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Many think God's intervention can revive the dying

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posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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Many think God's intervention can revive the dying


www.examiner.com

HICAGO (Map, News) - When it comes to saving lives, God trumps doctors for many Americans. An eye-opening survey reveals widespread belief that divine intervention can revive dying patients. And, researchers said, doctors "need to be prepared to deal with families who are waiting for a miracle."

More than half of randomly surveyed adults - 57 percent - said God's intervention could save a family member even if physicians declared treatment would be futile. And nearly three-quarters said patients have a right to demand such treatment.

When asked to imagine their own relatives being gravely ill or injured, nearly 20 percent of doctors and other medical workers said God could reverse a hopeless outcome.

"Sensitivity to this belief will promote development of a trusting relationship" with patients and their families, according to researchers. That trust, they said, is needed to help doctors explain objective, overwhelming scientific evidence showing that continued treatment would be worthless.

(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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I found it particularly interesting to note that 20% of doctors and other medical workers believe in divine intervention.

Normally I'm a sceptic, but I have known people all my life who got well against the odds, and most of them attributed it to some higher power.

Still, if a doctor told me a loved one had no chance I'd probably believe him or her. On the other hand, if I was told they had a "slim chance" I just might pray.

I wonder what your experience has been.

www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Sestias


I found it particularly interesting to note that 20% of doctors and other medical workers believe in divine intervention.

Normally I'm a sceptic, but I have known people all my life who got well against the odds, and most of them attributed it to some higher power.


I know physicians who say they believe in divine intervention when they think a patient will fare better believing that but it is nothing more than good bedside manner. I also know some who have no qualms about looking a religious patient in the eyes and telling them they are delusional.

I think we all know people who beat the odds who attribute their recovery to imaginary beings and/or long dead saints, but it is noteworthy that we never see "divine intervention" in cases where the patient's condition can be readily and unmistakably observed such as the miraculous regrowth of severed limbs, the restoration of missing eyes, etc.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Lilitu]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by Sestias


I found it particularly interesting to note that 20% of doctors and other medical workers believe in divine intervention.

Normally I'm a sceptic, but I have known people all my life who got well against the odds, and most of them attributed it to some higher power.


I know physicians who say they believe in divine intervention when they think a patient will fare better believing that but it is nothing more than good bedside manner. I also know some who have no qualms about looking a religious patient in the eyes and telling them they are delusional.

I think we all know people who beat the odds who attribute their recovery to imaginary beings and/or long dead saints, but it is noteworthy that we never see "divine intervention" in cases where the patient's condition can be readily and unmistakably observed such as the miraculous regrowth of severed limbs, the restoration of missing eyes, etc.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Lilitu]

It is very odd that I have not heard of missing limbs, organs, etc, regrowing. But then again, it never occured to me to search for that. (I wonder why?)

At any rate, I know personally of two miraculous recoveries. A friend of mine was painting a church and was high up on a scaffolding. It collapsed, and he fell like 30 or 40 feet onto concrete. The doctors said that his brain injuries were so severe there was only about a 3% chance he would even live through the night. They also said that, even if he DID live, he would be a vegetable the rest of his life. He has fully recovered, and is just a little crazy. Oh, wait. He was crazy before the accident!


Years ago, my sister was experiencing headaches, blurred vision, all kinds of bad things like that. She went in and her doctor ordered either I CAT scan or an MRI (I forget). The thing showed a very large brain tumor. To make a long story short, some church elders came to the hospital and annointed her with oil, prayed for her, layed on hands, the whole 9 yards. (I don't think she even belonged to that church). They did another scan a few days later, and there was no tumor. Her neurosurgeon had no explanation for it. She still has the Cat scan/MRI pics.

Lastly, there have been many, many recorded instances of people coming back from the dead. And by that, I do not mean resuscitated either.

But your original point does remain interesting. I will have to research that exact question.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 11:52 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Prayer is just as effective as placebo. What's that tell you?

I don't think it's surprising that people believe the good lord can save their life. People believe all kinds of crazy nonsense. Thankfully for them, believing is enough - it doesn't have to be true in order for it to work.

The power of suggestion is extremely under-appreciated.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by sir_chancealot
 


Talking about coming back from the dead, I found this article particularly interesting.

news.aol.com...

I found what an official at the hospital said quite relevant to what is being discussed here also.



"We don't know how to explain this, so when we don't know how to explain things in the medical world we call it a miracle, and this is probably what happened," hospital deputy director Moshe Daniel said.


Now I realize this poor child is not likely to live very long at all considering the general circumstances but to have been considered dead for that long and then to be found to have life certainly does seem amazing. I know I've heard similar stories of people being declared dead with no more resusitating efforts only to somehow found to still be alive.

Many people believe there is a scientific basis behind this fact but just one that current medicine cannot yet understand. Even if that's true, it's nice to know that just as there are mystery illnesses and diseases that we can't diagnose or cure, there are also amazingly positive mysteries in the world of science and medicine like the ability to heal or recover from things we were never expected to be able to, including, in some cases, death itself.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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Dr. House has it right on this one.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:26 AM
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A miracle simply signifies a lack of understanding on part of the recipient. That is all. If you think it happened miraculously, then you don't know how it was done - so don't jump to ridiculous conclusions, like God, when you've just shown you don't have a bally clue how the [SNIP] it happened.

If that isn't the height of ignorance, I don't know what is.


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 20-8-2008 by Gemwolf]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:38 AM
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Just because "many" people have this belief, doesn't make it any less ridiculous. It's very troubling to see such a chunk of Americans buying into this kind of blind religious belief and i do believe this is very much an American thing as of late. All such a belief does, is allow people to settle for ignorance. Why would anyone want to settle for "god did it"?

Would you really want a doctor taking care of you who just lets god do his thing? Not me! I want MY doctor attributing my physical wellbeing to something d@mn well founded in science! If I suddenly felt better and my doc started praising god, I'd be outta there so fast it'd knock the bible right out of his hands



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by Sestias
I found it particularly interesting to note that 20% of doctors and other medical workers believe in divine intervention.


To be fair, the survey asked if "God could reverse a hopeless outcome", not if they believed it would happen. I personally believe God is omnipotent and 'could' save all dying patients' lives, but it won't happen because death is a natural part of the life cycle and there has to be room on the planet for a new generation.

Why would God intentionally disrupt the natural cycle that he/she created?



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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Well, you know, the late great P.T. Barnum did say:

"There's a sucker born every minute!"

I think that's the right quote anyway...point being that people can believe whatever they want, but that doesn't make it so!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by trek315

Many people believe there is a scientific basis behind this fact but just one that current medicine cannot yet understand. Even if that's true, it's nice to know that just as there are mystery illnesses and diseases that we can't diagnose or cure, there are also amazingly positive mysteries in the world of science and medicine like the ability to heal or recover from things we were never expected to be able to, including, in some cases, death itself.


A few years ago I read an article in the Cincinnati papers about a dead person who came back to life. Apparently the corpse was laid out in a funeral home when the night watchman heard him sneeze. I personally find that very hard to believe, but it was in a mainstream newspaper.

But to return to your quote, above, I like to consider the fact that we humans don't know everything. In a few hundred years our descendants will look back on us as very ignorant and unenlightened. "Miracle cures" may have a logical explanation that just hasn't been discovered yet. If they do exist, I'd like to know why some people experience them and others don't.

I try to keep an open mind.




[edit on 19-8-2008 by Sestias]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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How sad the world must be to those who don't believe. There's a definite comfort and happiness that goes along with knowing that I am the child of a God who has counted every hair on my head and knew me before I was born. There's also a definite level of acceptance of whatever may come, be it death of my Earthly body or be it healed by God so that I can be on Earth another day, all because I know that when the time truly does come I will not just fizzle out here on Earth and cease being... I will continue on to something far greater and more glorious than anything this little round ball of rock and water spinning in the ether has to offer.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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well back in 2001 i had respiratory failure and my co2 level was 2400, my left lung collapsed, my temperature was over 104, my heart rate was over 130 for weeks and i weighed 54 lbs; yet i felt no pain and i only remember darkness, i didnt have enough oxygen to be alive yet here i am.. i think i was saved by more than doctor skills that day.

also i think my druggie, drunk aunt whom i lived with and whom most likely caused this was punished by god for it too with a sudden, very rare and painful lymphoma.

many life saving things have happened since, like moving out of houses days before they collapse and such..

i think its true and back then i was atheist so i doubted divinity even after; but i'm open to it now.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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I think something that should be mentioned here is the belief that God will save the dying and some fanatics foregoing all medical treatment because they know God will save them.

This has happened twice that I am aware of here in Oregon in recent months. Both victims were children and both sets of parents refused any medical care for their childrens illnesses and both children died as a result. Both sets of parents believed ONLY in Gods healing and no medical intervention.

If I correctly recall, one set of parents were brought up on criminal charges because of the age of the child and the other set of parents were not prosecuted because their child was of an age to make their own choice concerning medical care.

It's funny that neither set of parents feel remorse for the death of their children since they feel that God called them home. I call it negligence and abuse.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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I see somebody else has posted this same story. The difference is in our approaches to the subject. I try to keep an open mind, although I'm sceptical.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by ANoNyMiKE
 


Really?

I for one do not care what my doctor believes as long as he/she knows what they are doing. If my doctor wants to pray before surgery or even after I am fine with it as long as his/her hand is steady.

I have heard a lot of people say what you did but from my understanding there are at least half the doctors out there that are believers of some sort. Take them away and you might be stuck with a doctor that is less than adequate to do the procedure as well as one that is a believer.

Here it is this story says 55% believe.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Hope you do not need a doctor anytime soon if you want one that does not believe. Again I don’t care what my doctor believes as long as they know what they are doing. I am not going to them for spiritual guidance but more so medical assistance.

Raist



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by Sestias
 


I remember seeing your thread yesterday but did not have time to really read it or reply. I did not see it or I would have replied to it as your was posted first and you do seem a bit more open to real discussion than someone who has complete bias.

I thought they used to close or delete threads that started up after someone else posted them. I guess a lot of things are changing or moving too fast for that now though.


In regards to the OP though, I think prayer can be a positive thing. It gets the persons mind off of death or may help to at least and if one is dying or could die it seems better in my mind that they think more about living life or what is left than to be thinking negative thoughts about death. I personally think positive thinking can go a long way in helping the body and mind heal.

Raist



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 



I also know some who have no qualms about looking a religious patient in the eyes and telling them they are delusional.


They "have no qualms"?
Let's call it what it is: criminal lack of basic social graces, not to mention the lack of humility.
Just try telling one of them THEY are delusional if the think they're God.
I have; their faces are a spectacle really worth seeing.


Ad Astra
(just dropping by, no time - or burning desire - to log in)



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by Sestias
I found it particularly interesting to note that 20% of doctors and other medical workers believe in divine intervention.


One of my girlfriends from back in high school is an assistant in a nursing home. She was pretty much a die hard atheist until she took the job. After hearing account after account of near death experiences from her patients, she is an ardent believer in God and the afterlife. Although she and I still disagree as I am a Christian and she just believes in the generic concept of a supreme deity and afterlife, it was pretty interesting. I've known her for over ten years and she was pretty brutal in her opinions of an afterlife and God before that. Pretty cool.

Somewhat off topic but still something I always thought was interesting. It's fascinating to see that kind of change in someone you have known for so long and who was such a staunch atheist. If you tell her there is 'no God' now, she will engage you in discussion for hours. lol

EDIT TO ADD: I'm also surprised it is only 20%. That sounds like a shockingly low statistic.

[edit on 8/20/2008 by AshleyD]



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