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Serious question about the paranormal?

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posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Maybe its been asked before, i couldnt find it sorry..

But do people genuinely believe it things like ESP, telekinesis, manufacturing orbs etc without any proof


Im not trying to troll here, its an honest and genuine question. I know that James Randi has offered a million dollars to anyone who can prove any sort of paranormal ability yet no one has ever succeeded. I asked a poster about this the other day who claimed to have "powers" but he mysteriously never answered. Here is a link million dollar challenge to the challenge. Now surely after some of the claims on here SOMEONE must be able to prove something if it exists


Again, im not trolling, not looking for a flame war, its a serious question. I believe in UFO's as i have seen one. My mum thinks im nuts. Shes seen a ghost
, i havent so i think shes nuts !

If someone on here can do some of things i have seen claimed then why has no one won the money yet? Or is it a faith thing ( a bit like UFO's really) that you need to believe in without cast iron proof yet? I mean if someone can really generate an orb of energy (sorry, dont know the technical term) in their hands, then please do it for Randi and win the million quid


Why hasnt someone won the dosh yet ?

Sorry for the ramble




posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Frankly, I'm not a great believer myself, so I can honestly say this without fear of coming off as biased (at least in my eyes).

I think the reason no one has been able to claim the reward is not for lack of trying. It's not that they haven't proven anything, it's that they haven't proven anything within the context and restrictions set by the 'judges' of the phenomenon.

For example, you may have seen that old footage of a woman waving her hands over a compass and making the needle spin crazily. Well, since such a thing could have been faked, they assume it is. Therefore, what kind of proof do they accept other than a psychic kick in the face?

Same goes for UFO's, cryptozooligical claims, and others. There are lots of unusual things in the world. But whenever you see someone putting money up for 'reward' you can usually rest assured it is as an advertisement of their skepticism, and their tests may be more than can be achieved.

On the other hand, it could all be baloney. But something tells me (a hunch) that there may be more to it than what the skeptics and debunkers are able to squelch. I suppose time will tell.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Maxmars]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Well, lets start with the money challenge first then.

I dislike Randi, simply because someone that I trust had tried to ask about whether to the prize was in bonds or in cash, and he got dragged through a whole thing, and in the end, no one really answered his question.

Not to mention, the specifications of the tests aren't told to anyone, and are likely to be decided by Randi, or someone working for him ahead of time. The fact that the specifications are up to them is another thing that makes me distrust him.

They could easily change the parameters of the tests at any time, in order to keep a person who would regularly pass the tests from passing the tests.

Proving something to anyone has proved to be extremely difficult. And, by your logic, considering the claims about UFO's or Bigfoot I've seen on here, SOMEONE has to be able to prove SOMETHING exists, right?

But, no.

Also, the testing is now limited to anyone who is FAMOUS and claims to have ESP, which makes me distrust him even more. I mean, why would being famous have anything to do with it?

You've seen a UFO so you believe. I've seen things of this nature performed by, not only my friends, but also by myself, so I believe.

I'm apart of a select group of people who don't argue with other people about things like ESP being real, we just give ourselves whole-heartedly to the idea and get working.

Would I try to take Randi's money if I was still eligible? No, because I would likely fail miserably, not because it isn't possible, but anything becomes hard to do when your reputation and the whole of the rest of your life is based on how well you perform ANYTHING, not just TK, or telepathy, etc., etc.

Yes, I really believe in that stuff. You have at least one person who really does, lol. I can't vouch for anyone else but myself.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by expatwhite
But do people genuinely believe it things like ESP, telekinesis, manufacturing orbs etc without any proof


Some folks dismiss it, which is fine. The proof is admittedly shaky. The U.S. Army worked with Remote Viewing for quite a while, and while determining that it wasn't useful for intelligence gathering purposes, and they didn't have a clue as to how or why it worked, there was a very small and inconsistent but real effect. Other studies have shown essentially the same thing. Tiny, intermittent effect, very hard to work with because of the human factor (too many unknown contributing variables).

Edit to add: And because the effect is tiny and intermittent, it doesn't lend itself to flashy displays that can win Randi's very biased and unscientific challenge. It would be like trying to get a meteor to fall on cue. Just because you can't doesn't mean meteors don't exist.

So little bits of evidence are there, but it's hard to get good proof because there's no good theoretical framework available to build good studies. Additionally, since there doesn't seem to be a way to make a lot of money from it, private industry in turn doesn't finance significant university studies.

It's a bit frustrating, as is the case with most paranormal subjects, that there seems to be suggestive evidence but not enough to encourage investing in good studies to develop the field.


[edit on 18-8-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Those that could prove it are not motivated by money. Those that know, don't speak, those that can, don't show. It's the way it is. $1million is scant reward for the implications of being able to prove these things. Those that would desire such financial gain, are unlikely aware enough to be able to do them. These abilities are reserved for those who earn them and are not for the masses, and rightly so.

My opinion.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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wow, some really great answers folks, many thanks

If the problem is Randi´s conditions then couldnt someone from ATS get involved and make it a level playing field? I would LOVE someone from here to prove him wrong (and me wrong as well
)

If the problem is the money then couldnt someone do it and donate all the proceeds to charity


I have to be honest, i just dont get it, if i could do something like that then for sure i would go for the money. But maybe its because i have that sort of attitude, that i dont have any sort of gift ?

Could greed be a prime factor in someone not having any sort of empathetic or PSY abilities
On the other side of that arguement though, there are the fortune tellers and clairvoyants (sp) who charge a small fortune for readings, why dont they go for the money if they are genuine?

This whole field intrigues me, maybe due to the fact i have never seen anything at all apart from quack fortune tellers and dodgy spiritualists, yet people i know and trust swear they have experienced things (like my mum).



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by expatwhite
If the problem is the money then couldnt someone do it and donate all the proceeds to charity

It's not about the money, it's about the can of worms.


I have to be honest, i just dont get it, if i could do something like that then for sure i would go for the money. But maybe its because i have that sort of attitude, that i dont have any sort of gift ?

No, try the other way around. It's because you don't have these gifts that you have a different attitude.


Could greed be a prime factor in someone not having any sort of empathetic or PSY abilities

Not the prime factor, just a factor.


This whole field intrigues me, maybe due to the fact i have never seen anything at all apart from quack fortune tellers and dodgy spiritualists, yet people i know and trust swear they have experienced things (like my mum).

Some of these things are achievable but they take a long time of dedication, practice, research and belief. If you're lucky enough to achieve any genuine powers, your path will change you inexorably and increase your awareness exponentially. You will not shout it from the rooftops and no stinking million bucks will even turn your head.

My opinion.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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It could be the government's way of recruiting all people possessing skills like this...



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by Prote

Originally posted by expatwhite


I have to be honest, i just dont get it, if i could do something like that then for sure i would go for the money. But maybe its because i have that sort of attitude, that i dont have any sort of gift ?

No, try the other way around. It's because you don't have these gifts that you have a different attitude.


I have never looked at it that way


Great answers. I want to believe in some sort of special or higher power, or even some higher evolved human gifts, but i just cant get my head round it without experiencing it for myself. My loss i suppose, but thanks guys



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by Nohup
 

I think Nohup's post sums it up nicely.


Well to be honest I believe in the paranormal because I have had multiple personal experiences with the phenomenon. When you experience these things you cannot do anything else but believe. Now I know there is no proof so I can imagine why people would be skeptical about this whole thing.

I know I would also be skeptical if it weren't for those personal experiences.



[edit on 19/8/08 by Fastwalker81]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by expatwhite
 


Have you experienced anything at all that you would consider para-normal? Have you ever tried dabbling in any of it? I have seen and experienced a little, but it was enough to believe that just about anything is possible and not everything can be explained.

I don't believe in XMEN like powers or anything. I think that is what Randi is trying to suggest, that people claim to have such powers and he is trying to prove that they don't. I think the whole thing is a lot more subtle than that.

I also think that it is all in your head. That statement holds a lot more meaning to me now than it used to.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by expatwhite
 


When Uri Geller went on Johnny Carson's show, he and his handlers were kept away from the items to be used for Uri's "abilities". He failed to do anything and blamed it on the "pressure of performing". Mr Carson, being an amateur magician himself, had called James Randi before the show and was told not to let Geller or his people near the props. Johnny was a skeptic of Uri's abilities since they were magicians tricks.

I believe some people actually believe they are psychic, and will always give anecdotes on their abilities. I have see too many people do magic tricks and claim they are psychic abilities. My only problem is people who scam on the poor souls who have recently lost a loved one. There is nothing worse than preying on a bereaved person and charging them money for it.

I also have ordered a book on Wolf Messing, who lived in Stalin's USSR. I would keep an open mind on his abilities, since Mr Stalin was not the kind of person you fooled or tried to fool.
I am open minded to any psychic ability, and would love to see it proven.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Prote
Those that could prove it are not motivated by money. Those that know, don't speak, those that can, don't show. It's the way it is. $1million is scant reward for the implications of being able to prove these things. Those that would desire such financial gain, are unlikely aware enough to be able to do them. These abilities are reserved for those who earn them and are not for the masses, and rightly so.

My opinion.


Your opinion, but it is shared by others. The powers that be are available to all, but you must show a certain discipline, and rigor in the path towards mastery. That is why these abilities are reserved for those who earn them.

I was telling a friend the other day, "How come I can talk to some people and they get it, just as much as me. I don't spend my time explaining everything to them. Other people I can talk until I am blue in the face and they will still be like "huh?" .

She said, "Well because when your talking to the right people the words are just markers for you to keep up during the telepathy."

Little light bulb in my head goes off.....

"That's so true!"


So when I talk to you I can instantly know who I am talking to and know whether or not your a friendly.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 07:23 AM
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i firmly believe that these things do exist even though we cannot prove them . i think of it as the same concept (forgive my lack of a better word) as people believing in a God(s) (and Goddess in my belief). we do not SEE or HEAR these beings (well some say they do but i'm not getting into that) but we believe in them nevertheless.
please do not think of me as a nutjob.
-p.q.



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