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Court: Doctors can't withhold care to gays based on religious beliefs

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posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Totally agreed, but in the position held by a Doctor I believe that neither prejudice or discrimination have any place in medicine... When it comes down to it - everyone has the right to be treated, and I think they should have the professionalism, not to let their beliefs interfere. It is no ones business what is done in the bedroom - and it isn't the physicians place to judge. The physician is to treat - not play God.

Again. Just my opinion.

- Carrot




In this case the courts ruled the doctors must play god. Artificial Insemination is not treatment or saving someone.

I agree with most of this but the context at how it was reached is a bit disturbing.




posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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Um, I don't get it.

In war a doctor, or a Medic, will heal anyone. Why normally they are never killed or harmed. If they find you and you're the enemy? They will heal you because that is the oath they took.

But I guess if you're a gay soldier the Medic would refuse to treat you...



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by wolfmanjack

Don't blame others for your own ignorance itguysrule.. The Joke was well placed and not directed at anyone here at ats. Time to grow up and leave ignorance behind.

Do a google search for Proctologist if you still can't figure out the joke

[edit on 18-8-2008 by wolfmanjack]


Well Wolfman I guess I am just not as smart or sophisticated or grown up as you are -- I know what a proctologist is and I still don't get the joke. Maybe you could favor me with a U2U to explain it so you don't expose my ignorance further.

I guess being a member of ATS for 6 WHOLE days and being from California makes you all special.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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This has everything to do with the personal beliefs of the doctors involved. Today if someone does not support the agenda of the gay community that person is called homophobic. It is as if anyone who does not believe in the agenda of gays can no longer have personal feelings about these issues. It is fine for gays to tread on the rights of those who do not feel as they do, but not the other way around.

These doctors were not refusing a life saving procedure or withholding required medical attention to someone injured or ailing. These doctors were not allowed their freedom of religion. In essence they were denied their constitutional rights.

The people who referred to the Hippocratic Oath in their postings should read the translation from the original, which was written in Greek. This document had doctors take an oath not to do abortions. If this is the case then abortions should not be allowed under this oath.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


It's not up to the doctor to say whether someone is a fit parent or an unfit parent, based on nothing more than a false ideological/religious premise.

The fact is, a person in a gay relationship has as much right to be a parent as person in a "normal" relationship.

There's also the fact that the man whose teachings these doctors allegedly follow never said a word about homosexuality, let alone condemn it.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by itguysrule

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
Somewhere out there is a Mormon Proctologist contemplating suicide right now.


So what is that remark supposed to mean? First, I don't even understand the apparent "joke" - if there is one. Second, what does that have to do with the discussion at hand. Third, how does that obvious slam at other ATS members not violate the T&C?


Good grief don't be so sensitive

This would be even funnier... Which did I slam (although I slamed no one) Mormons or Homosexuals?

You couldn't actually tell me could you? You could only make an assumption based upon Your Personal issues.

PC is an abomination, you shouldn't be brainwashed into it... all it does is divide...

My best employee happens to be Mormon and my kids live next door to a Mormon family... and I went to the NY school of performing arts growing up... so my HS was 80% Homosexual...

I have no problem with either group

But I do often times find both groups to be....funny and that's not racist or bigotted... it's just funny....

You know, mostly when you find intolerance, it's usually aimed at a group of people that...take themselves way to seriously in life...

and it sucks that others who aren't get grouped in but that's what happens when you get all extreme about things...

Fanatic Islam won't let you draw a picture of mohammed lol, Religous jews are unquestionable... (and i'm Jewish) will move into a neighboorhodd and demand...everyone do things that appease them...let the car alarm go off all day to not violate the Sabbath...

and these are examples of nutty people...

Same goes for Gays... I can't despite having tons of Gay friends...condone a doctor who, has a personal issue with it...being forced to work in private practicve on anyone he doesn't want to...

I can't go to my favorite bar without shoes and a collered shirt... it's their business it's there right... (i'm not refering to an emergency room or life or death btw)

The Joke is funny because... you can visualize a person who has religous beliefs that deny homosexual activity being forced to stick his finger in a gay person rear and how uncomfortable it would make him...

In the same way... it's Funny when Wille Coyote gets hit with an Anvil... or you accidently suprise a cat and it's eyes bug out and it jumps ten feet...

It's not a statement or an uncaring... it's just funny...

One time when I was in college, there was a patch of ice outside... and me and my buddy sat there and laughed our asses off as person after person getting off the bus fell on their kiester... it was mean, it was wrong on alot of levels...

but it was the funniest thing ever... the expression, the reaction...

why is it funny? Can't even explain it but I had tears from laughing for over an hour ...

Big Black Guy, Hot Women, student... it wasn't funny because the guy was Black or she was a Girl it was... funny because they fell... and I guess it's catching a person in an awkward moment...

Much like the image of a religous conservative man being presented with a flamboayntly gay persons rear and having to examine it... the discomfort and all the rest...strikes me as very funny...

and it's no personal opinion of anyones life... it's just funny

But real anger comes...real bias... when people feel threatened, you want to see genuine uproar at homosexuals? Just be a person that says you can;t laugh at homosexuals and you you have to teach your children against your beliefs that it is a fine lifestyle... then you get, people that have absolutely nothing against homosexuals...starting to resnet them...

because PC requires you to Put your Will on other people and they always recoil it...

and Ditto for religion... People have nothing against Mormons, but say... you can't make Jokes about them and say you have to teach their ways in school...

thats where...real racism and intolerence begins to form... because , you force people to... change their ways...you become a threat, a boss...a Nazi...

and yeah...there are Gay nazis out there that think everyone should be or is secretly kind of gay... and you can't comment and have to teach their way of life in school and... would enforce themselves on others as a group...

when you start telling people they can;t talk or have to live a life they dont want to live be it... working with someone in their own business they don;t want to or whatever...

your going beyond teaching tolerence and enforcing behavior and morals

and there is NO wrong or right just different ways...

and Homosexuals and Mormons are as open to being goofed on as anyone else... and if they don't like it, too bad...

and why too bad? because... Not being better or different than anyone else is where humor begins... it's a level playing field, an equalizer.. aplace where we are all genuinely equal...

when I can't make jokes about you...your a group that needs to be dealt with not a friend...

and ... Please, people post threads in here about Destroying America... Literally killing Human beings... and don't get banned...

Me I made a funny joke about... proctology, your offense is your own issues coming to the surface not mine...


and, what would make you different for having me banned for a joke than ... a person that thought Black people shouldn't be on the same side of a bus or women couldn't vote...

Offend? My personal opinion is... Militant Homosexuals and Militant religous types are far more annoying to everyones peace than my dumb joke ever could be...

So before you start talking of banning a guy for making a joke... Look in the mirror and see what a Nazi you have become for your cause...whatever it may be.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


www.narth.com...

Like I said, some studies have shown that these situations expose children to higher risks of mental and emotional ailments and complications. I wasn't basing my argument on religion, Budski. Furthermore, I find it incredibly naive that people believe that associations like the American Psychiatric Association didn't redefine homosexuality as not being a mental disorder purely under political and social pressure, without any hard scientific evidence to base their reassessment on. Sexual deviations and perversions, like homosexuality, were once classified as mental disorders by most everyone in the psychiatric field, many of whom were devout atheists. In fact, by definition, homosexuality is abnormal behavior, as it does not conform to normalcy, ie: what the average person's behavior consists of.

Acting as the mechanism which deliberately places a child in a home such as that is NOT acting in the child's best interests and is, therefore, a violation of the "do no harm" doctrine medical professionals swear to conduct themselves under. I would feel equally disturbed by doctors conducting artificial insemination or adoption agencies placing children in homes with anyone who displays seriously abnormal behaviors such as obsessive compulsive disorder, Munchausen's by proxy, or severe clinical depression. We have enough screwed up kids in the world without positioning more kids in situations where they're almost guaranteed to grow up with gender identity and self esteem issues.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


What you've said is so true, that I'm glad there was a complaint about your joke. Without the complaint you never would have made that post.

I had to think about the joke a bit before I got it - and the more I thought the funnier it became. Thanks.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by berenike
reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


What you've said is so true, that I'm glad there was a complaint about your joke. Without the complaint you never would have made that post.

I had to think about the joke a bit before I got it - and the more I thought the funnier it became. Thanks.


Thanks! You know... Alot of people in here worry about our freedoms and the NWo and I always argue that my life has remained truely free and I just don't see most of this loss of freedom.

But if the day comes when I truely find that my ability to laugh at the things in this world that are mental has been eroded, that's the day i know things have truely gotten out of hand.

And on the same note, may I never take myself so seriously that I can not equally be the but of a joke myself now and again... humility is not a bad thing.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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I thought doctors COULD refuse unnessesary procedures, ie artificial insemination,plastic surgury,ect. If the condition isn't life threatening, they cant force the procedure.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by itguysrule

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
Somewhere out there is a Mormon Proctologist contemplating suicide right now.


So what is that remark supposed to mean? First, I don't even understand the apparent "joke" - if there is one. Second, what does that have to do with the discussion at hand. Third, how does that obvious slam at other ATS members not violate the T&C?


its Ok dude, a proctologist is a butt-doctor.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by dalan.

Originally posted by itguysrule

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
Somewhere out there is a Mormon Proctologist contemplating suicide right now.


So what is that remark supposed to mean? First, I don't even understand the apparent "joke" - if there is one. Second, what does that have to do with the discussion at hand. Third, how does that obvious slam at other ATS members not violate the T&C?


its Ok dude, a proctologist is a butt-doctor.


A Proctologist is a colon doctor who is important in the fight against cancer in men. Calling them a butt doctor is rather crude.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Omg... if there is any kind of doctor that gets some ribbing it's going to be Proctologist no1, Gynocologist no2

For the love of g-d it doesn't detract from the good they do in the world to have a laugh at a guy who goes elbow diving into other peoples rectums for a living...


What do you think the proctologist doesn't go home and make jokes about peoples butts? I bet almost all of them do... it's got to be funny if your wife has a sense of humor ... sitting at the dinner table... particularly if your the guy that had to remove the Hamster from richard gere...

Anal humor is funny... look at south parks ratings

Seriously, the best part about this ridiculousness is... it's probably the most uptight people who clench up so hard they get an impacted colon and have to go to the proctologist...so lol of course those types take great opffense to any poking fun, their sphincters are wound so tight the proctologist wil surely one day save their lives....




posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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It's past 2am here and I am crying with laughter.

I'm going to bed soon and I expect I'll still be laughing when I wake up.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by berenike
 


lol, sleep well... hope my vivid descriptive urrrrmmm stuff doesn't make for wierd dreams ...or nightmares


But on a serious note... there is a real point in all of this:

Look how easilly ofended people can be.

But in the same voice we would say that a doctor should have to overcome all of their personal beliefs and treat anyone who demands it... but the proctologist example..beyond the humor is real, there are some pretty wild situations and types of clients a doctor might be subjected to...

If not in an emergency room and in private practice how can we demand that a doctor have to actually Do things that some of us can't even bear to talk about without being offended?



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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I think they (the religious doctors) may want to secretly kill their homosexual patients. Never have I seen in any religious book "Deny thine medical experience to the men who lay with other men as they should lay with women.", so they are indirectly killing them on purpose. Of course, I'm mostly kidding...

Mostly



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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As a physician, I can say with confidence that these so-called physicians should lose their licenses to practice medicine. A physician is held to a higher standard than the population at large; a physician is taught in medical school to set aside personal beliefs when treating a patient, or at the very least to refer the patient elsewhere for treatment. One can look up a drug or treatment if unfamiliar with it; one cannot relearn an entire system of morals and professional ethics. BTW the religious right is neither.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


You may not believe this, but I really appreciate your thoughtful reply to my post. I honestly didn’t understand the joke – now that you have explained it to me I have to admit it IS rather funny.

As you said so well in your post, what really upsets people is when they feel threatened. I am perfectly happy to go through life living my life the way I choose and allowing everyone else the same privilege. I truly and honestly don’t care if someone lives a gay lifestyle as long as they don’t try to force me to be involved with it. This whole thread is upsetting to me because it is just another example of people in power imposing their beliefs on others. I don’t want to be forced to teach my children things I believe to be wrong any more than I think doctors or pharmacists should be forced to provide ELECTIVE treatments that are against their personal beliefs.

Since I didn’t understand your joke I assumed it was just another cheap shot at Mormons like many other posts I have seen here. I guess I WAS oversensitive. Sorry about that.



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 09:21 PM
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Ah gotcha... your Mormon

I understand, no worries


and I do understand because Mormons do take alot of bs and mostly for no reason, I didn't know any Mormons growing up in NY but after moving to Az I have found myself friends with a great many and suprising the family life is probably closer to my jewish family than any other group I have ever met...perhaps from a shared non understanding and mythology about beliefs?

I dunno... but I do know I have some very close Mormons in my life now and absolutely there was no offense intended...

I actually was thinking of a Mormon Doctor I know who is an unbelieveable staright fellow from a very small town and what his reaction would be facially when I made the joke...



posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 09:44 PM
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I can't believe I'm reading this either - but then again I sort of can. My boyfriend (fiance) and I of 6 yrs. had protected sex and one time the condom had broken. Not being ready for a child quite yet, we rushed to a care first center to get a prescription for the "morning after pill". We waited and waited to be seen and when the doctor finally came to me and asked what I was there for, he refused me saying it was against his beliefs. Now, I was younger then (21) and was trying to be responsible and felt like I needed to hurry with this before it was too late and I waited all that time to be denied! He eventually got another doctor who tested me to make sure I wasn't already pregnant and then prescribed me the pills to make sure I couldn't. Luckily it all worked out in the end, and from then on my boyfriend and I were even more cautious. But the point is, as a doctor you should be able to put your personal beliefs aside in favor of the patient you are caring for (especially when you're not the one paying the bill!!) It wasn't like I was running in there asking for an abortion (which I know is a very controversial subject), I thought I was trying to be more responsible. He just made me feel even more terrible about the situation by looking down on me and judging me. Isn't judgment God's job?



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