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Mass Hunger Strike to Restore Constitutional Order Commences in U.S. Capital

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posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:08 PM
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Thank you, OP for a fleeting glimmer of hope.

1. I would bet there will be some wealthy hot- dog cartsmen around there.
2. This is America ( see above ).
3. Ron Paul ? God blessem, he used to be my rep ( I moved ). There is an old saying in Texas : don't matter if you sign on as the piano player... if
you go to work in a whorehouse- sooner or later you're going tits up.




posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

1. This isn't going to make a dent in any of the goals cited as being the purpose.



How do you know? It's never been tried before. The other option is what, exactly? Armed revolution? Most Americans are (despite what a few ignorant people in other countries think) peace loving people, and willing to try anything that offers even a small chance of success without resorting to violence.



2. The constitution doesn't support laying guilt on the world through any methods, let alone a disgraceful one such as this.


It's not about making the world feel guilty. It's about showing the world what they believe. And guess what? The Constitution absolutely supports that.



3. Ghandi did not use this method to help India gain independence from Britain.


We're not Ghandi and this isn't about India. It's about the United States. And the government absolutely does hold the key to our freedom because they have these things called "prisons" for people who don't do what they say.



Now you have the truth. It is obvious that lying to yourselves and others and denying the TRUTH that has been posted is more important to you so that you can receive your pats on the back while accomplishing nothing excepting making fools of yourselves...


You haven't posted the truth, you've posted your opinion and called it the truth. Obviously nobody's stopping you from doing so, although nearly everyone here seems to beg to differ. That should tell you something.



Starve away!!



At least they're doing something. That's more than can be said for most people. You claim to deny my ignorance, but you've only denied reality. The reality is, people are running out of options and there's not too many choices left.... but there are a few ideas left to try.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
The minute you stop the dollars circulating thats when the shiit hits the fan,
so what do you stand to lose verses what you have to gain

There are tow other ways (that I'm aware of) to stop the money going to them but still keeps it in your wallet--

One: Stop being a federal citizen, as defined by the 14th Amendment (Don't worry...Your Natural-born State Citizenship is intact), & refuse to "contribute" your money to the government mafia. How to do this has been discussed over in this thread, in the vicinity of page 14.

Two: Simply take a leaf from the book of the Founding Forefather...Specifically, the Journal of the Continental Congress 1:105-113, unanimously passed in 1771 (which has never been repealed, only superseded by the Constitution in those matters contained within the Constitution), which states:

If money is wanted by Rulers who have in any manner oppressed the People, they may retain it until their grievances are redressed, and thus peaceably procure relief, without trusting to despised petitions or disturbing the public tranquility.

Either way, the money stops flowing, it stays with the People & certainly gets the attention of both government & public.

The reason that the We The People organization is doing the hunger protest is for the publicity...The MSM ignores reporting any real issues against government actions, so they have to do what it takes to get the attention of as much press as possible. Also, the IRS has been hitting people who've signed WTP petitions through extortion techniques...Extortion, BTW, is explicitly mentioned, forbidden & punishable within the IRC itself.

When the law-makers show such disregard for the law, that attitude flows naturally into the fabric of society, but WTP is still working for peaceful means before there's nothing left but to exercise the 2nd Amendment. This is how the Founding Forefathers went about it too...They tried every peaceful means possible to get redress from a ruler sitting across the ocean, but WTP still has one advantage the Founding Forefathers didn't have--Camping out on the "rulers' front yard."



Originally posted by mattifikation
Somebody else said they would be glad to go, if they were near Washington DC. There are likely thousands of people who would be willing to participate if it weren't for the same problem.

Not everyone can afford to make the trip, sadly.

If you read the article at the WTP website (on the Foundation side, not the Congress side, in the section titled The Urgency), they mention several ideas to make the trip more affordable.



Originally posted by justamomma
EDUCATE yourself and others. Key word in the above quote is "democracy." We are meant to be a consititutional republic which is a FORM of democracy, yes.. but far from the intent of a pure democracy.

WTP focuses on public education in the Constitution...With none of that bi-partisan bullcrap that the MSM shoves down everyone's throats. But every step they take to educate, the Government keeps shoving back with extortion, threats of financial/legal ruination. This is why they need the publicity...It's extremely difficult to educate when the government threatens everybody for merely listening to what they're teaching. By looking over the WTP website more thoroughly, that much can be seen...Which is what won't be seen from MSM.


Originally posted by justamomma
Unfortunately we have along way to go in the way of the 1st ammendment. Starving yourself is not educating or understanding. It is appealing. That wasn't covered in the original constitution.

The "appealing" that you mention is for public awareness of their path to educate people. Considering how much the government & MSM has been surppressing their efforts, WTP must first come to widespread public attention. That's the whole purpose behind WTP...They have to cut through the suppression just to let people know that education is the key to holding the government accountable for their violations against the Constitution. The primary purpose of the Hunger Protest is not to appeal to the government...It's to bring Constitutional awareness to public attention by publicity.

If you've read down to the March 30, 2008 sections at the website, you'll find that the MSM didn't do much at all for their "V's Protest in D.C." They got only a small article in the Washington Post. However, they got more attention from non-MSM sources: People who stopped & asked questions, took pictures, filmed video & posted on the internet.

So, tell me how WTP can draw public awareness (without using violence) with such wide MSM non-exposure? With each & every protest & each & every petition they've sent up to the government, more people learn...So, they keep at it until enough people learn to make the difference. Publicity is their goal...Not appeasment, for how else can they educate when too many people don't even hear the news that "class is open?"


Originally posted by justamomma
Is minimum wage constitutional? If you say yes, quit starving yourself.
Is welfare constitutional? if you say yes, quit starving yourself.
Do teachers have the right to arm themselves? if you say no, quit starving yourself.
Can I smoke some dope and snort some coke in my home should I so desire? If you say no, quit starving yourself.
Can I burn the flag and drag it around in the mud if I want? If you say no, quit starving yourself

If you have answered any of these questions in the manner that lines up with me saying "quit starving yourself"

If you read at the WTP site, or maybe even write your questions to them, you'll find that their answers will confirm what's in the Constitution & what's not in it. Your hate-filled diatribe comes from non-knowledge of the principles that they're standing up for.


Originally posted by justamomma
ONe more thing for those who want this country back to its original intent. The constitution only wrote out what you already have the right to do. No one can give it to you bc it is already in your possession at all times.

That's one of the points that WTP tries to educate people for...They're not "whining to be given back what they've lost," far from it. What they want from the government is for them to pay the consequences of the blatant violations that the government has committed against their Oaths of Office. What WTP seeks is for the government to do its job in defending our Rights instead of violating them at every turn.

What WTP is doing is the same things that you gave credit to Ghandi for...Learn about WTP & you'll find out.

Learn some facts behind what it is that you're complaining against...Preferably before you start complaining against it. You come into this thread with blatant contempt without even knowing anything about what it is that you show contempt for.


Originally posted by jfj123
Thanks for posting this !!!
I haven't heard a thing about it.
Now lets take this a step further and start contacting our local media and telling them we want coverage of this.

That's exactly the kind of response WTP is looking for...Generate awareness! Get educated in the Constitution & learn to rely on yourself for what the Constitution forbids the government to do. Spread the awareness that the Founding Forefathers had the People in mind when they wrote the Constitution & Bill of Rights.

From Thomas Jefferson:
"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."
"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion."
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
"I was bold in the pursuit of knowledge, never fearing to follow truth and reason to whatever results they led, and bearding every authority which stood in their way."
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
"Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
"The republican is the only form of government which is not eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind."
"There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world."
"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government."

-----------Continued Below---------



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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---------Concluded From Above------

From John Adams:
"A government of laws, and not of men."
"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
"If we do not lay out ourselves in the service of mankind whom should we serve?"
"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people."
"Liberty, according to my metaphysics is a self-determining power in an intellectual agent. It implies thought and choice and power."
"Power always thinks... that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws."
"There are two educations. One should teach us how to make a living and the other how to live."
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. "

From Ben Franklin:
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest."
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn."
"If you would have a faithful servant, and one that you like, serve yourself."
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God."
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
"The Constitution only guarantees the American people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
"Where liberty is, there is my country."

From George Washington:
"Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness."
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
"Laws made by common consent must not be trampled on by individuals."
"Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty."
"The Constitution is the guide which I never will abandon."
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."


Originally posted by ToolFanMael
I doubt the aim is to actually change anything.. these people cant be that stupid... its for publicity.. good or bad to draw more attention to it is all

And that's exactly what the Hunger Protest is for...To increase public awareness on how corrupted the government actually has gotten & how far away they are from their Constitutional Oaths of Office. That's the "change" WTP is aiming at. The more people that see this fact, the more the People can do to "alter or abolish" the destructive government.

WTP understands these ideals & understands that the Constitution was written accordingly with strict limitations on government powers...And acts upon these ideals. So, justamomma, do you still hold an unknowing & unreasoned contempt for WTP standing up for the very same Constitutional principles that you condone?

[edit on 20-8-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:03 PM
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Well I guess soon were going to have a MASS faminie then MASS death because chances of anything being restored is ZERO!!!!

Have fun starving while i eat my fruit and vegetables!!!!



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by Ggurl777
 


Have fun sitting around doing nothing while your rights are slowly taken away. I have a question. Why so much negativity towards people wanting to make a change?



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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WAY to much for this one ( I mean come on ? ) go eat a hotdog or something .



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by Trustnoone1987
reply to post by Ggurl777
 


Have fun sitting around doing nothing while your rights are slowly taken away. I have a question. Why so much negativity towards people wanting to make a change?


I don't think you get my friend...
That protesting CRAP doesn't work the only real way to stop this mess is to get inside the SYSTEM and normally when yougo agaisn't the system you get taken out of IT!!!!
WE NEED A NEW GAME PLAN MY FRIEND!!!!
If the people in charge are the ones who starved KILLED MURDER AND CAUSE WAR WITH NO CARE FOR HUMAN LIFE then what makes you thihnk their so kind and benevolent to change so a MASS of people live!!!??
Are you freakin CRAZY they strated wars and caused millions of peoploe to die come on now....
USE YA HEAD!!!!!!



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by Trustnoone1987
reply to post by Ggurl777
 


Have fun sitting around doing nothing while your rights are slowly taken away. I have a question. Why so much negativity towards people wanting to make a change?


I don't think you get my friend...
That protesting CRAP doesn't work the only real way to stop this mess is to get inside the SYSTEM and normally when yougo agaisn't the system you get taken out of IT!!!!
WE NEED A NEW GAME PLAN MY FRIEND!!!!
If the people in charge are the ones who starved KILLED MURDER AND CAUSE WAR WITH NO CARE FOR HUMAN LIFE then what makes you thihnk their so kind and benevolent to change so a MASS of people live!!!??
Are you freakin CRAZY they strated wars and caused millions of peoploe to die come on now....
USE YA HEAD!!!!!!



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Ggurl777
 


Lol here we go again. You are missing the whole point. People aren't doing this so that the government will see what is going on and feel bad for them. It's to call attention to the fact that our constitutional rights are being infringed upon. So it doesn't matter how "benevolent" our government is, the people protesting don't care. I agree with you that we need to make a plan. Got any ideas? At least these people are willing to go out and try to change things.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by Trustnoone1987]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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its more to make people aware
public opinion counts



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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Good luck to the ones on the hunger strike .

Ghandi did do some good with this approach .

I have a sad feeling that all the pain and agony they will go threw will fall on deaf and uncaring ears . And the very few elected officials that feel your plight and they will not be able to do any thing due to the corporate masters of the government they will never allow anything to break their strangle hold they have on the government .

hope it goes some good but I am pessimistic about any real change that will be brought out from this act



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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Unless you are planning on supporting this starvation crap by participating, you really have NO RIGHT to argue in favor. NOw....

I hadn't planned on replying but I changed my mind. You ppl are idiots. LOOK AROUND YOU MAN!!! We STILL have it good compared to MOST other places around the world. MOST of us ARE NOT starving or living in the conditions that ppl in 3rd world countries are having to live in.

BUT OMG!!! Look world, we are losing our rights and the way we are going to handle it is by starving ourselves! GIVE ME A BREAK. You all make me sick to my stomach. You use what you have been given IRRESPONSIBLY and you deserve nothing less but to lose your freedoms.

There are momma's across the world who are watching their babies starve to death before their eyes. IT IS A REALITY THEY CAN'T ESCAPE and yet here we are refusing to eat to get our way and wanting to display this on the world stage.

Citing the constitution as a reason and the right to starve yourself because we aren't gettting our way is a GROSS violation of what you have been given!! GROSS, SICK, and an abuse of your freedoms.

Freedom comes with responsibility. Our losing our rights has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the world and starving yourself for attention is irresponsible and cowardly.... not at all honorable.

You ppl are STILL blessed. IF you want your rights to live your life as you choose, then flucking TAKE THEM.... but don't think your self proclaimed righteous crusade to starve yourself is going to earn you points with the world.

Your head is stuck in the sand and you aren't looking around you! What part of the world's attention are trying to get ahold of? The people here are as diluted, lazy, and insane as you. They aren't going to help you get your freedoms.

Most of the other countries are dealing with their own issues. There IS only ONE way to get our rights back. It won't be by appealing to the world. It will require YOU ACTUALLY DECIDING for YOURSELF how much freedom means to you.

The only reason why you want to do this in a "peaceful" way is because you all are lazy and cowards and have unknowingly submitted yourself to the tyranny of your government.

LET ME IMPLANT THIS THOUGHT INTO YOUR HEAD:

For those who will be starving themselves in Washington DC to prove their point and "raise awareness" to their selfish cause (considering).... PICTURE THAT BABY whose rib cage is CLEARLY VISIBLE through his thin skin because his momma can't produce anymore breast milk to feed him today, or tomorrow bc she hasn't eaten in a week.

Abuse what you DO have for your advantage and you WILL lose it because of your arrogance.

This country is SCREWED up in how we think... completely

Don't like your rights being taken away??? Hit 'THEM' where it hurts!! don't flaunt what you COULD have but are giving up to ppl who don't even have the chance to have it.

*quit paying taxes!!

*organize strikes!!

*walk instead of driving!!

*form communities and become self sufficient in those communities!!

*rebel against civil and federal laws that impose on the way you want to live your life.

BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS RIGHT AND GOOD.... don't represent our country to the world that is dealing with its own mess as a bunch of ingrates bc NOT ALL of us are!


"omg!! we will be put in jail." DUH!! If you WANT freedom you WILL have to ACTUALLY WORK for it!

Please.... don't flaunt our blessings by denying yourself of them when there are ppl all over this world who would gratefully trade places with you just for a bite to fill their bloated belly.


EDITED TO ADD: Quit saying ghandi used this approach in the way that you all are. It is a DISGRACE to everything he actually did do.

This IS NOT something ghandi did!! not once, not ever!!!



[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


lol wow you know what I totally retract my statement earlier about you being insightful, well informed.. "The only reason why you want to do this in a "peaceful" way is because you all are lazy and cowards and have unknowingly submitted yourself to the tyranny of your government." As quoted directly from your post. Are you kidding me? Like I told your buddy Scorched Earth, READ THE ART OF WAR. Just because people want to do it in a peaceful way doesn't mean they are cowards at all quite the opposite.

"Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." -Sun Tzu

"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy." -Sun Tzu

I could go all day with these. It has NOTHING to do with being cowards like you said. Some people just like to use their heads



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


First of all, quit with the insults, this isn't third grade. Second, nobody appointed you the grand decider of what other people should do with their lives anyways. You seem to want to claim some moral high ground here, but then you advocate breaking the law and non-peaceful revolution.

Step back and look at what you're suggesting. When you break it down to the basics, you're saying that unless we break all kinds of laws and get thrown in jail, we don't have the right to be free. That's the most ridiculous, irresponsible suggestion I've read on here in awhile.

Honestly, it takes more of a coward to resort to violence than it does to try every peaceful means first. Anyone with a drop of wisdom could have told you that. Our founding fathers understood that. It's why they gave us the right to use so many peaceful means to make a difference - Press, Speach, Petition, and Assembly. Notice those are all from the FIRST amendment, and the right to bare arms comes in the SECOND. It's because they believed we should use peaceful means to make changes whenever possible.

You are the one who has grossly misinterpreted their rights. There is no amendment that gives you the right to break laws you don't like. What we have, Constitutionally, are several ways to try and get those laws changed. We have ways to challenge the legitimacy of a law besides just randomly breaking them like a criminal. What you are advocating is borderline anarchy, which is absolutely NOT the spirit of the Constitution.

You seem to have a lot of growing up to do. The world isn't a Star Wars movie, it's not about blowing up the Evil Empire. In the real world, there are legitimate ways to address things and there are still peaceful ways to make a difference. It is not a mature belief to think that intentionally breaking laws and getting thrown in jail is a justifiable way to express your opinion or draw attention to your cause. Bottom line: Criminal behavior is not how well-raised adults deal with things.

Yes, when all other measures fail, it is the right and the duty of the people to rise up and forcibly overthrow a tyrannical government. WHEN ALL OTHER MEASURES FAIL, but not until then. Never until then. We have not reached that stage.

Appealing to the world for help? No, it's appealing to fellow Americans whose eyes are still closed. The only thing the rest of the world has to do with it, is we're showing them that we are trying to change things. Other than that, the "world" has nothing to do with it.

Oh, and for all your complaining about starving people in other parts of the world, I doubt you've been much help to them either so don't give me that. For every good thing you may have done (but probably haven't) to help them out, you've probably done a hundred in your life that support the world's status quo. For starters, you blatantly oppose methods of peacefully changing it.

Nobody's taking food for granted here. You have wildly misinterpreted the point of a hunger strike. I don't know if you read something wrong, or maybe you just aren't wise enough yet (I gather from the manners in your posts that you are rather young, no offense,) but just because its a hunger strike does not mean people are protesting being hungry. You seem to think that's the case, with all your ranting about starving people in other countries.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with that, the rest of the world can't be the point of every protest and every cause. Somebody has to worry about what's going on here at home, since people like you are only concerned with screaming at people on the Internet for actually doing something to alert fellow American people to the problems that are occurring in this country.

If you understand the intention and the idea behind the hunger strike, you would see that you have no reason - none at all - to be so adamantly against this thing. If you don't understand, despite having it spelled out to you several times now, then you are discussing a topic that is far and above you - and you're making yourself look bad.

I'll finish this post with a direct response to the deepest display you've made yet of your ignorance of the Constitution and our rights:



Unless you are planning on supporting this starvation crap by participating, you really have NO RIGHT to argue in favor.


You make comments like that... You have the nerve to make a comment like that... and then try and go on and explain our rights to us? You clearly have no idea what rights we do and don't have, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop pretending you have found some understanding of the Constitution that is superior to ours. Because obviously you have, well... not.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 

"A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit." -- Thomas Jefferson
I just had to give you a star for your post...

"Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you." -- Thomas Jefferson

You summed it up just as good as Ben Franklin did once before:
"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn."

The whole point justamomma keeps missing is that WTP is creating an awareness in the public that's been too-long blinded by government lies & distracted by MSM. The whole problem started between the government & the banks as far back as the lead-up to the Civil War. It takes time to root out corruption spread so deep & wide in the government & WTP is cutting the root of corruption one step at a time: The first step is to bring the awareness to widespread public attention.

A surgeon will take x-rays & other diagnostic tests so he can learn the extent of a problem before he cuts open a person...WTP is working on getting to learn the full scope of the problem: They've "tested" the problem with Petitions, protests & even confronting the Judicial system up front. They've seen the problem & now they're bringing awareness to the general public...Just as one doctor may consult with another.

We've yet to reach the point where surgery is necessary...But the 2nd Amendment is the scalpel & it's just a bit premature for surgery yet.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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Yes, I have the nerve. Because this will be done by ppl who will and are saying "we are americans representing americans and american priciples." That is why I care so much and that is why I feel that I not only have the right to say something, but the responsibility. If this is done citing you are individuals who are blah blah, then I would not feel it was my right or place to oppose this.


Here's the thing. At first I was thinking to myself "aww.. well, at least they WANT to TRY and make a difference" which I still think *some* of you do (while it seems others are simply looking to feed their own cause). This I will give you credit for... the *desire* is more than most ppl have.

Kudos! Way to go!

But if you aren't taking the steps in your personal life bc of fear, feeling defeated, or whatever the reason, than how do you feel that others are going to do it just because you are starving yourself in washington dc?

I am all for making changes to get control over the government, but I am also well aware that it starts at home *first.*

Ok... so, lets say that you are successful and now millions of eyes around the world are on you. What is your message? What are you going to say?

Our gov't is blatantly ignoring us and we are supposed to be in control of them? Do you not think the world can obviously see this already, especially considering the fact that the govt's nose is already up their arses too?

You have to at least have already started being an example in seperating yourself from the government. Lead by example or your message will fall flat.

YES!! that means taking risks such as being jailed. That's why nothing is being done or ever WILL be done. People are too busy trying to gather their "armies" first so that hopefully (and I *DO* understand this desire whether you believe me or not) it can be done w/ as little pain as possible to their individual persons.

The reality is though that until more ppl quit waiting and quit appealing to everyone else before taking action and start implementing real independence from their gov't in their personal life despite the "costs" that may ensue thereby being able to lead by example and having the PERSONAL EXPERIENCE to show when they do go to draw awareness to the cause... it will all fall on deaf ears.

My hope would be for some miracle to happen and this to work... you all starving yourselves and real change coming about in that, but my eyes are open and I can't lie that this isn't going to work.

Even some of you supporting it agree that it won't work.

So why waste more valuable time on false hope and start making changes in our lives that YES will cause "heat" from the gov't in our lives, but at least will be the REAL right step in making a change to free ourselves of their control.

And FYI Being thrown in jail for making a choice in your personal life that you deem fit that they disagreed with does not mean they have control over you... it just means for the time being they are trying to intimidate you into believing they have the control. What does your freedom mean to you and at what are you willing to pay for to ensure freedom? Willingly starving yourself on the lawn of Washington DC shows not much is willing to be laid down since that is an act you ARE free to do.

Find the area in your life that the gov't is imposing itself on and cut them out... THAT is how you assert your right as an individual and lead others THROUGH example.

YOu always have the control of your life. You just don't know it. I support your individual rights to go starve yourself for your cause as long as you are making it known that you are doing this for yourself and not using the name "american" that all the rest of us fall under.

Meanwhile, those of us who understand the reasons why this is wrong (despite the intentions that I do believe are good, just misguided) will continue to try and educate others on what it will take to really make the difference... as well as continuing to implement those things into our lives, therefore bearing the greater burden for what you are trying to gain the easy way.

I don't care what your opinion is of me. I am not here to say things in the way *you* think I should say them. I am here to tell you, not what *I* see as truth (bc honestly, I'd be out there starving myself for a few days too if it really *was* that simple), but what has been PROVEN to be the truth time and again.

I only make the plea, when the attention has been gained for this behaviour, do not represent us as a collective by citing you are doing this as Americans for America. There was no vote cast to see if the majority of us agreed that this was acceptable behaviour to represent us. Do it honestly, as individuals. I have sent the same above statement to the website that was linked.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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You guys are so cute when you fight like this !!!

back in my lurker days I would laugh and laugh

sometimes I considered joining right then and there JUST to come tell you all how CUTE you all are when you fight like this!

and wooot we even got an off topic removal

if I could flag this thread again I would hawt dawwwg!!


on a serious note:

I dont know if this hunger strike will make any objective changes. I am sure they wish for that but are probably more realistic than some of you are giving them credit for.

we all dont think the same way, and maybe what these people are doing doesn't touch or move some of you in any way, but it does others.

and you can't reason that away with logic or any other mental masturbation

this is the beautiful thing about passive resistance, there is no way to fight it if enough people do it, no matter how angry that makes you

without becoming the very thing you are accused of in front of the world

peace

Edit: rephrase

[edit on 21/8/2008 by _Heretic]



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Unless you are planning on supporting this starvation crap by participating, you really have NO RIGHT to argue in favor. NOw....

I hadn't planned on replying but I changed my mind. You ppl are idiots. LOOK AROUND YOU MAN!!! We STILL have it good compared to MOST other places around the world. MOST of us ARE NOT starving or living in the conditions that ppl in 3rd world countries are having to live in.

You're kidding right?
Are you not aware of all the people who have lost their jobs recently????
Or all those who have lost their homes????
Or all those who must decide whether to get medical care or feed their children????

Where do you think all those people who lost their houses to forclosure are now living? luxury apartments????


BUT OMG!!! Look world, we are losing our rights and the way we are going to handle it is by starving ourselves! GIVE ME A BREAK. You all make me sick to my stomach. You use what you have been given IRRESPONSIBLY and you deserve nothing less but to lose your freedoms.

So do you instead suggest armed revolution as a first try to restore our rights???? Because if you are right and all these protests are not going to change anything, that is the only thing that is left.
Your idea of not paying taxes is unrealistic in that anyone who doesn't will be prosecuted. Now since you believe not paying taxes is one of the "right ways" to change things, can I assume you do not pay taxes??? and if not, what have been your interactions with the government about it???


There are momma's across the world who are watching their babies starve to death before their eyes.

And it's happening right here in the US also.



Freedom comes with responsibility. Our losing our rights has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the world and starving yourself for attention is irresponsible and cowardly.... not at all honorable.

ya just don't get it.....


You ppl are STILL blessed. IF you want your rights to live your life as you choose, then flucking TAKE THEM.... but don't think your self proclaimed righteous crusade to starve yourself is going to earn you points with the world.

In other words you are suggesting armed revolution. My thought is that, at this time, that may be a slight over reaction. That's like cutting your leg off because you have a hang nail on your big toe.



The only reason why you want to do this in a "peaceful" way is because you all are lazy and cowards and have unknowingly submitted yourself to the tyranny of your government.

So since you are not lazy or a coward, what are YOU doing to change things???? Be specific please






Don't like your rights being taken away??? Hit 'THEM' where it hurts!! don't flaunt what you COULD have but are giving up to ppl who don't even have the chance to have it.

*quit paying taxes!!

So obviously you don't pay your taxes....has the government jailed you and seized your property yet or it still in court????


*organize strikes!!

How's it going so far??? How many strikes have you organized and how can we sign up?


*walk instead of driving!!

MASSIVELY unrealistic for most people in the US


*rebel against civil and federal laws that impose on the way you want to live your life.

Please explain in detail how you do this in your daily life.


Thank you for your responses.



posted on Aug, 21 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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I have decided to "open my mind" here and draw out the points of this that I see as blatantly wrong. I am open to being shown HOW this is okay using the documents that we were given in their original forms by our forefathers.

If we are going to discuss this though, lets cite WHY they are doing this, what they are doing, and who they are doing this for. I don't see anything about the job problem on their website..


www.wethepeoplefoundation.org...



They began their mass hunger strike to draw worldwide attention to the fact that the Government of the United States of America has not only been flagrantly violating its own Constitution, it now refuses to respond or even acknowledge the People's Petitions for Redress of these Grievances despite the fact the Constitution requires the Government to do so:



1. Weren't we told by the founding fathers that it was OUR right to overthrow the governement and so wouldn't we just be bringing attention to the fact that we haven't even attempted in our own lives (well, I am betting most haven't) to overthrow our gov't? I mean, if we comply with paying federal taxes, then we are just at much fault for anything our gov't has done, are we not?

2. Is this the best time to be doing such a thing? Things are bad considering the Iran/Israel conflict; the Georgia/Russia conflict; Iraq; Africa is enduring MAJOR hardships that involve MORE than loss of rights and control over their govt's.

Just seems very irresponsible timing to be drawing attention this way.



1. The Iraq invasion in violation of the war powers clauses.


ARe you personally funding it by paying your taxes? What sacrifices have you made to make SURE you are not funding it?


2. The Federal Reserve System’s violation of the money clauses.


What is concern is this of the worlds?


3. The USA Patriot Act’s violation of the privacy clauses.


Compared to those we will be trying to gain the attention of, isn't this a bit ridiculous? Our freedoms may be dwindling but we only have ourselves to blame for this. You honestly are telling me that ppl who have less rights than we do at the moment aren't going to laugh at complaint that we are bringing on a world stage?



4. The direct taxes on labor in violation of the tax clauses.


How much is it really worth to YOU to get rid of this, bc if you wanted to, you could. Trust me
To appeal to the world about it when it is in your own power to abolish is a joke. (just telling the truth... not as I see it, but as it is.)


5. The gun control laws in violation of the Second Amendment.


I'll state this out as clear as possible. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU ARE TOLD to arm yourself in any way possible that you see fit. If they come after you for doing so, at the very least you will be armed to try and defend yourself.

Other countries that you are appealing have laws against personally owning a gun, so what do they care?



6. The failure to enforce immigration laws in violation of the
“faithfully execute clause.”


Again, open to being told why this is an issue that we should be informing the WORLD on as though they should care.


7. The construction of a "North American Union" without constitutional authority.


Blatantly a violation of our constitution... now educate me here... Ireland opposed theirs, did they not? Was that successful bc I had read it was. They never complained to us did they? Ireland actually has a great history btw of how to handle gov't that become oppressive.. just another example I thought I'd throw in.



Until recent times, the founding principles of America---limited government, due process of law, respect for private property, personal responsibility and self-reliance---were the defining attributes of the American culture and way of life.

Now, however, with almost weekly escalations of government control over their lives, threats to the lives of innocent men, women, and children in foreign lands, the imposition of a national police/surveillance state and a politicized judicial system which has become incapable of Justice, Americans finally appear willing to say "No! Enough is enough! You have gone too far for decent Americans to any longer tolerate these acts of despotism. We hereby claim and exercise our Right to hold you -- the Government -- accountable to the Constitution."


This shows that there is a misunderstanding in our history and our constituion. This has not been just in recent times. This started back when the North won the rights to impose on the rights of Southern landowners... civil war. Since then, it has been a steady decline to get us to the point we are at now... we didn't just *poof* wake up after 9/11 and have all our rights taken away. We have been conditioned to believe that we are under their control for longer than any of us can remember.

Believing that your only attempt to rid them of our lives is by liquid dieting in Washington DC is showing that you still don't understand.... YOU HAVE YOUR RIGHTS..... you just have to TAKE them.

But, I will open up here and try to see this from your point of view. I am not insulting you, I am asking how you explain that this is a responsible use of your freedoms... to do something you are already free to do (i.e. starve yourself in Washington DC), with the intent of announcing this all to the world, without having exercised the things that ARE in your control to rid the gov't of your life.

I find it hypocritical. I have laid aside the insults though. Prove to me its not, please. If ppl really care, then I am expecting some good solid education based on American principles since I AM making the attempt to understand this.


(And saying bc the constitution gives me that right only says one of two things:

1. that, yes, you do have the right to make a fool of yourself. I could easily do the same thing to gain awareness from the world to the fact that I don't like paying taxes for my land... doesn't make it responsible, wise, and/or their problem.

and 2. that you are not very smart. You are complaining in this manner that you are losing your rights but using the "we have a right to do it if we want" arguement is laughable. If you want to *keep* that right, then you have to use it responsibly)

this is a responsible use of our rights bc....



[edit on 21-8-2008 by justamomma]



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