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Simply put: Skeptics, I know it's hard...

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posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by thrashee
reply to post by Griff
 


Then you must answer your own question: how did they plant the bombs with all those dogs sniffing about?


www.libertyforlife.com...

"Two weeks before 9/11 the head of security for the Twin Towers, Marvin Bush, brother of the President, shut down power and security to the Twin Towers and rewired the building for "Ethernet". The week before 9/11 he removed all bomb sniffer dogs. "



Z




posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by thrashee
reply to post by IvanZana
 


Your post may have been amusing if it was logically and syntactically coherent enough to follow. Unfortunately it was neither.


"logic" is when a solid steel structure/s (3) turn to DUST due to, wait for it.................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................... air-o-plane(view) fuel(you)?



Z



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow

Originally posted by thrashee
reply to post by IvanZana
 


Your post may have been amusing if it was logically and syntactically coherent enough to follow. Unfortunately it was neither.


"logic" is when a solid steel structure/s (3) turn to DUST due to, wait for it.................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................... air-o-plane(view) fuel(you)?



Z


I'm sorry, is this the same guy who just accused me of merely trying to vent by posting negative remarks?

Interesting.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by JimBeam
 


Okay, read carefully as I type carefully. I do not believe in at least 95% of the evidence that has been presented thus far by the truth movement. Not CD, not holograms, not CGI, Mass hypnotism nor any of that crap. I see planes hitting the buildings hard and fast. I see building collapse after huge structural damage, gravity and time have worked on those buildings. I see debris that hit other buildings including huge chuncks of damage to WTC 7. I can see how all three building could and did indeed fall.

What I did say is IF WTC 7 debris was found much farther away than the building was tall, then there might be some evidence for CD. The church was more than twice as far from WTC 7 as its hight. To my knowledge there was no debris from WTC 7 anywhere near where the church had been flattened by one of the towers. That tower was not directly across the street but you could almost throw a rock and hit the church if you stood out the main enterance to the tower on that side.

Having positive ID of all 19 hijackers within 24 hours seems overly efficient for our government so I have a little skepticism there, but I do not doubt the ability of it being done nor do I doubt the US reaction of trying to deal with the situation by waiting for the hijacker's demands as they fly to Cuba or somewhere per all previous hijackings that have happened. I can therefore believe the government didn't think they would use the planes as weapons.

After the third impact I do think that fighters would have been scrambled to shoot down any non-reponding plane and may have been what happen in Shanksville. I also don't think the gov't will confess to a shoot down since the "Let's Roll" story sounded so good. Due to the heroic efforts of Americans not going down without a fight angle that it presented. Whether the plane aborted its mission by performing a deliberate nosedive or was shot down is up for debate.

Lots of mis-reported details happened that day such as a Cincinnati news station claiming Flight 93 (Shanksville plane) had landed in Cleveland, OH and was on the ground when it went down in PA. A Dayton, OH station reported a fifth plane impact near the VA Hospital in Dayton...which was in reality a tire fire near the VA Hospital.

One fact that I do know, was that four fighters based at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base went supersonic after they took off. Those fighters covered a leg of fighter escort of Air Force One. So yes, the USAF could have scrambled and shot down Flight 93. I know those four fighters were not the ones that did it after going supersonic because that was sometime between 2:30 and 3:00pm EST. However one or two could have had a mission earlier that morning. And that there were many military flights during the airspace shutdown following 9/11 as I saw a small number of them flying over during that time.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


I'm really not following your logic whatsoever here.

I only commented on WTC 7. I was just correcting you.

You said WTC 7 flattened the church, it DID NOT. You said it didn't fall into its own footprint, IT DID(WTC 7's "collapse" was better than most demo companies could pull off).

If you hate facts and love living in fantasy world I suggest you buy a lifetime membership into Disneyworld.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by JimBeam
 


I have said "IF" IF" IF......how many times to I have to stress the word IF....If does not mean IS, WAS, DID or ABSOLUTELY....GEEZ.


So in context: IF WTC 7 debris was found that far away then there might be a case for explosive forces. Clear enough?

And as far as falling cleanly in its own footprint, not quite. Sections struck other buildings next to WTC 7.

And as a side note: I liked the Haunted Mansion ride better than Space Mountain for the visual effects in the mirrors despite having been stuck at the howling dog for 20 minutes the first time I went to Disney World. That and one of my cousins was a ride attendant. But that was 20 years ago when a Great Uncle was part of management.


[edit on 20-8-2008 by Ahabstar]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow

Originally posted by thrashee
reply to post by Griff
 


Then you must answer your own question: how did they plant the bombs with all those dogs sniffing about?


www.libertyforlife.com...

"Two weeks before 9/11 the head of security for the Twin Towers, Marvin Bush, brother of the President, shut down power and security to the Twin Towers and rewired the building for "Ethernet". The week before 9/11 he removed all bomb sniffer dogs. "



Z


Complete BULLSH*T. Marvin Bush was NEVER in charge of security of the World Trade Center...EVER. A company that he was on the board of directors for had done some security system work at the tower, however Marvin Bush left the board of Securacom in JUNE 2000. Long before his brother became President.

In addition, the buildings were never powered down. This is another long living load of BS. Scott Forbes first claimed the buildings were powered down. However, when pressed he admitted that parts of the THREE FLOORS his company occupied in one tower were powered down for electrical work to be done. THREE FLOORS.

God, the stupidity that still exists on here kills me at times.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


Great! All the "fantasy" believers are going to end up there. We need real people to actually LEAD.

I told you 7 fell into Vesey st. and hit the Verizon building(I think). The damage was significant, but not enough to put the building down by any means.

We are truly getting to a point where people NEED to believe in LIES in order to survive.

Been there, done that. I hate liars and cowards. Justice is coming.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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30 West Broadway, was torn down in 2006 due to the damage it suffered when WTC 7 collapsed.

The only reason it took that long was trying to figure out what the insurance was going to pay for THAT building.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by JimBeam
 



Okay rather than let this go on until I have to worry about the JimBeam Militia stomping out whatever it feels is wrong or whatever, let me state again. I know WTC 7 did not hit the church. I knew that when I posted it in the original post where you corrected me and when I thanked you for making a misdirected pronoun made it seem I meant WTC 7 and neglected to mention WTC 2 as being the church squasher.

I laughed about my careless error and said that if debris from that far away hit the church then it might be a case for explosive forces.

As for CD in WTC 7, I am far more inclined to believe that the vibrations of two huge buildings collapsing nearby futher weakened a structure that was heavily damaged by debris and fire than CD in a 47 story building still in use wired to blow in a few hours. CD planing and wiring takes a long, long time to do. To do it in a few hours and not botch it would be cusp of fantasy to me.

So I offer a truce.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Ahabstar]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 




"Marvin P. Bush, the president's younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Bush also served.
According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."
The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday [September 11]. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed.
On the weekend of 9/8, 9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up... "Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower." "

Cute video, news how it should be


Now why should I believe YOU over the CEO??

Z



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:49 PM
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Actually anyone interested, just google Marvin Bush wtc and you will be surprised what comes up...

Here's a little ditty that I never heard of until just then, thankyou swmpfox for putting me onto this track


www.apfn.net...

"WASHINGTON, At around 9 PM on September 29, Fairfax County, Virginia police responded to a 911 call describing an accident. However, they soon discovered they were not dealing with a routine emergency but the mysterious death of an employee of the 47-year old brother of President George W. Bush, venture capitalist Marvin Bush.

Sixty-two year old Bertha Champagne, described as a long time "baby sitter" for Marvin and Margaret Bush's two children, son Walker, 13, and daughter Marshall, 17, was found crushed to death by her own vehicle in a driveway in front of the Bush family home in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Champagne reportedly lived at the Bush family home. "

I wonder what information this woman had... hmmm...

Z



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by thrashee
 


Negative question no.

LOGICAL question yes.

Again I ask you, because you are standing for the "official version", how do 3 steel/concrete structures turn into dust from air fuel huh? I mean you are the logical mans thinker right?



Z



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow
 


I would be more than happy to engage your question, but first I must ask that you refrain from such a sarcastic and venomous tone. I'm here to share ideas and opinions, and comments like this can only make me think that you either need a serious dive into Lake You or you're merely trying to derail the thread.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:34 PM
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Im sorry...where was Mr McDaniel in that video?

Quite simply, the dumbest video I have ever had the misfortune to watch. But then seeing that it came from Berkeley did not surprise me. Since you insist on believing the BS in that video....




Most of the victims of the September 11 attack seemed tragically random -- they were just going to work. Not John O'Neill. Until last August, he'd been the FBI's top expert on Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, a lead investigator of the USS Cole and African embassy bombings. Leaving the Bureau in frustration, he'd taken a job he thought of as retirement: World Trade Center security chief.


nymag.com...




He’d left his job with the FBI just the day before (see August 22, 2001). His friend Jerome Hauer, who is the former head of New York’s Office of Emergency Management, had found him the job at the World Trade Center. Developer Larry Silverstein, who recently took over the lease of the WTC (see July 24, 2001), had been highly impressed with O’Neill but insisted he start in the post no later than the first week of September, when his firm Silverstein Properties is set to assume control of the buildings. O’Neill had agreed to this. [W


www.historycommons.org...

So it appears that John O'Neill was the Chief of Security at the WTC complex.

Then there is the bomb dog issue....




Lim, a Port Authority K-9 officer, was in the South Tower when American Flight 11 slammed into the North Tower. Leaving his canine partner Sirius behind, he ran up to the North Tower's 44th floor before heading down after the second collision. He was on the fourth floor with six firefighters escorting an elderly woman when the building fell.


www.cnn.com...




am a Police Officer in the employ of the Port Authority of NY & NJ. I have been such for the greater part of the last 23 years. On Sept. 11th, 2001, our Police Department suffered the greatest single day loss in Law Enforcement history @ the World Trade Center. 37 Officers from every rank (Superintendent to Police Officer) as well as my partner, explosive detector K-9 Sirius were killed in the attack. Many would ask what the PAPD was doing in the World Trade Center. A little known fact was that we were always there. Since the Port Authority owned the buildings, we (the Police) were responsible for the public safety therein...


www.9-11commission.gov...

OOPS...looks like the explosive sniffing dogs that were actually assigned to the Towers, were there that day. The "extra" ones brought in to help during the period of "heightened" security were gone.

Ah yes, the power down...




On the weekend of 9/8,9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36hrs from floor 50 up. I am aware of this situation since I work in IT and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. The reason given by the WTC for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded ... Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower.


Its funny that you post almost verbatim from here...

www.serendipity.li...

Forbes,would be Mr Scott Forbes. So, what else has he had to say....




GW: You've previously stated that on the weekend of September 8 and 9, 2001, there was a "power down" condition in world trade center Tower 2, the South Tower, and that this power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approximately 36 hours from floor 50 up. Do you know what time the power-down started?





SF: All systems were shutdown on Saturday morning and the power down condition was in effect from approximately 12 noon on Saturday September 8, 2001.





GW: When did it end?





SF: Approximately 2PM on Sunday 9/9


Wait...thats only 26 hours, not 36.......




GW: How do you know that there was no electricity from floor 50 up, if Fiduciary Trust was on much higher floors -- starting at the 90th floor?





SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...


Cant verify the power was off on the lower floors????????




GW: You've previously stated that you were aware of the power down since you worked in the IT department and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. How many other Fiduciary Trust folks were you working with? Can any of them verify your story?





SF: Many, many people worked on the power down, both from the IT department and from the business, revalidating systems when they were available again. Other people can validate my information. Some people do not remember the circumstances, some people will not revisit that time ... but others acknowledge the power down freely and can validate my information.


To date, NO ONE has validated his statements.

In addition to this, the observation deck in his tower was open for business prior to noon on Sunday. Would they really let tourists into an area of the building that was "powered down" I do not think so.

So, his original "the tower was powered down for 36 hours" became, "my floors were powered down for 26 hours" and NO ONE has verified his story.

No matter, because 26 hours isnt enough time to wire a three story building for demolition, let alone a 110 story building.

Back to Securacom....

www.sec.gov...

These are the SEC filings for Securacom. The World Trade Center is not listed as a source of revenue after 1998.

Marvin Bush left Securacom in 2000...



Marvin Bush was reelected annually to Securacom's board of directors from 1993 through 1999. His final reelection was on May 25, 1999, for July 1999 to June 2000. Throughout, he also served on the company's Audit Committee and Compensation Committee, and his stock holdings grew during the period. Directors had options to purchase 25,000 shares of stock annually. In 1996, Bush acquired 53,000 shares at 52 cents per share. Shares in the 1997 IPO sold at $8.50. Records since 2000 no longer list Bush as a shareholder.


So, no longer on the board and no longer a shareholder. So, DEFINITELY not in charge of WTC security on 9/11.

Then there is good ole Wirt Walker and him being a cousin of George and Marvin. One problem, he isnt. The original article saying he was was written by Margie Burns. However, she now says...




A former colleague of the head of the company, Wirt Dexter Walker III, suggested to me that Walker is a distant relative of the Bush family


www.margieburns.com...

Of course, looking at the family trees back to the 1700s, there is NOT a common ancestor (in other words, hes not related). However, if you DO go back to Noah and the Flood...THEN they are related....of course....we all would be.



Have you figured it out yet? Your video is nothing but electronic fertilizer. Not researched, not vetted, just more regurgitated crap from conspiracy sites.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


Well I think I have proved via 'google search' Brother Bush was involved in securtiy of the WTC, you can disagree all you want, that's all you are good for. Im content in what I know about 911 and how the Bush Admin was behind it.

To thrashee, your dodging of the "logical question" is fine by me, because there is a saying "silence speaks volumes", so don't bother replying.

If these two are the best the 'debunkers' 'they' have got, they don't have much.

Z



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
To thrashee, your dodging of the "logical question" is fine by me, because there is a saying "silence speaks volumes", so don't bother replying.

If these two are the best the 'debunkers' 'they' have got, they don't have much.

Z


That was hardly a dodge; I merely asked you to remain respectful and maintain a semblance of decorum--a task, regretfully, you seem incapable of performing.

Sometimes I think people who exhibit such anger are really just sad inside and want to allow their reason and logic loose, but they're just too afraid to let go of their beliefs. We are here for you, watchZEITGEIST, but only if you let us help you.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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Far from angry


Actually I'm in a great mindset!

Pity you derailed the thread (as usual), for your own self (ego).

Back to topic:
Steel + Concrete / air fuel = DUST



Z



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Far from angry


Actually I'm in a great mindset!

Pity you derailed the thread (as usual), for your own self (ego).

Back to topic:
Steel + Concrete / air fuel = DUST



Z


Sigh. I guess some people can only communicate by way of insults and petulancy. I'll keep you in my prayers, as low vibrations can only rise


Here's the problem with your equation--it's missing some important factors.

The towers didn't simply catch on fire, smolder, and then turn to dust, did they? The support beams were fractured by impact, the structure was weakened by fire, and over time, the buildings collapsed on themselves.

Maybe the drop of that much material down a LOT of stories had something to do with all that dust.

Or, let's flip it around to your side. Are you stating that rightly placed explosives would have turned the towers into dust?

[edit on 20-8-2008 by thrashee]



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