a lot of questions that the Bible and many other religious books have left us wondering.

- No wonder Hitler often called the Aryans the "chosen race".

I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed typing it out. I implore you to do further research, if you have something to dispute, feel free to dispute it with sources. If you have something to ask, feel free to ask. If you have something to comment, feel free to comment. For further reading into the tablets/stories written by the Sumerians pertaining to their Gods/Goddesses and origins, consult

The aforementioned website was created by Sasha Lessin, Ph. D. She has put up a plethora of Dr. Zacharias Sitchin's translated Sumerian text on her website for anyone to read.

~ Fin

[edit on 8/18/2008 by ExoByte]

[edit on 8/18/2008 by ExoByte]

[edit on 8/18/2008 by ExoByte]

Great presentation but I contest that Enlil held the crown of purity and acted to stop the perverse entanglement of mankind by mass extinction. Enki was the Gandalf image that cherished life and raised retards of all forms of life. There are many holes and gaps that occur from extreme brain damage. Anu also led a daughter. One very important key player in this saturated soap opera. It makes no difference at this point. They are extinct. Gold still holds its value and diamonds are worthless.

So then where is the Hitler connection to the Jews? Don't tell me Jehovah forgot to come back and pick up the Jews.

World War Three is up next. Hitler no longer plays the game. Where are we going to find our next jewish orphan boy so we can get on the ball? I want to be around for part 4 before I die.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 03:47 PM


Occult Expeditions to Tibet?
Several postwar studies on Nazism and the Occult, such as Trevor Ravenscroft in The Spear of Destiny (1973), have asserted that under the influence of Haushofer and the Thule Society, Germany sent annual expeditions to Tibet from 1926 to 1943. Their mission was first to find and then to maintain contact with the Aryan forefathers in Shambhala and Agharti, hidden subterranean cities beneath the Himalayas. Adepts there were the guardians of secret occult powers, especially vril, and the missions sought their aid in harnessing those powers for creating an Aryan master race. According to these accounts, Shambhala refused any assistance, but Agharti agreed. Subsequently, from 1929, groups of Tibetans purportedly came to Germany and started lodges known as the Society of Green Men. In connection with the Green Dragon Society in Japan, through the intermediary of Haushofer, they supposedly helped the Nazi cause with their occult powers. Himmler was attracted to these groups of Tibetan-Agharti adepts and, purportedly from their influence, established the Ahnenerbe in 1935.


The Order of the Green Dragon (or the Green Dragon Society depending on your source) were/are a Japanese secret society dedicated to the mastery of the human body, and of the Time Organism or the Etheric Body. Mastery allowed access to great power apparently. They also had powers of prophecy. Other sources suggest that they were able to control the elements within their bodies (I think that these may have been the five oriental elements rather than the four western elements). Higher level initiates had to prove themselves by forcing a seed to germinate by their willpower. The Japanese order is distinguished from western secret societies by it's exacting demands - especially the price of failure.

Karl Haushofer (General and Professor) of Geo-Politics infamy (Alan LeVey was also a fanboy), was one of only three westerners ever, who have become members of the Green Dragon Society. Haushofer was a military attache in Tokyo when he joined before WW1. Later Haushofer was a Nazi and was influential in forming Nazi racial policy. Haushofer was also a member of the Vril Society or Luminous Lodge. The Vril Society is supposedly one of the sources of the Nazi party with early party members overlapping with the Vril, Thule and other secret societies [1].

The Vril Society, and later the Nazis, organised expeditions to Tibet starting in 1926, ending in 1942 trying to contact the Cave Oracles of Tibet. These expeditions contacted the Adepts of Agarthi. In 1929 some of the adepts returned to Germany with the Germans and formed lodges in Berlin, Munich and Nuremburg, though some sources say that only a lodge in Berlin was formed.

The Tibetan monks/adepts of Agarthi in Germany were known as the Society of Green Men. It's foremost adept was known as the Monk of the Green Gloves/Hands [2], who was renowned for his clairvoyant abilities and had mastered prophecy. Hitler had audiences with him.

The Society of the Green Men were apparently in astral contact with the Green Dragon Society, and had been for several centuries. The Green Dragon Society sent seven members to aid the Society of Green Men in Germany. The Green Men were to help further the Nazi cause and the projected mutation that would turn the Aryans into God-Men. The activities of the Green Men were under heavy Nazi security.

The Green Men fell out of favour in 1943/44. This may have due to the failure of the Tibetans to alter the course of the war, or it may have due to the involvement of Haushofer's son in the 1944 assassination attempt on Hitler. Some sources say that they were put on concentration camp rations. It is reported that when the Russians entered Berlin in 1945 they came across numerous bodies of Tibetans. They had all committed suicide by a knife stroke to the stomach. Some sources say the monks were in German uniform without insignia, other sources say they were naked. Because of his failure, Haushofer killed his wife and then committed seppuku himself at the end of the war, as would be expected by the Green Dragon Society.

The last remnants of the Society of the Green Men were eliminated in 1959 by the Communists after the Chinese annexation of Tibet in 1950.

I don't know about the current status of the Green Dragon Society in post war Japan, but there might be a link up between the Green Dragon and refugee Green Men.

[edit on 8/20/2008 by Matrix1111]

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 04:28 PM
reply to post by ExoByte

Very good read you should write a book i have never replyed to any thread on ats i just had to say thank you for the excellant theroy ten out of ten, keep up the good work

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 04:38 PM
To the op: I applaud your presentation and organization (the post was very readable); however, I would suggest using extreme caution when basing your hypothesis on Sitchin's work. I'm not going to waste space debunking him when a quick google search will suffice.

I would also like to point out the very likely possibility that Dr. Sasha Lessin is a huge fraud. If you research this guy a little more, you might find that his academic claims are questionable at best. I don't know many Ph.d's that sell conference courses for 900 bucks. I only point this out because you referenced his site.

I'm not trying to pour cold water over your efforts, I just think we need to do more research using more reliable resources. There's no question that modern biological anthropologists are still struggling to find answers for the simplest of questions (i.e. Regional Continuity vs. Replacement), but we still must attempt to gather our information from more reputable resources and rely on logic when sorting fact from fiction. Unfortunately, trying to mix misinterpreted religious writings with a mediocre understanding of human evolution results in web-sites like

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 05:13 PM
Interesting thread...However as NephraTari pointed out you are misrepresenting facts, either on purpose or through ignorance. This picture:

Is Egyptian, not Sumerian, and Sumerian Cuneform looks nothing like that...The depiction itself is generally agreed upon by historians and archaeologists to have been re-carved multiple times, as was common. This shot shows a much clearer bird-like glyph present in the image:

So entertaining thread, but you seem to lack a great deal of research and knowledge necessary to pull this all together and are drawing tenuous connections where none need exist.

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Matrix1111

Legitimate biographies? Why would anyone on ATS be interested in legitimate biographies?

That sums up some of the so called "believers" quite nicely. Far better to believe in poorly-made websites and unsubstantiated "new age" novels than actual histories written with witness testimony and references right?

The Spear of Destiny paints a different picture. The Nazi Occult explanation makes more sense. And all those Tibetan monks he imported? And the secret societies and sex magic he was initiated into?

Yes, such a trustworthy reference "", yes far more trustworthy than the dozens of legitimate books written on Hitler and his very own words. How does "The occult theory" make more sense? It doesn't, the historically accepted facts about Hitler and the Nazi Party make "more sense" than some fantasy stories made up to sell books. There is no denying the fact that some members of the regime had an interest in the occult and supernatural but to claim it was the main motivator of the entire Reich is pure nonsense.

Proof that it's a myth? Your word. I think there's overwhelming evidence a the Nazi Occult being the spiritual backbone of Nazism.

I find the whole subject fascinating. If you have proof that this is just a myth, please enlighten us with facts and not just opinions.

Here's a good overview of the Nazi Occult subject:

I never denied that Occult beliefs were a part of the Nazi party, they were a small part of the program to a certain minority within the party such as Heinrich Himmler. Hitler never espoused this beliefs and they were certainly not the main agenda of the party. The "Thule" Group did have some early connections to the NSDAP but Hitler never attended any of their meetings and the group never made a big impact on the party's ideals. Hitler never placed much faith in any of these fantasy groups, never consulted astrologist and never cared much for the occult.

From the man himself:

"The characteristic thing about these people [modern-day followers of the early Germanic religion] is that they rave about the old Germanic heroism, about dim prehistory, stone axes, spear and shield, but in reality are the greatest cowards that can be imagined. For the same people who brandish scholarly imitations of old German tin swords, and wear a dressed bearskin with bull's horns over their heads, preach for the present nothing but struggle with spiritual weapons, and run away as fast as they can from every Communist blackjack."

-Mein Kampf, p.499

"It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund."

-Hitler's Table Talk, p.61


As for the "Tibetan" angle and the Nazi expeditions, once again I am not arguing that. But as I said in an earlier post, these expeditions had just as much to do with Nazi beliefs in anthropology and racial science as they did with any "occult" ideas some members of the SS might have had. The fact that the Nazis had some interest in Buddhism, Tibet and monks does not lend any support to the claim that "Occultism was the main motivator of the Nazi Party".

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Turiddu]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Turiddu]

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 06:51 PM
It's amazing how the Sumerian tale parallels the Christian bible so much!!! This is a great thread, starred and flagged baby!

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