Is it wrong to despise alcoholics?

reply to post by merky


Here, I'll finish it for you since fear played a part in your decision not to finish your note worthy post:

"an individual with an opinion formed through personal experience"

And you are...?

reply to post by capgrup


Too much of anything is no good for you and that includes alcohol. Raised by an abusive alcoholic made me truly hate alcoholics. Alcoholics are selfish, abusive, and never of sound mind. Alcoholics destroy families by driving drunk and destroy their own families with abuse that is usually a direct result of their over-consuming behavior. Alcoholics do not take care of themselves and don't care about their health, so how can they take care of anybody or anything else. Alcoholics only see one thing and everything else, no matter how important, will come after their drink. 75,000 people die each year from alcohol; 34,000 from cirrhosis and liver failure and another 40,000 from car acidents and or acidents involving alcohol... all this without counting how many innocent people/children are killed each year because of drunks that don't care about anyone but themselves. Alcoholics need to stop being so weak, check themselves in to rehab, and then apologize to all the family members they abused... emotionally and physically!

Being a bartender for 4 years in NYC, I know a lot of alcoholics and have a lot of alcoholic friends. They look for pity from people it's their form of getting attention. Alcohol is an excuse for them for anything they do wrong in their life. Most of them are too afraid to take on the personal issues they have in their lives. They have the choice the moment before they start drinking. It's when they start they lose control. The best thing is just not to foster this kind of behavior and tell them how you feel about it (I shouldn't talk because it was my job to serve them drinks). You should be there for them if you care about them, but also be stern and and don't give in to the pity.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by astralprogger]

OK, in true semi alcoholic style I haven't read all of the replies to this thread, but then on the other hand I'd like to give you the opinion of a drunk without being swayed by others responses.

I've been an on / off alcoholic for at least 9 years now.

I'm not going to go in to details here about how or why I became a drinker because, although it's popular for people these days to talk about the abuse they may have suffered as children & then play the blame game, I feel it's personal to me & may not make sense to others & I'd rather not get into it for fear of ridicule.

It's not a disease.

I could be wrong but I see it as a chemical addiction. It takes the edge off me & numbs the bad thoughts I can get towards others when I see them enjoying their easy lives.
Of course no ones life is easy & there are far, far worse off than me in this world but I’ am trying to be honest here.

I drink hard when I'm out & often drink at home alone.

When I'm out it's my way of coping with a social situation I feel I am not able to deal with.

It's strange, I know when I'm drinking how I will react to different situations, perhaps because I put my problems aside, but when sober I can snap & become unpredictable.

So far I've managed almost a year sober at one point due to a girlfriends help & my own will. I'm still addicted but maybe because deep down I know why I drink I can turn it off when I need to.

Maybe that’s the key. Because I now know why & when I need alcohol I can stay in control & not let it take over my life. (this, though is an illusion depending on your point of view.)

But, again, on the other hand when I was truly dependant on alcohol a few years ago I can liken it to the film Trainspotting where all you think about in between hits is where the next hit is coming form.

That’s the best way I can describe it. I didn't care about the health risks at the time. I got to a point where I wouldn't eat before drinking as it was the only way I could get drunk. It used to be an achievement to say "I can drink so much whiskey & still stand." Now I find it embarrassing to be able to drink so much without passing out.

I hope this has given a little insight into why people may become alcoholics. I'm sure everyone’s reasons are different, but like I said I think the key to beating it seems to be understanding why & when you will need a drink & if possible maybe trying to avoid those situations.

Please Read the Doctors Opinion from the big book of Alcholics Anoymous.

That should just about describe what we/I suffer from, (A Mental and Pyhsical illness)

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ FROM THE LINK BELOW,

www.aa.org...


Alcoholism effects all those around the sufferer

WE/I Have got first hand experince on that one.

So if you have been affected by someones elses drinking there is a support network for you aswell.

Its called Al Anon.

Please take the time to read that aswell.

www.al-anon.alateen.org...

Alcoholism is a disease.

en.wikipedia.org...

I would like to thank the person who started this topic, indoing so you have helped me and in turn hopefully, I may of helped someone else.

Which is really what this has all been about.

Thank you.

Well not to rain on anyones parade or anything, but this day and age I do consider myself an alcoholic.

My problem is more of a work related issue, ever since I been employed with my job my stress has been through the roof, lots of rough spots, alot of good, but mostly rough times...

My parents, both fullblown heavy drinkers seemed to be the answer for me, everyday after work i'd go straight to the booze cabinet, still do to this day, and the days off from work, well thats where things get out of hand...

Somehow I've managed to continue being punctual to work, never missing time, just the fact that I did drink a few drinks before work this morning is the reason I'm posting this... its a habit, a ritual and an addiction...

Realizing it is one thing, changing the groove is hesitant at this point... my uncle lost his home, his car, his wife to booze... I know I wont go that far I have a good will, but my habits are definitely far out there...

And thats all I got for today folks, catch ya on the next post...

reply to post by capgrup

maybe I can help you to understand some of what goes on, I have been there as the alcoholic, it was not always that way, my father was alcoholic and I never really understood why until I got married had 2 kids and was in business for my self, after 911 the economy took a turn for the worse and I lost my bussiness which I had invested over 100k cash. I was already drinking heavily and it just got worse, you feel as if you are a failure to yourself and your family, and a deep depression sets in and all you want to do is forget, somehow you become consumed with the need to drink and isolate and alienate yourself from all family and friends because you basically feel worthless and unworthy of anyone's love. I knew what I was doing was wrong but you just become numb and nothing matters but that next drink, I had to finally hit bottom to know that I wanted to get back my life if not for me but for my kids, God gave me the strength to go cold turkey which I don't wish on anyone, it almost killed me, it's taken me almost 5 years to fully recover physically, this experiece has made me me a little more compassionate to alcoholics, I don't mean the obnoxious types but the ones who are hurting and want help, as the say "don't judge a person until you have walked in their shoes. What we need to do is pray and offer our help if it is wanted or needed. Sorry for the long winded advice I hope it helps you to understand a little of what goes on peoples lives, I am not saying it's proper behavior, it's just one of the ways some individuals choose to cope with life, others go to church and atill there are many diferrent ways that people deal with lifes strife. Wish you and others the best of luck coping with these issues. Recovering alcoholic.

hell, i'm a mild alcoholic. i haven't lost a job or spun out of control. i think that it is more to do with the person and how the alcohol effects that individual than the whole disease of "alcoholism". I'm drunk right now!!!!

i know, you think i am an idiot,

but i assure you ,
i am not

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by BlackOps719

 

The thing is man that sobriety is not the answer. See the term "dry drunk". My father is one. They stop drinking and still don't deal with the problems that lead them to drink. They still have the same problems. Only sober. Gotta deal with the personal issues first.
...

AA pamphlet P-15
Questions and Answers on Sponsorship
page 13
"Even if we have many dry years behind us, we can often benefit from asking an AA friend to be our sponsor.
We many have been feeling discontent or real emotional pain because we forgot that THE AA PROGRAM OFFERS A NEW WAY OF LIFE, NOT JUST FREEDOM FROM ALCOHOL. With a sponsor's help, we can use the program to the full, CHANGE OUR ATTITUDES and in the process come to enjoy our sobriety."

Even AA co-founder Bill Wilson never stopped being an addict.
He just quit drinking.
He did drugs, remained addicted to nicotine, and substituted the high of sex with newcomers for the high of drinking.

I meet my AA sponsees at NA meetings, because NA deals with addiction itself, rather than a narrow focus on only the frug of choice.

Like they day at NA meetings: Alcohol is a drug (period!)

Alcoholics are drug addicts.
Dry, they just move on to other addictions.

That abusive behavior cited by so many in this topic?
"Uproar" a social game many families play.
When the battles stop, they feel subconsciously 'something is wrong'.

Return to the intermittent/constant state of conflict is a return to normal.

reply to post by FremenBlueEyes


Holy Double Posts....I suck

[edit on 8/18/2008 by chapter29]

reply to post by FremenBlueEyes


As I am not myself; yet, I see 3 cans of Foster's right next to me...

Wow, I gotta tell ya - when your stomach turns warm and your thoughts are a little off...that my friend is a nice buzz.

Being Drunk is not that fun I agree...but the process of getting drunk is mighty fine. Maintain the buzz, and live another day to crack a lager...

"Moderation is masturbation" - STP

reply to post by chapter29


i like your stp quote. but, unfortunately, i would never crack a fosters. i am not from australia . i enjoy good beers, such as grolsch, or boulevard, a very fine kansas city microbrew. i see nothing wrong with drinking, as long as you can control yourself, but i also know that some people can not handle drinking.

i do not know if oyur post was sarcastic or not, nor do i care but i am sipping on some wild turkey right now, and it has a HUGE bite.

by the way. Manchester united kicks arsenals ASS!!! GO WAYNE ROONEY

[edit on C20082008-08-18T23:00:40-05:00u08America/Chicago8 by FremenBlueEyes]

reply to post by capgrup


capgrup. please u2u me. I understand your pain here. when i was young, i wrote a letter to my mom telling her to cease her drinking lest she lose her job. well she didn't listen to me and she lost her job. chaos ensued for our family. i hated her for her drinking, and yet i drink now...
addiction is hard to explain, but i do understand where you're coming from and i'd like to listen.

when one should disown a family member is a complicated matter, and I'd caution you to be careful before listening to others before you listen to your heart in this matter.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Threadfall]

Originally posted by Spock Shock
...just the fact that I did drink a few drinks before work this morning is the reason I'm posting this... its a habit, a ritual and an addiction...

Realizing it is one thing, changing the groove is hesitant at this point... my uncle lost his home, his car, his wife to booze... I know I wont go that far I have a good will, but my habits are definitely far out there...

And thats all I got for today folks, catch ya on the next post...

Someday you probably will go that far if you don't spend a lot of time dry.
Alcoholism is an acquired disease.
You/we/I get it from drinking too much, or too often.

Originally posted by astralprogger
Being a bartender for 4 years in NYC, I know a lot of alcoholics and have a lot of alcoholic friends. They look for pity from people it's their form of getting attention. Alcohol is an excuse for them for anything they do wrong in their life. Most of them are too afraid to take on the personal issues they have in their lives. They have the choice the moment before they start drinking. It's when they start they lose control.

Yep
It's like being run over by a train.
It's the engine that gets you, not the caboose.
First drink is the wrong one to take.

***
For a real alcoholic the only choice is whether to take the first drink.
After that first drink, there is no longer a choice.
That is the nature of addiction.
***

I am an alcoholic. I don't drink very much because I am an alcoholic. I have maybe a beer a couple of times a year, or a shot of mudslide mix in my coffee once in a while. I did drink alcoholically once upon a time, but a bunch of old men in the Alcohol Rehab, and AA, in the Navy, scared the holy you-know-what out of me when I was only 18 and I was able to quit drinking because my disease hadn't progressed very far. My biological father was an alcoholic, and he gave me the "tendency." Gee, thanks, Dad.

From dictionary.com:

Disease: a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

(Bolding mine)

In alcoholism, the brain (an organ) functions incorrectly, and the disease progresses due to alcohol toxicity affecting the brain as the alcoholic drinks. No, it is not tuberculosis or cancer or the flu; but remember that schizophrenia, obsessive-compulsive disorders, clinical depression, and other psychoses are also diseases.

children of alcoholics have an altered brain chemistry that appears to make them more likely to become alcoholics themselves, ... "This is the first evidence that the brains of the non-alcoholic children of alcoholics differ in the activity of specific brain circuits most scientists link with alcoholism, and that those differences exist before the onset of heavy drinking,"

Source

Although children of alcoholics (COAs) have a greater risk of developing alcohol-use disorders (AUDs), not all COAs will develop AUDs. ... [COAs are between four and ten time more likely than non-COAs to develop AUDs,” said Mary Heitzeg, research investigator in the psychiatry department at the University of Michigan, and lead author for the study. “It is widely believed that this is due to a combination of genes that are passed on and the environment these children are raised in.

Source

From the outside, it is difficult to understand why the alcoholic can not just "put down the bottle." However, this thinking is similar to - and no more productive than - the belief that people who are depressed could get over it if they just got up off their butts and got a life.

Alcoholism is very complex; it is a progressive, incurable, and often fatal disease. It has both physiological and psychological components which, over time, exacerbate each other. The physiological differences in the alcoholic's brain often make it respond differently to other chemicals, such as prescription and OTC drugs, than the "normal" brain. This often causes drug-based treatments and therapies to be ineffective or have unpredictable results. Also, as with smoking, the psychological component can not be treated with drugs and makes recovery that much more difficult. Untreated, alcoholism is often a continuing downward spiral that ends only with the alcoholic's incarceration or death.

Alcoholism is also, to an extent, sort of contagious. The family, loved ones, friends, and coworkers of an alcoholic tend to get caught up in the disease, becoming what is referred to as "co-dependents" or "untreated al-anons." Psychological problems can continue even if the co-dependent successfully separates him/herself from the alcoholic, and may cause problems for the children of alcoholics throughout their lives even if they never touch a drink.

If a loved one of yours had an incurable, contagious disease and there was nothing you could do to help them, what would you do? Would you stay around, endangering yourself and other members of your family even though there was nothing you could do to help the sick person, or would you save your own life and the lives of your other family members by keeping your distance?

This is a reasonable analogy. You can not help the alcoholic as long as he is drinking, and if you try you will only be sucked into the disease. Separate yourself in the interest of self-preservation and allow him back into your life only if he becomes sober and is getting treatment, preferably in AA. Join Al-anon yourself, go to some meetings and do some reading. Al-Anon will help you feel better about yourself, learn about alcoholism, and provide some peace of mind and stress relief.

Negative emotions such as hate, resentment, anger, "despising," etc. do not trouble or harm the alcoholic, they only hurt you. Try to let go of them. Compassion from a distance is good, and pity is acceptable although not constructive. Remember that, although it truly is not the alcoholic's fault - at least, not entirely - it is also not your fault and you do not deserve the emotional pain, suffering, guilt, and other negative emotions you have experienced and are experiencing.

Truly, for your own happiness and mental health, the best thing you can do is distance yourself from the alcoholic and remain uninvolved in his life (and reduce his involvement in your life to the absolute minimum), educate yourself about alcoholism, and seek help and support for yourself in Al-anon.

Best wishes and may you find peace and happiness more quickly than I did; it took me over 40 years.
(edit to correct ex code)

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Heike]

reply to post by FremenBlueEyes


Edit for lack of common sense...

[edit on 8/18/2008 by chapter29]

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I work with drunks every night and despise them all. Especially when they decide to give the place a new paint job useing the contents of their stomaches.

I dont think you despise alcoholics but rather the effects of alcohol on a person (Dependence, behaviour, health...).
Dont despise a person with problems, despise what caused the problems instead. Try to help and if you cant, pity and compassion is always better.

Dispise the alcoholism, try to muster love and compassion for the person.

A major component of the disease is a progressive dispising of the self.
Self respect is consumed by the disease and drives the alcoholic deeper into dispair. Eventually ending in a kind of suicidal self loathing. I have had the occasion to pick alcoholics up off the lawn out of the freezing rain where they would have died of exposure, and put them in a room 50 feet away. I recall being asked why I would do that, why I would care.

If you hate the disease and what it brings, then you must not feed it with more loss of self esteem and self loathing. Hate the disease, starve it! Be strong and clear and open. Love the person inside but hate the disease and the behaviors related to it!