DNC convention passes feature upside down US flag.

reply to post by evanmontegarde


Agreed

Look, we only point out when the "Big Flag Lapel Crowd" incorrectly displays the flag. This is a designer who volunteered their services most likely, and spent about an hour designing the card and printing it out at Kinkos.

I could really give a crap, and I'm only commenting on this to say that I really, really think this is a stupid thing to care about. If the oceans die, and/or nuclear war happens -- can you eat this little card with an incorrect usage of the flag, or would it be better to burn it for heat? Who knows...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I agree with you BH - this country is far from the land of freedom.

Also, that's exactly why myself, my father, my two uncles, and my grandfather all served...so that people can enjoy their rights and freedoms. Keep wearing that flag patch proudly!!!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

No the people who say this are vetrans or sons,fathers,mothers,brothers of veterans.You must not be any of these things BH.
Its called respect for something you belive in like our freedom and the people who have fought for it.I don't know anything about you other then you are an Obama supporter and that says quit a bit.

if you fight for the right of people to say the things they do

then why do you go back on your actions and criticize them for saying it?

If you dont like the fact that they CAN say what they want

don't fight for it.

reply to post by theendisnear69

Originally posted by theendisnear69
Good for them. I wear an American flag upside down as a patch on my jacket.

You're apt to get punched in the face if you walk around some parts of the country. I'm guessing you're young, or at least hoping, because that's pretty immature. It's the same as knowing when to keep your mouth shut - which is why I don't wear any political shirts.



reply to posts by Andrew E. Wiggin

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
So let me get this straight.

First he's not American enough because he doesnt wear a lapel pin (ha!)

and now he's too American?

Nope, still not enough. His design (or at least who is advertising for him, I doubt he actually looked at one of those cards) shows an upside-down flag, intentional or not. That wouldn't be a big issue most of the time, but we're talking a campaign for President of the United States. So loyalty to the country is pretty important.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
our country IS in distress because of a REPUBLICAN president.

Nah, it's doing pretty fine. The President did relatively little to do anything of that nature.



reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Oh, yeah, I meant to say that, too. If our country's not in distress, I don't know what is.

Sounds like you don't know all that much, then.


[edit on 18-8-2008 by Johnmike]

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
if you fight for the right of people to say the things they do

then why do you go back on your actions and criticize them for saying it?

If you dont like the fact that they CAN say what they want

don't fight for it.

You are free to say whatever you want, but you aren't free from criticisms. Why do you have such a problem with criticism?

reply to post by jam321

If you fought for that right, then why do you have a problem when someone exercises the right you fought for? And if you're against the right, why did you fight for it?

Show me where I have a problem. Did I tell somebody to wear it right? Did I tell somebody to take it off? Did I tell somebody that I was going to get the Flag police on them?

The problem is people like you who twist things. You read into things that don't even exist.

Just like the other person has the right to say that there is no freedom and that the flag is only a cloth, I also have the right to express how I feel about such things.

Originally posted by theendisnear69
reply to post by AndrewTB

 

Ahh I have been to plenty of countries.

So please tell me what makes this flag so special?

Visit The UK and you are constantly watched by cameras everywhere you go.

Visit Russia and don't count on being around long if you have your own political beliefs and speak up about em.

Visit Iran and you lose pretty much any right you have.

Visit China and be told you have freedom of relegion only to go missing when you practice it.

Theres are all a few very very small examples.

In the US you are free to do almost anything. Sure you cant do whatever drugs you want, but your pretty much free to believe in and practice whatever the heck you want.

Than again from the nature of your posts, i take it your the type that sees Amsterdam (netherlands) as the ultimate country to live in. There are reasons why I specified that specific country.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

if you fight for the right of people to say the things they do

then why do you go back on your actions and criticize them for saying it?

If you dont like the fact that they CAN say what they want

don't fight for it.

I've respected your right to say outrageous things but will not sit back and let you question my reason for fighting. You don't know me. I served for no benefits, I served for no GI Bill, I served for no glory,

I served because I believe in my country, believe in doing something for my country, and believe in protecting the freedom of my country.

If you can't handle that that's your dilemma. You act as if nobody has a right to voice their opinion. It's your way or the highway.

If Obama wants to fly your distress flag, be my guess. I respect that.

On election day voters can show Obama how much they respect it too.

reply to post by jam321


haha Please tell me who you defended my "freedoms" from. When was the last war that our well being was actually threatened in.
Going over to Iraq or Vietnam is not fighting for our freedoms.

So please save me the excuse that people have died for my right to criticize your flag, because they haven't in the last hundred years.

reply to post by Johnmike


No actually I have never been punched in the face or threatened. I wear it upside down proudly. I also wear alot of political shirts. Yeah i'm 18. Maybe thats the problem with America everyone gets old and "keeps their mouths shut".

Why wouldn't you wear them? Atleast get your voice heard. You keep quiet for fear of being criticized?

[edit on 18-8-2008 by theendisnear69]

reply to post by AndrewTB


So because i'm an anarchist i'm a pot smoker? haha why would you assume such a thing?

NO I like it just fine hear in Amerika. But we are raping the rest of the world. I hate the country because we don't share what good things we have. Americans are some of the most selfish people I have met. I lived in England and Iceland. Nothing compares to American selfishness. Instead we are invading small countries that have "WMDs".

reply to post by theendisnear69


Can't argue with a brick wall, so why try. You wouldn't recognize a threat to your freedom even if it stood up, slapped you in the face, and called you by your middle name.

Like I said Obama can use that flag anyway he wants and I will respect. But I'll be damn if I have to agree with it.


Let freedom ring, let freedom ring


Hoorrraaahhh!!!!!!!!!!!! What did you say

Hooorrraaahhh!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by jam321


Please name a threat to my freedom that our killing machines have protected me from?

Originally posted by theendisnear69
reply to post by Dronetek

 

It's a flag people get over it.

Wow... I'm going to paste a speech that humbled me many months ago. I would post a link to the audio but it has been removed from the net. I sincerely hope you read every single word: *edit* not 100% accurate*

Francis Scott Key was a lawyer in Baltimore. The colonies were engaged in vicious conflict with the mother country, Britain. Because of this conflict, they had accumulated prisoners on both sides. The American colonies had prisoners and the British had prisoners. And the American Gov't initiated a move. They went to the British and said let us negotiate for the release of these prisoners. They said, “We want to send a man out to discuss this with you.” They were holding the American prisoners in boats about a thousand yards offshore. And they said, “We want to send a man by the name of Francis Scott Key. He will come out and negotiate to see if we can make a mutual exchange.”

On the appointed day, in a rowboat, he went out to this boat and he negotiated with the British Officials. And they reached a conclusion that men could be exchanged on a one-for-one basis.

Francis Scott Key, Jubilant with the fact that he'd been successful, went down below in the boats and what he'd found was a cargo hold full of humanity. Men.

And he said, "Men, I've got news for you tonight, you're free!" He said, "Tonight I have negotiated successfully your return to the colonies." He said, "You'll be taken out of this boat, out of this filth, out of your chains.”

As he went back up on board to arrange for their passage to the shore, the admiral came and he said, “We have a slight problem.” He said, “We will still honor our commitment to release these men, but it'll be merely academic after tonight. It won't matter.”

Francis Scott Key said, "What do you mean?"

He said, "Well Mr. Key, tonight, we have laid an ultimatum upon the colonies. Your people will either capitulate and lay down the colors of that flag that you think so much of, or -- you see that fort right over there -- Fort Henry?" He said, "We're going to remove it from the face of the earth."

[Key] said, "How are you going to do that?"

[The admiral] said, "If you will, scan the horizon of the sea."

As Key looked, he could see hundreds of little dots.
And [The admiral] said, “That's the entire British war fleet.” He said, “All of the gun power; all of the armament is being called upon to demolish that fort. The fleet will be here within striking distance in a matter of about two and a half hours.” He said, “The war is over; these men would be free anyway.”
[Key] said, "You can't shell that fort!" He said, “That's a large fort.” He said, “It's full of women and children.” He said, “It's predominantly not a military fort.”
[The Admiral] said, "Don't worry about it. They said we've left them a 'way out'"
[Key] said, "What's that?"
[The Admiral] said, "Do you see that flag way up there on the rampart?" He said, "We have told them that if they will lower that flag, the shelling will stop immediately...and we'll know that they've surrendered...and you'll now be under British rule.”
Francis Scott Key went down below and told the men what was about to happen. And they said, "How many ships?", and he said, "Hundreds."
The ships got closer. Francis Scott Key went back up on top and he said, "Men, I'll shout down to you what's going on as we watch."
As twilight began to fall…and as the hays hung over the oceans as it does at sunset, suddenly the British war fleet unleashed.
Bam!
He said, "The sounds were deafening." He said, "There were so many guns, there were no reliefs." He said, "It was absolutely impossible to talk or hear." He said, "Suddenly, the sky, although dark, was suddenly lit."
And he says from down below, all he could hear, the men, the prisoners saying was, "Tell us where the flag is. What have they done with the flag? Is the flag still flying over the rampart? Tell us!"
One hour. Two hours. Three hours into the shelling. Every time the bomb would explode and it would be close to the flag, they could see the flag in the illuminated red glare of that bomb, and Francis Scott Key would report down to the men below, "It's still up! It's not down!”
The admiral came, and he said, "Your people are insane." He said, "What's the matter with them?" He said, "Don't they understand this is an impossible situation?"
Francis Scott Key said he remembered what George Washington had said. He said, "The thing that sets the American Christian apart from all other people in the world is he will die on his feet before he'll live on his knees.”
The Admiral said, “We have now instructed all of the guns to focus on the rampart to take that flag down.” He said, “We don't understand something. Our reconnaissance tells us that that flag has been hit directly...again...and again...and again, and yet it's still flying. We don't understand that.” “But”, he said; “now we're about to bring every gun, for the next three hours, to bear on that point.”
Francis Scott Key said the barrage was unmerciful. All that he could hear was the men down below praying. The prayer: "God keep that flag flying where we last saw it."
Sunrise came. Key said there was a heavy mist hanging over the land, but the rampart was tall enough...there stood the flag...completely nondescript...in shreds. The flagpole itself was at a crazy angle. But the flag was still at the top. Francis Scott Key (went aboard and) immediately went into Fort Henry to see what had happened. And what he'd found had happened was that that flagpole and that flag had suffered repetitious direct hits...and when it had fallen...that men, fathers...who knew what it meant for that flag to be on the ground...although knowing that all of the British guns were trained on it, walked over and held it up...humanly...until they died. Their bodies were removed and others took their place. Francis Scott Key said what held that flagpole in place at that unusual angle...were patriots' bodies.
Friend it's not just a flag. I assume you aren't even American.
*geez, how many times do I have to add that [ for it to work?


[edit on 18-8-2008 by beaverg]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by beaverg]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by beaverg]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by beaverg]

[edit on 19-8-2008 by beaverg]

Like you said your 18 and too young to understand. What the hell i will try anyway.

First i got nothing against you. Don't agree but that is a different story. I will even agree with you that we are selfish, but only because we don't believe in socialism. That aside.

You can either face the evil in the world right now or face the evil in the world when it comes back later to bite you in the butt. If we had left Saddam alone and allowed him to continue to conquer the middle east and threaten its neighbors with WMD's, how long would it be before our freedom is threatened?

How long do you think it would take him to unite with terrorist and send them over here to do their damage? What kind of restrictions do you think our country would put us? What kind of rights do you think our country would strip from us?

Do you really think the government will allow you to go wherever you want.?

Have we not lost freedoms since 9/11?

Do we not continue to lose our freedom as we speak now?

Whether you believe it or not these wars are about our freedom. Today you have them, tomorrow you may not.

With that said, I still respect your right to disagree

reply to post by jam321



Ahh thats the worst part about being 18 is nobody sees you for who you are, they just see that your 18 and stupid hahaha.

So you seriously believe that there were WMDs in Iraq? You really really think that Iraq posed a threat to our security?

reply to post by beaverg


Very nice story. One I have heard many times. But the flag that flew that day and what it stands for is completely different thanwhat that flag means today.

reply to post by theendisnear69


I don't think your stupid at all. Maybe I am wrong but most young adults go by what they are told rather than what they can research themselves.

Hitler went unchecked for many years and look what he got the world into.

Yes, I do believe Saddam had WMD's, especially in the first war and he showed many times that he wasn't afraid to use them. I also feel that in a round about way he was a danger to our security. Saddam only cared about Saddam. Not his people, not his country, just himself. Ruthless as they come and would try to take out anyone who got in his way. But please don't take my word or anybody else's word for it. Do some good research and come to your own opinion.

One thing i didn't think Saddam could do was to fool the whole world into believing that he was still producing WMD's. Most of the WMD found were from the first war.

Saddam pulled the MOTHER OF ALL BLUFFS. I guess in a way he did get the last laugh.

That aside. i will say we are to blame for his rise. We armed him during his war with Iran. So in a way we helped create the monster. At least you can't say that I am being one sided.

Why does every thread have to come down to people bashing people... if Ignorance could fly this woud be an Airport!

I proudly fly my flag every day upside down. America is in great distress. If you proudly fought to keep our freedoms (applause)... but why did it end when you took off your uniform??? (not all, but many, not me) I say this, because as our brave men and women are fighting overseas, our freedoms are being stripped away here at home. I don't see many of these vets all up in arms about losing those freedoms that they fought so proudly to keep. I say if you truly feel the way most of you say you do... then you would surely be flying your flag upside down (or at least understanding why someone may feel it appropriate), standing up and shouting for your rights. We have a President that considers the Constitution to be a G-D piece of paper... he probably wipes his butt with the flag... and yet everyone defends our corrupt government and prosecutes those who raise their voices against it. Think about it... what has the Government ever done for vets... not a dam thing! Every pro sports player gets paid millions and gets the best medical care -- all the politicians make hundreds of thousands and have great medical care... but you - our vets - the ones who fought for our country and freedoms have what?? NOTHING! You have to fight for health care.. fight to make ends meet.. most have been fighting ever since they got home.

OP - I doubt very much that Osama Obama would have the intelligence to come up with that pamplet himself... but maybe the person that designed it was expressing his own views of our country. Maybe even his views of Obama putting us into even more distress. Could just be a mistake or something that was overlooked due to artistic expression. Who knows. Thanks for the thread - it really does help one see exactly the types of people we get to deal with here on a daily basis.

PS - for those that want to bash me with potty mouths saying I'm not American because I believe in hanging the flag upside down (I also believe in burning it in protest)... I say it is more American to Protest Against a Criminal Government than it is to sit on the couch and wave a flag and remember the good old days when you would have stood beside me.



[edit on 19-8-2008 by thecandyman]

[edit on 19-8-2008 by thecandyman]