Large Debris Field, No Bodies, No Large Plane Parts. Flight 93? Think again

reply to post by Pilgrum


Hi Pilgrum,

Thanks for the Info. I'll see what I can find regarding that flight as well.

-TY-

reply to post by Pilgrum


www.exponent.com...

One Photo there.

Thanks, -TY-

Edit to add video: This video shows the crash scene, there are some larger debris. But words like: disintegrate, and "does not resemble an aircraft" are used.

www.metacafe.com...

[edit on 1-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Crater with debris? Flight 1771 yes

Flight 93 yes

Please show debris from flight 93 that is at least recognizable.

Now lets look at some other crashes.

1. Payne Stewarts much smaller Learjst hit the ground at very high speed.

It left almost as large as crater as a much larger 757 would have.

It left recognizable debris even though it was a much smaller plane.

2. Flight 800 hit the water at a very high speed but enough debris was found to do a reconstruction for the criminal investigation.

Why have we not seen a reconstruction for Flight 93 if there was debris found?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima,

Your consistant echoing does nothing to your argument. This discussion is about flight 1771 and flight 93 similarities, more specificlly what types of debris fields are created by high speed crashes. Can you find anything wrong with what I posted regarding the smilarities?

Thank you.
-TY-

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
This discussion is about flight 1771 and flight 93 similarities,

Wrong again this is not about flight 1771 and flight 93, please read the thread title.

Please be adult enough to answer the questions raised by the comparisons i have made.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


I see the short bus let you out early today. The topic of conversation is regarding the comparison of flight 1771 to flight 93 and the similarities of the high speed crashes. I should know, I started the thread.

Thank you for paying attention.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


Please show debris from flight 93 that is at least recognizable.

How many times must they be shown?

Now lets look at some other crashes.

1. Payne Stewarts much smaller Learjst hit the ground at very high speed.

It left almost as large as crater as a much larger 757 would have.

What is your point?

It left recognizable debris even though it was a much smaller plane.

Can you please post the kinetic energy involved in both crashes?

2. Flight 800 hit the water at a very high speed but enough debris was found to do a reconstruction for the criminal investigation.

Why have we not seen a reconstruction for Flight 93 if there was debris found?

There wasa reconstruction because they didn't know the casue of the crash. Really Ultima, how many times do you want to go over this???

double post sorry

[edit on 3-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
The topic of conversation is regarding the comparison of flight 1771 to flight 93

Does the thread title state that,,, YES or NO ?

Why are you so afraid of comparing other planes? Are you afraid your medis stories will be proven wrong again?

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
How many times must they be shown?

I am still waiting for 1 piece of debris with a report matching it to Flight 93.

What is your point?

Point is why is the Flight 93 crater so small for a 757?

Can you please post the kinetic energy involved in both crashes?

Well try it yourself, the Learjet hit at a higher speed, so why is their recognizable pieces left?

There wasa reconstruction because they didn't know the casue of the crash. Really Ultima, how many times do you want to go over this???

There was a reconstruction done also because it was a crime scene. How many times do you have to be told?

So please answer the question, why have we not seen a reconstructions of FLight 93 for the crime scene investigation.




[edit on 3-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

We will stick to comparing plane crashes. ok? Since this is what the thread is about. (see page 1 and read the OP) The information on the OP states flight 1771.

Now Ultima, can you please point out where I am in error regarding flight 93's comparisons to flight 1771?

Can you also point out ONE professional aircraft crash professional with experience in examining plane crashes that states that the crater and debris field are NOT consistant with a plane crash.

Let's get through flight 1771, then we will move on over to Payne Stewart.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
Can you also point out ONE professional aircraft crash professional with experience in examining plane crashes that states that the crater and debris field are NOT consistant with a plane crash.

I never stated it was not a plane crash. Just stating the facts that,

1. There are no recognizable parts. Or debris with reports matching them to Flight 93.

2. The crater is small compared to what a 757 should have left as compared to Payne's Learjet and other crashes.

3. The very far spread debris field does not go along with a jet crashing straight into the ground.

4. No reports of a reconstruction done with all the debris reportedly found.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


I never stated it was not a plane crash. Just stating the facts that,

1. There are no recognizable parts. Or debris with reports matching them to Flight 93.

There are recognizable parts. A section of window frames. Parts with the companies colors.

2. The crater is small compared to what a 757 should have left as compared to Payne's Learjet and other crashes.

Please tell me what size crater should have been there. "Compared to what a 757 should have left" is what you are saying...now tell me how big it should have been.

3. The very far spread debris field does not go along with a jet crashing straight into the ground.

Says you and truthers. NTSB said it was normal for that to happen.

again, look at the weight of the debirs, the speed up the wind, the flume. ETC

4. No reports of a reconstruction done with all the debris reportedly found.

There was no need of this. The crime scene was handled by the FBI , it was determined that there were no bombs on the plane. Intentional, crash.

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
There are recognizable parts. A section of window frames. Parts with the companies colors.

Do you recognize it was comming from a 757?

Please tell me what size crater should have been there. "Compared to what a 757 should have left" is what you are saying...now tell me how big it should have been.

The size that had a 757 crash into the ground, not the size of a Learjet.

again, look at the weight of the debirs, the speed up the wind, the flume. ETC

So your saying the wind blew the engine core 2,000 feet away?

4. No reports of a reconstruction done with all the debris reportedly found.

There was no need of this. The crime scene was handled by the FBI , it was determined that there were no bombs on the plane. Intentional, crash.

Do you have the FBI crime scene reports that stated no bombs on the plane?

There should have been a reconstruction as poart of a criminal investigation, just like Flight 800.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Do you recognize it was comming from a 757?

I am not qualified to. I can tell you what company it came from. But, there were many people in Shanksville for weeks after that are more than able to recognize the debris.

The size that had a 757 crash into the ground, not the size of a Learjet.

Ok... what SIZE crater would that be Ultima... Dimensions please.

So your saying the wind blew the engine core 2,000 feet away?

Hey smart guy, I didn't say that and you know it. You should remember from the debate we had how far the engine was found and how it ended up there. The debris that was far away from the point of impact was very light. Remember... I asked you this question several times during the debate and you failed to answer me?

Do you have the FBI crime scene reports that stated no bombs on the plane?

There was a press conference with the lead investigator of the FBI stating as such. Sorry I do not have access to the reports. But hey.. secret agent man... don't you?

There should have been a reconstruction as poart of a criminal investigation, just like Flight 800.

Yeah, waste more time and money putting together a plane because......???

double

[edit on 3-9-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
I am not qualified to.

So you could not recognize debris, thanks for proving my point.

Ok... what SIZE crater would that be Ultima... Dimensions please.

At least the wingspan of a 757.

Hey smart guy, I didn't say that and you know it. You should remember from the debate we had how far the engine was found and how it ended up there.

You stated the debris was blown by the wind, so that has to mean the engine core too.

There was a press conference with the lead investigator of the FBI stating as such. Sorry I do not have access to the reports.

So you cannot claim no bomb if you cannot post the evidence.

Yeah, waste more time and money putting together a plane because......???

Because its a ciminal investigation. We need a criminal investigation into the plane crashes.


911research.wtc7.net...

The Pentagon BPS is the only government investigation of the crash of Flight 77 that admits to existing, but it was defined as and limited to an investigation of the performance of the building. There was no investigation into the crash by the National Transportation and Safety Board

911commission.gov...

By law, the FBI becomes the lead investigative agency when airline crashes are the result of a criminal act, and the NTSB provides support when requested. [37] However, the families were advised by FBI officials that the FBI is investigating only the terrorists.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

The state of the impacted ground will have a significant bearing on the size and shape of the crater, penetration depth of high mass components. Has anyone compared the ground characteristics at these crash sites?

A relatively soft backfilled site will behave very differently to a more compacted rocky, previously undisturbed area.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
A relatively soft backfilled site will behave very differently to a more compacted rocky, previously undisturbed area.

Yes you would think the crater at Shanksville would be bigger because of it being soft backfilled soil.

At leaset a lot bigger then a crater left by a Learjet.




[edit on 4-9-2008 by ULTIMA1]

originally posted by: ThroatYogurt
PSA Flight 1771

Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 was a commercial flight that crashed near Cayucos, California, December 7, 1987. All 43 people on board the aircraft died, including the man who caused the crash, a disgruntled former employee of USAir, the parent company of PSA. He shot his former supervisor, both the pilots, then himself as the plane went down.

Although this crash is not exactly like the crash of flight 93, the explanation of details is eerily similar to that of the crash on 9-11 in Shanksville.

Detective Bill Wammock is the first to arrive on the scene. He recalls “nothing that resembled an airliner... we went on for hours, before we heard the news reports of a missing airliner, believing that we were dealing with a small airplane full of newspapers that had crashed. We saw no pieces of the aircraft that were larger than, maybe, a human hand. It did not look like a passenger aircraft.”

www.airdisaster.com...

What was very interesting was that although this plane crashed at supersonic speed, a suicide note written by the gunman (on an air-sickness bag) was found.

In addition to the note, parts of the gun used in the killings were found. Amazingly enough, there was a shred of tissue still on the gun that matched the killers fingerprints.

With minimal remnants of a plane remaining, the CVR was still recovered. When analyzed it recorded the shots of the gun and the voice of the killer just prior to shooting the pilots.

Watch this 9 minute video from the BlackBox series:

"nothing but papers blowing in the breeze"

"things hanging in the trees"

"the thought never occurred to me that this was bits and pieces of a large plane"

"in most cases nothing larger than a mans hand"

"pictures of family members found"

"credit cards"

Thought I'd bump this thread for iconic.

See? Real information that proves your opinion wrong can be found right here on ATS if you do some honest research.

Start at the beginning.

originally posted by: ThroatYogurt
PSA Flight 1771

Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 was a commercial flight that crashed near Cayucos, California, December 7, 1987. All 43 people on board the aircraft died, including the man who caused the crash, a disgruntled former employee of USAir, the parent company of PSA. He shot his former supervisor, both the pilots, then himself as the plane went down.

Although this crash is not exactly like the crash of flight 93, the explanation of details is eerily similar to that of the crash on 9-11 in Shanksville.

Detective Bill Wammock is the first to arrive on the scene. He recalls “nothing that resembled an airliner... we went on for hours, before we heard the news reports of a missing airliner, believing that we were dealing with a small airplane full of newspapers that had crashed. We saw no pieces of the aircraft that were larger than, maybe, a human hand. It did not look like a passenger aircraft.”

www.airdisaster.com...

What was very interesting was that although this plane crashed at supersonic speed, a suicide note written by the gunman (on an air-sickness bag) was found.

In addition to the note, parts of the gun used in the killings were found. Amazingly enough, there was a shred of tissue still on the gun that matched the killers fingerprints.

With minimal remnants of a plane remaining, the CVR was still recovered. When analyzed it recorded the shots of the gun and the voice of the killer just prior to shooting the pilots.

Watch this 9 minute video from the BlackBox series:

"nothing but papers blowing in the breeze"

"things hanging in the trees"

"the thought never occurred to me that this was bits and pieces of a large plane"

"in most cases nothing larger than a mans hand"

"pictures of family members found"

"credit cards"

Guess this thread needs to be bumped for Salamder too.

Similar comments. Total devastation of the plane.

But there's no dispute that a plane actually crashed.