Mass Hunger Strike to Restore Constitutional Order Commences in U.S. Capital

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posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
Your idea of not paying taxes is unrealistic in that anyone who doesn't will be prosecuted. Now since you believe not paying taxes is one of the "right ways" to change things, can I assume you do not pay taxes??? and if not, what have been your interactions with the government about it???


So then what are expecting??


Yes, put bluntly, if you want to be free of the government, ANYTHING short of taking the steps to remove them from your own life regardless of being jailed or whatever is pointless and for show. how much is your freedom to call the shots for your life worth it?




posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by jfj123
Your idea of not paying taxes is unrealistic in that anyone who doesn't will be prosecuted. Now since you believe not paying taxes is one of the "right ways" to change things, can I assume you do not pay taxes??? and if not, what have been your interactions with the government about it???


So then what are expecting??


Yes, put bluntly, if you want to be free of the government, ANYTHING short of taking the steps to remove them from your own life regardless of being jailed or whatever is pointless and for show. how much is your freedom to call the shots for your life worth it?



My question to you is, are you doing all those things you are recommending everyone else do?
Are you NOT paying taxes?
Are you refusing to obey laws you deem illegal?
How is it working out so far?



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


Was that so hard? Had you responded like this seven pages ago a lot of drama could have been avoided. Without all the name calling and taunting, you present a rational viewpoint (one that I agree with).

Now, anyone who disagrees can address any issue and logically state why they disagree.

This is called a civilized debate. Feels good, doesn't?



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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Honestly, it doesn't matter what I am or am not doing because I am not taking the complaints we have against our government onto the world stage. If you are going to go to the world about it especially considering all that is going on, shouldn't you have at least taken the steps to lead by example so you have a solid platform on which to stand?

What do you expect them or anyone here at home to do if you haven't done what you can do *first* since this is all of your complaint you want awareness brought to?

You don't really expect the gov't to just step down and say "we concede bc you asked nicely," do YOu? Obviously not from what I have seen on the website. So are you expecting other ppl to make all the sacrifices and deal with the flack? someone will have to.

You are just going to keep letting them into your life to dictate how it should be run while maintaining your right to complain to the world?




[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Honestly, it doesn't matter what I am or am not doing because I am not taking the complaints we have against our government onto the world stage. If you are going to go to the world about it especially considering all that is going on, shouldn't you have at least taken the steps to lead by example so you have a solid platform on which to stand?

What do you expect them or anyone here at home to do if you haven't done what you can do *first* since this is all of your complaint you want awareness brought to?

You don't really expect the gov't to just step down and say "we concede bc you asked nicely," do YOu? Obviously not from what I have seen on the website. So are you expecting other ppl to make all the sacrifices and deal with the flack? someone will have to.

You are just going to keep letting them into your life to dictate how it should be run while maintaining your right to complain to the world?




[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]


Of course it matters what you are or are not doing. You are suggesting everyone do these things you have posted. Why would you suggest them if you yourself would not do them? Are you someone who stands behind what they says or are you someone who just talks to cause trouble for others for fun? Which is it?



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


I am not looking to draw attention to myself. Listen, you want to make the world aware, but then what? what are the solutions to this that are going to be offered when the world is watching and listening?

To be aware is not enough. That solves nothing. You can't argue that most don't even *want* to be aware right now. You know why that is? Not because they are selfish pricks necessarily, but a lot of ppl are scared bc the real solutions are more than they are williing to do right now... as you have shown yourself unwilling to do.

Let's say you and some friends are in a cave and there is a grizzly bear blocking the entrance to the cave. The fact that you and your friends are aware of this doesn't make it wise to go poking the bear with a stick. You have to have a SOLID plan before you risk drawing the bears attention to yourself.

So my complaints and what I am doing or not doing is not something that I want to draw attention to. All I can do is study and learn and act on a personal level right now w/out making a big to-do about it. I have no solution that would justify such an action as trying to get the world's attention bc I am not sure I have all the information for what I can be doing first. I educate myself and those around me in the mean time.

To make ppl aware here at home and abroad is not enough if ppl aren't educated FIRST and there is no solution to offer... in fact, it could easily cause more tension in a world that is on the edge as it is. We have countries puffing their chests (not just America), we have men and women who are in volitile situations all over the world, and a gov't that is looking for any reason to tighten its grip....

I ask again.... what is the solution you are going to offer the world if/when you have their attention? You will have drawn the attention this way, pointed out the problems to not only ppl here, but those abroad... there is a SOLID plan for poking the "bear" with a stick is there not?



[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Honestly, it doesn't matter what I am or am not doing because I am not taking the complaints we have against our government onto the world stage. If you are going to go to the world about it especially considering all that is going on, shouldn't you have at least taken the steps to lead by example so you have a solid platform on which to stand?

What do you expect them or anyone here at home to do if you haven't done what you can do *first* since this is all of your complaint you want awareness brought to?

You don't really expect the gov't to just step down and say "we concede bc you asked nicely," do YOu? Obviously not from what I have seen on the website. So are you expecting other ppl to make all the sacrifices and deal with the flack? someone will have to.

You are just going to keep letting them into your life to dictate how it should be run while maintaining your right to complain to the world?




[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]


Lets take a closer look at these "cop out" protesters shall we:



ARCHIVE-6 June, 2004 thru December 2006

NOTE: This archive is a copy of the FULL WTP Foundation web site home page as it existed on December 15, 2006. On that date, WTP deployed a redesigned website structure to better differentiate and support the separate missions of the WTP Foundation and the WTP Congress.

The original URL for the www.GiveMeLiberty.org home page now serves as the "portal" page to access both the new Foundation and Congress websites.

Please send reports of bad links to info@GiveMeLiberty.org

This Archive includes: The C-SPAN kick-off Landmark Right to Petition federal lawsuit filed 7/19, 2004, the Iraq War "resolution" exposed as constitutional fraud, Schulz's repeated victories in the 2nd Circuit COA requiring IRS to obtain Court Orders to enforce administrative seizures, WTP Petitions President Bush's Tax Reform Panel, Former IRS Agent/CPA Banister prosecuted, Tax honesty author Irwin Schiff censored and criminally prosecuted, WTP packs theaters across nation screening Aaron Russo's documentary "America: Freedom to Fascism", USDC dismisses landmark Right-to-Petition lawsuit -- Appeal filed, "1040 Checkmate?" article (6-10-06) details IRS and OMB complicity in PRA Form 1040 fraud, RTP federal Appeal completed, WTP deploys "V for Vendetta" en masse protest model for Right to Petition silent vigils in Washington DC.

ARCHIVE-5 July, 2003 thru June, 2004

Archive Includes: Employer Dick Simkanin railroaded by USDC, NY Times questions IRS Comissioner, Give Me Liberty 2004 Conference, Right To Petition lawsuit begins
New Damning Tax Research CD released publicly Petition to IRS & DOJ

ARCHIVE-4 November, 2002 thru June, 2003

Archive Includes: Freedom Drive to DC, Operation Stop Withholding, Liberty Hour censored, more Hunger Strikes, IRS Tax "Jihad" begins: Schiff, Simkanin, Kuglin

ARCHIVE-3 August, 2002 thru Oct, 2002

Archive Includes: The Schulz "TaxTermination" package, WTP web stickers, Larken Rose: "Please Prosecute Me", more Freedom Drive News, Schulz travels the Southeast and the Petitions for Redress of Grievances.

ARCHIVE-2 January, 2002 thru July, 2002

Archive includes: The Constitutional Crisis Has Begun, the February Citizens' Truth-in-Taxation Hearing, our NY Times full page ad, the April WTP press conference on IRS racketeering, the delivery of the Hearing record to Congress and the President, Congressional "non-responses", a June White House briefing question about Schulz, Schulz tells the government: "No Answers, No Taxes." (June16), Schulz travels around the US to start the WTP Congress and Freedom Drive 2002 news, organization and planning.

ARCHIVE-1 1999 thru January, 2002
Archive includes: the first National Press Club symposiums on the income tax, the tax Remonstrance, Project Toto, our series of full page ads in USA Today, the IRS "Walk-around", Bob Schulz's Hunger strike (July 2001), early preparations for the Truth-in-Taxation Hearing and the government's reneging (in Jan. 02) on their formal agreement to answer the Peoples' charges challenging the legal authority for the income tax.


We the People Foundation Archive

I could go on....but I will wait until you pull your jaw off the floor first...


[edit on 21/8/2008 by _Heretic]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


first you must make people aware of what's happening and how it will affect their lives directly.

second, you must get them to act as one body to attempt change.
I know this may sound silly but the AARP is a very powerful lobby that can and does affect change in the United States.

Why not create another lobby. Let's call it Citizens for Freedom as example and group 100's of thousands of people together that are willing to work to a common goal. Contact senators and explain what we want or we will vote them out of office.

This would be a nice solid BEGINNING to real change.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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Well, I am not quite sure why you are expecting my jaw to hit the floor. I am not sure if there is a misunderstanding of what I am saying or not. I have been looking at the site and I am not sure if you have noticed, but I have toned it down a bit


The fact remains that this hunger strike is meant to draw the attention of the world this way when things are already stressed not to mention, as stated on the site, to put pressure on a gov't that obviously is looking for reasons to have more control.

I have been preparing myself as well as helping those around me by educating them and showing them how to help prepare themselves. By no means am I ready though to have the attention drawn to my complaints against my government bc let's be honest, they aren't going to just step down.

It would be one thing if this wasn't being done with the intent just to bring attention to ppl here, but no.. this is not good enough. We want the stressed world to know our complaints with the government.

At first it was funny until I went and looked at the website and realized "these ppl REALLY are seriously trying to draw the attention this way and put pressure on the gov't IN FRONT OF THE WORLD."

Now it isn't so much funny as it is VERY troubling to me. I don't see any real solution other than they are wanting the pressure and the worlds attention. The personal solutions are great... but again, why poke them in front of the world where "chests are puffed" as it is when many are JUST now starting to wake up and prepare and we have men and women who are in harms way across the globe if there is no solid solution to offer?

I get what is going on here in this country, but I also am well aware that our troubles are not the only troubles going on around the world.

Am I making my question any more clear to you?

[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by justamomma
 


first you must make people aware of what's happening and how it will affect their lives directly.

second, you must get them to act as one body to attempt change.
I know this may sound silly but the AARP is a very powerful lobby that can and does affect change in the United States.

Why not create another lobby. Let's call it Citizens for Freedom as example and group 100's of thousands of people together that are willing to work to a common goal. Contact senators and explain what we want or we will vote them out of office.

This would be a nice solid BEGINNING to real change.



But this is the "hopeful outcome"... you know as well as I do that this is not the only outcome and if ppl would quit only looking at what they "hope" will happen and look around at reality, you will see this outcome is unlikely.

So hoping this will be the outcome is great, but what if this "pressure" on the world stage turns for the worse as it likely could if you would REALLY be aware of what is going on in the world? What kind of solution is going to be offered to us should we have a premature tightening of grip or worse yet, it gives another country the incentive it was looking for to attack?

The last two scenarios, particularly the first has just as much likelihood as happening as does the first, if not more considering.

This rush to put the pressure of our government onto the world stage is a not just a right, but it is a right that if taken has great responsibilities attached that shouldn't be ignored. Again, at first it seemed harmless until I did look into it and saw that the ppl behind it will keep pushing....

and this pushing isn't going to just affect them, but it could potentially effect all of us and I see little on the website to address the potentially negative outcome. Just bc you hope that things will turn out good doesn't mean they will and if they don't it may not be a "eh, no harm in trying, right?" You have to be prepared for the negative outcome and to help those (who didn't ask you to make this move on their behalf) with the SOLID solution you already had as a backup.

edited to add: hence, you may have the right, but one should always be responsible with the rights they have or really, they don't deserve them in the first place.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

But this is the "hopeful outcome"... you know as well as I do that this is not the only outcome and if ppl would quit only looking at what they "hope" will happen and look around at reality, you will see this outcome is unlikely.

So hoping this will be the outcome is great, but what if this "pressure" on the world stage turns for the worse as it likely could if you would REALLY be aware of what is going on in the world? What kind of solution is going to be offered to us should we have a premature tightening of grip or worse yet, it gives another country the incentive it was looking for to attack?

The last two scenarios, particularly the first has just as much likelihood as happening as does the first, if not more considering.

This rush to put the pressure of our government onto the world stage is a not just a right, but it is a right that if taken has great responsibilities attached that shouldn't be ignored. Again, at first it seemed harmless until I did look into it and saw that the ppl behind it will keep pushing....

and this pushing isn't going to just affect them, but it could potentially effect all of us and I see little on the website to address the potentially negative outcome. Just bc you hope that things will turn out good doesn't mean they will and if they don't it may not be a "eh, no harm in trying, right?" You have to be prepared for the negative outcome and to help those (who didn't ask you to make this move on their behalf) with the SOLID solution you already had as a backup.

edited to add: hence, you may have the right, but one should always be responsible with the rights they have or really, they don't deserve them in the first place.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]


I think you are doing a great thing for trying to educate people

this hunger strike, which was never meant to be nor advertised AS a solution, is educating people too

whatever "image" damage you think they could cause pales in comparison to what has already been done by the very GOV they protest

many on the world stage see us as torturers, and a people that allow it

the solution is awareness and action, you said so yourself, I think this is a bold attempt at that, but that is my subjective opinion

the 60s are full of this type of activity, they are not crossing any lines that have not been crossed before on the world stage

I am not sure your fears are justified here, but your a patriot for worrying about it

peace

Edit: rephrase

[edit on 21/8/2008 by _Heretic]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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justamomma, since you've finally calmed down & actually discussed your views in a rational manner, I have a new-found respect for you. The only misgivings I have at this point is that several pages of this thread reads as irrationally-inspired barrages of complaints.

The main problem with text-based internet forums is that the best show anyone can make is intellectual, not emotional...Emoticons aside (since they're of limited use anyway), discussions proceed more smoothly when people use more of their forebrain than midbrain.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
justamomma, since you've finally calmed down & actually discussed your views in a rational manner, I have a new-found respect for you. The only misgivings I have at this point is that several pages of this thread reads as irrationally-inspired barrages of complaints.

The main problem with text-based internet forums is that the best show anyone can make is intellectual, not emotional...Emoticons aside (since they're of limited use anyway), discussions proceed more smoothly when people use more of their forebrain than midbrain.


uh, thanks.. I think
Perceive me however you will, but you will notice that I was being very rational before I let "it" out. To not take the time to read replies before disagreeing with me or asking questions that I had already answered is hardly being rational. It is quite the opposite.

I still find this idea to be not thought through properly, but I concede. I have obviously stated my point. My main problem is that this is being done in the name of Americans and no one voted for all of us to be represented in this manner by the participants, but I wish you all well on your crusade. If nothing else, hopefully someone will show up with a hot dog stand and make some good money!



posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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I just read half and browsed over the rest of the thread and cant believe
some of the post's....some of you are completely missing the point.
A gathering like this is meant to attract attention/disrupt thing's a bit.
A hunger strike on this scale will do the above and force humanitarian
group's to demand the Government react.(id hope)
Independent media will show up and make it world news.
Violent protest will do nothing for your country except show you have become like your leader.
Maybe Australia should do the same on the same or following day

It's all about number's the people who think it wont make a difference and dont show up will only make it fail.

Anyway it just makes me mad when people think they cant make a difference.



posted on Aug, 22 2008 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by Trustnoone1987
reply to post by Ggurl777
 


Lol here we go again. You are missing the whole point. People aren't doing this so that the government will see what is going on and feel bad for them. It's to call attention to the fact that our constitutional rights are being infringed upon. So it doesn't matter how "benevolent" our government is, the people protesting don't care. I agree with you that we need to make a plan. Got any ideas? At least these people are willing to go out and try to change things.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Trustnoone1987]




I don't have a plan but our current course ISN'T WORKING!!!!



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Better re-read the U.S. Constitution. There is no provision in there that requires anyone to answer any petitions from the public.

I hope those idiots do go on a hunger strike, and starve themselves to death. A few less of the intellectually challenged to have to fees.



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Yes, put bluntly, if you want to be free of the government, ANYTHING short of taking the steps to remove them from your own life regardless of being jailed or whatever is pointless and for show. how much is your freedom to call the shots for your life worth it?

Actually, WTP is already aware of what you've just said here...In continuing to get a response from Ron Paul about the petitions, they're now getting confirmed documentation on how far the government is willing to go in order to deny responsibilities.

Originally posted by Ggurl777
I don't have a plan but our current course ISN'T WORKING!!!!

The email exchange (linked below) between Dr. Paul's staff & Bob Schulz indicates that WTP is fully aware of how far the American Public may have to go...

Earlier in the thread, I also indicated that Ron Paul's "non-response" may have more to do with Dr. Paul's staff than himself directly...And, judging from the email exchange (linked from the webpage) here, this seems to be the case. It also documents what kind of BS the government is willing to throw & make it that much harder for the government to deny the truth behind what lies the general public learns from the MSM.

Also, some other bad news about the plans for the Hunger Protest...Further down the page at the same link above. It seems that the Parks Commission who are in charge of issuing the protest permits is trying to put even more of a damper on the peaceful protest by making it as hard as possible to break up the 24/7 allowance, as you'll find at the link. WTP is already trying to alter their plans a bit (which could involve digging out the 'ol "V costumes" again
) to be able to continue with the protest as long as necessary, regardless of how they try to limit WTP's endurance.

Hey, this type of news needs to get out as much as possible...Otherwise the general population of "sleepers" won't wake up in time to smell the government's BS. If they don't wake up soon, then our Nation will wind up "dying in its sleep."


Originally posted by OldMedic
Better re-read the U.S. Constitution. There is no provision in there that requires anyone to answer any petitions from the public.

Don't you know what the word "redress" means? I also suggest you take a look at the link above & also learn to research a bit of history about the actual practice of such petitions...


More updates as I find them...



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyerHey, this type of news needs to get out as much as possible...Otherwise the general population of "sleepers" won't wake up in time to smell the government's BS. If they don't wake up soon, then our Nation will wind up "dying in its sleep."


I am not anti educating ppl HERE on their rights and teaching them how to overthrow the government in their own personal lives.

If you REALLY want to succeed though, education of AT THE LEAST yourselves should be the first step.

For instance, we were never meant to be citizens of the country, but rather citizens of our state. So the better and possibly more effective approach would be to start rallying together on a smaller scale via our states.

Then the states can start overthrowing the government. The states were supposed to have the authority in the first place.

You are jumping from one large scale to an even larger scale by appealing to the world (which still makes no sense to me how this would be a wise choice to pressure the gov't in front of the world).

There are steps that ppl are missing because of the lack of true education in how our system was set up.... the steps really should start via the states rather than appealing directly to the united states gov't and certainly should NEVER involve bringing the world into it, especially through methods intended to incite guilt.


EDITED TO ADD: And I do question motives when I have presented questions that have yet to be answered properly, if even really answered at all. If this is something you REALLY see as effective and the right thing to do, then it would seem to me you would want to educate those of us who don't understand, but are making the effort. As of yet, I am still hanging (but more than willing to educate on the counterview).

[edit on 23-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 23 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
For instance, we were never meant to be citizens of the country, but rather citizens of our state. So the better and possibly more effective approach would be to start rallying together on a smaller scale via our states.

Then the states can start overthrowing the government. The states were supposed to have the authority in the first place.

You're correct...Sovereign Citizens first created the State Governments, then the representatives of the State Governments created the Federal Government & that's the true chain of sovereignty from top to bottom. The problem is that the feds started adopting foreign laws & making their own laws (against their contract of employment through the Constitution) in the attempt to turn that chain of sovereignty backwards--The problem is, they've mostly succeeded by using propaganda & fear-inducement to get the People to start believing it, one generation after another. That's why education in the truth is so important. There's still too many millions of people that are so plugged into the lies of the feds that they have trouble seeing the origins & principles of the Constitutional Republic of America.

If you do a good enough search just on ATS alone, you should be able to find linked news articles that indicate that several States are resisting the out-of-control Feds...Resisting the Real ID (here), coming up with State Laws & Municipal Codes, etc. that are much more relaxed, in line with the Constitution & more restrictive against Fed influence.

WTP is trying to show the world that increasing numbers of people don't approve of our government & doing something about it, but the education is primarily focused for the People of the US...And that's spreading across State boundaries too. It's when the Feds started cracking down on their efforts to educate the public with the truth is when WTP had to start standing up to the Feds. Bob Schulz alone has been a "thorn in the feds' butt" for the past couple of decades...



Originally posted by justamomma
If this is something you REALLY see as effective and the right thing to do, then it would seem to me you would want to educate those of us who don't understand, but are making the effort. As of yet, I am still hanging (but more than willing to educate on the counterview).

In light of your mentioning that the States should be fronting the resistance...Well, the Citizens of the States must be also supporting the States too. On an ever-increasing basis, more people are actually getting their federal (14th Amendment) citizenships revoked simply by voiding their federal contracts through UCC 1-207 due to fraud & retaining their State Citizenships: The 14th Amendment was never meant to be applied to people who were already born as State Citizens (It was meant to grant federal citizenship for the newly-freed slaves & to regulate foreign immigrants), but have been fraudulently drawn into "contracting" for it, through the Birth Certificate.

One of the main benefits is that Sovereign Citizens of the States can uphold their Rights in an Article III Court & become largely immune to Statutory laws...Including illegal taxation by the IRS! But since the federal government will no longer provide any federal "benefits" for any "non-resident alien" (this is the official designation of someone who has no contract with the federal government & does not live on any "federal zone" territories), each State Citizen must provide for their own retirement, living expenses, etc. & can't accept any "welfare" benefits. Basically, once people stop accepting or relying on federal benefits, they must take the inherent responsibility to take care of themselves...Without them!

Myself & others have already posted some basic info on how people are already doing this over in this thread...Mostly it involves Remembering Who You Are & relying on the laws that protect you from a fraudulent government.

I've been researching the law & consulting with legal experts for the past few months...And I'm always learning more. I'm trying to do my part in education too: If you search my past posting, you'll see that the majority of my posts are really nothing more than passing on info here.

The real trick to "educating" is to get more people to open their eyes to see what they can learn. That's what WTP is doing too...But they need widespread media attention to do it & that's what the Hunger Protest is a part of.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]





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