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Originally posted by jfj123
Your idea of not paying taxes is unrealistic in that anyone who doesn't will be prosecuted. Now since you believe not paying taxes is one of the "right ways" to change things, can I assume you do not pay taxes??? and if not, what have been your interactions with the government about it???
Originally posted by justamomma
Originally posted by jfj123
Your idea of not paying taxes is unrealistic in that anyone who doesn't will be prosecuted. Now since you believe not paying taxes is one of the "right ways" to change things, can I assume you do not pay taxes??? and if not, what have been your interactions with the government about it???
So then what are expecting??
Yes, put bluntly, if you want to be free of the government, ANYTHING short of taking the steps to remove them from your own life regardless of being jailed or whatever is pointless and for show. how much is your freedom to call the shots for your life worth it?
Originally posted by justamomma
Honestly, it doesn't matter what I am or am not doing because I am not taking the complaints we have against our government onto the world stage. If you are going to go to the world about it especially considering all that is going on, shouldn't you have at least taken the steps to lead by example so you have a solid platform on which to stand?
What do you expect them or anyone here at home to do if you haven't done what you can do *first* since this is all of your complaint you want awareness brought to?
You don't really expect the gov't to just step down and say "we concede bc you asked nicely," do YOu? Obviously not from what I have seen on the website. So are you expecting other ppl to make all the sacrifices and deal with the flack? someone will have to.
You are just going to keep letting them into your life to dictate how it should be run while maintaining your right to complain to the world?
[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]
Originally posted by justamomma
Honestly, it doesn't matter what I am or am not doing because I am not taking the complaints we have against our government onto the world stage. If you are going to go to the world about it especially considering all that is going on, shouldn't you have at least taken the steps to lead by example so you have a solid platform on which to stand?
What do you expect them or anyone here at home to do if you haven't done what you can do *first* since this is all of your complaint you want awareness brought to?
You don't really expect the gov't to just step down and say "we concede bc you asked nicely," do YOu? Obviously not from what I have seen on the website. So are you expecting other ppl to make all the sacrifices and deal with the flack? someone will have to.
You are just going to keep letting them into your life to dictate how it should be run while maintaining your right to complain to the world?
[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]
ARCHIVE-6 June, 2004 thru December 2006
NOTE: This archive is a copy of the FULL WTP Foundation web site home page as it existed on December 15, 2006. On that date, WTP deployed a redesigned website structure to better differentiate and support the separate missions of the WTP Foundation and the WTP Congress.
The original URL for the www.GiveMeLiberty.org home page now serves as the "portal" page to access both the new Foundation and Congress websites.
Please send reports of bad links to [email protected]
This Archive includes: The C-SPAN kick-off Landmark Right to Petition federal lawsuit filed 7/19, 2004, the Iraq War "resolution" exposed as constitutional fraud, Schulz's repeated victories in the 2nd Circuit COA requiring IRS to obtain Court Orders to enforce administrative seizures, WTP Petitions President Bush's Tax Reform Panel, Former IRS Agent/CPA Banister prosecuted, Tax honesty author Irwin Schiff censored and criminally prosecuted, WTP packs theaters across nation screening Aaron Russo's documentary "America: Freedom to Fascism", USDC dismisses landmark Right-to-Petition lawsuit -- Appeal filed, "1040 Checkmate?" article (6-10-06) details IRS and OMB complicity in PRA Form 1040 fraud, RTP federal Appeal completed, WTP deploys "V for Vendetta" en masse protest model for Right to Petition silent vigils in Washington DC.
ARCHIVE-5 July, 2003 thru June, 2004
Archive Includes: Employer Dick Simkanin railroaded by USDC, NY Times questions IRS Comissioner, Give Me Liberty 2004 Conference, Right To Petition lawsuit begins
New Damning Tax Research CD released publicly Petition to IRS & DOJ
ARCHIVE-4 November, 2002 thru June, 2003
Archive Includes: Freedom Drive to DC, Operation Stop Withholding, Liberty Hour censored, more Hunger Strikes, IRS Tax "Jihad" begins: Schiff, Simkanin, Kuglin
ARCHIVE-3 August, 2002 thru Oct, 2002
Archive Includes: The Schulz "TaxTermination" package, WTP web stickers, Larken Rose: "Please Prosecute Me", more Freedom Drive News, Schulz travels the Southeast and the Petitions for Redress of Grievances.
ARCHIVE-2 January, 2002 thru July, 2002
Archive includes: The Constitutional Crisis Has Begun, the February Citizens' Truth-in-Taxation Hearing, our NY Times full page ad, the April WTP press conference on IRS racketeering, the delivery of the Hearing record to Congress and the President, Congressional "non-responses", a June White House briefing question about Schulz, Schulz tells the government: "No Answers, No Taxes." (June16), Schulz travels around the US to start the WTP Congress and Freedom Drive 2002 news, organization and planning.
ARCHIVE-1 1999 thru January, 2002
Archive includes: the first National Press Club symposiums on the income tax, the tax Remonstrance, Project Toto, our series of full page ads in USA Today, the IRS "Walk-around", Bob Schulz's Hunger strike (July 2001), early preparations for the Truth-in-Taxation Hearing and the government's reneging (in Jan. 02) on their formal agreement to answer the Peoples' charges challenging the legal authority for the income tax.
Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by justamomma
first you must make people aware of what's happening and how it will affect their lives directly.
second, you must get them to act as one body to attempt change.
I know this may sound silly but the AARP is a very powerful lobby that can and does affect change in the United States.
Why not create another lobby. Let's call it Citizens for Freedom as example and group 100's of thousands of people together that are willing to work to a common goal. Contact senators and explain what we want or we will vote them out of office.
This would be a nice solid BEGINNING to real change.
Originally posted by justamomma
But this is the "hopeful outcome"... you know as well as I do that this is not the only outcome and if ppl would quit only looking at what they "hope" will happen and look around at reality, you will see this outcome is unlikely.
So hoping this will be the outcome is great, but what if this "pressure" on the world stage turns for the worse as it likely could if you would REALLY be aware of what is going on in the world? What kind of solution is going to be offered to us should we have a premature tightening of grip or worse yet, it gives another country the incentive it was looking for to attack?
The last two scenarios, particularly the first has just as much likelihood as happening as does the first, if not more considering.
This rush to put the pressure of our government onto the world stage is a not just a right, but it is a right that if taken has great responsibilities attached that shouldn't be ignored. Again, at first it seemed harmless until I did look into it and saw that the ppl behind it will keep pushing....
and this pushing isn't going to just affect them, but it could potentially effect all of us and I see little on the website to address the potentially negative outcome. Just bc you hope that things will turn out good doesn't mean they will and if they don't it may not be a "eh, no harm in trying, right?" You have to be prepared for the negative outcome and to help those (who didn't ask you to make this move on their behalf) with the SOLID solution you already had as a backup.
edited to add: hence, you may have the right, but one should always be responsible with the rights they have or really, they don't deserve them in the first place.
[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]
Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
justamomma, since you've finally calmed down & actually discussed your views in a rational manner, I have a new-found respect for you. The only misgivings I have at this point is that several pages of this thread reads as irrationally-inspired barrages of complaints.
The main problem with text-based internet forums is that the best show anyone can make is intellectual, not emotional...Emoticons aside (since they're of limited use anyway), discussions proceed more smoothly when people use more of their forebrain than midbrain.
Originally posted by Trustnoone1987
reply to post by Ggurl777
Lol here we go again. You are missing the whole point. People aren't doing this so that the government will see what is going on and feel bad for them. It's to call attention to the fact that our constitutional rights are being infringed upon. So it doesn't matter how "benevolent" our government is, the people protesting don't care. I agree with you that we need to make a plan. Got any ideas? At least these people are willing to go out and try to change things.
[edit on 21-8-2008 by Trustnoone1987]
Originally posted by justamomma
Yes, put bluntly, if you want to be free of the government, ANYTHING short of taking the steps to remove them from your own life regardless of being jailed or whatever is pointless and for show. how much is your freedom to call the shots for your life worth it?
Originally posted by Ggurl777
I don't have a plan but our current course ISN'T WORKING!!!!
Originally posted by OldMedic
Better re-read the U.S. Constitution. There is no provision in there that requires anyone to answer any petitions from the public.
Originally posted by MidnightDStroyerHey, this type of news needs to get out as much as possible...Otherwise the general population of "sleepers" won't wake up in time to smell the government's BS. If they don't wake up soon, then our Nation will wind up "dying in its sleep."
Originally posted by justamomma
For instance, we were never meant to be citizens of the country, but rather citizens of our state. So the better and possibly more effective approach would be to start rallying together on a smaller scale via our states.
Then the states can start overthrowing the government. The states were supposed to have the authority in the first place.
Originally posted by justamomma
If this is something you REALLY see as effective and the right thing to do, then it would seem to me you would want to educate those of us who don't understand, but are making the effort. As of yet, I am still hanging (but more than willing to educate on the counterview).