It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Laser Blinds Passenger Jet Pilot

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by Nikolas

Quality LASER show systems in clubs are MINIMAL 100mW, and they are placed 3 meters away from the crowd. How many people dancing have you seen going "ahh ahh I can't see the hot girl in front of me, turn it off". LOL actually, I don't think most people on this forum go out much so probably wouldn't know.




are these lasers static or moving extremely quickly?

i don't get it, even normal laser pointers can be harmful under certain conditions, you don't have full control over focus and where you're looking, much of that is just reflex.

of course you might get lucky, then again you might not and toying around with someone else's eyesight is attempted mutilation. under the given circumstances, it's much more, no matter what the guy himself thought it was.

wrt your sarcastic AWACS comment, how hard can it be to target something with a bright glowing beam when viewed through a scope? note that i don't know what he was using, it's just easy to do, including alignment of the laser. even without one, improbable does not mean impossible and the story sounds perfectly reasonable when you take common knowledge of hacked lasers and previous incidents into account.

keller.house.gov...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

of course they might have made them all up, then again i might be hallucinating in the matrix instead of typing on my keyboard. get my drift?



Originally posted by Peepers
Lance a lot you be dreaming brother.

Lets use some critical thinking here.


so, iow, IAS and altitude are more important than your flight path, did i get that right?

in your car you look at your speedometer constantly? sorry have you ever tried a flight simluator? ILS is much harder than visual approach, that is why you need extra qualifications for blind landing.

oh and btw, you don't need to see the cockpit. if the pilot can look outside, his eyes must be in line with what he's looking at, d'uh. iow, if you can see it, it can hit you and i hope you're not going to tell me that a pilot can't see the end of the runway when landing, will you?

[edit on 2008.8.20 by Long Lance]




posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 03:03 AM
link   

of course you might get lucky, then again you might not and toying around with someone else's eyesight is attempted mutilation. under the given circumstances, it's much more, no matter what the guy himself thought it was.

Exactly.

Even if there were no safety concerns, the moron was just messing with someones eyesight...harassment... I'd love to see the fool get lasers shined in his eyes while he's trying to do his job and see how he likes it.

[edit on 20/8/2008 by C0bzz]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 04:01 AM
link   
Has anyone actually considered this properly?

I'm assuming the guy was using a standard laser pen rather than some high powered laser on a tripod.

Laser is light, it gets weaker the further it travels.

Passenger jet planes will land somewhere in region of 100mph, the cockpit windows are tiny in comparison to the size of the plane itself.

I really doubt he was standing head on with the cockpit as the plane was coming into land.

A 1mm movement in the hand holding the laser is turned to what over a distance of some hundred meters?

More than likely he got lucky and for a split second flashed it across the pilots eyes.

I'm not condoning what he did, it's stupid but I really doubt it was anything serious.

Apologies if I've missed something, didn't have time to read the entire thread gotta dash off to work.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 06:09 AM
link   

Has anyone actually considered this properly?

You admit you have not read the thread. Have you considered this properly?


Here are quotes from real pilots on other forums:


Happened to me in December and has recently happened to others.

Very bright green laser. Surprisingly distracting. Even the passengers noticed.


One of my previous airlines had a "Unscheduled Laser Illumination Report" form you were supposed to fill out, in addition to a normal Incident report. Found out about it after I reported a Laser sighting and the company prompted me to fill out the additional report. And yeah, its BRIGHT. Resist the impulse and look away!


My flight school has had a few reports, we have to fill out our own paper work and notify the tower asap so that law enforcement can be called.


I had one going into PHL about 6 months ago, on the Bunts arrival, about 10 east of Bunts off our right about 3 o'clock. It was a very powerful green laser. I looked away quickly and was fine but the Captain looked a little too long and saw spots for awhile.



Got zapped once going into OAK runway 29. Just over the outer marker.


Around a month ago we were on final at IAD for 1L around 12:30 AM. The CA was flying and around a 5 mile final I looked to the left near 11 o'clock and was hit by a green laser from an industrial district. It was a very brief moment, but I got a direct hit. I didn't see dots, but it caused me to wince when it happened.


Maybe it is time to start regulating the private sales and ownership of lasers which are capable of higher output levels. It'd be interesting to at least get a proposal on the table. The ensuing debate may well get these little laser pointing geeks to think before they point.


Crazy, I flew C-17s out of Kuwait and got lazed, among other locations over there. I hated wearing those glasses at night until I got lazed, then I became a believer.


Got lazed coming out of Memphis a couple years ago. We got hit several times in succession. It was night time so we turned off all lights and made a course change.

www.airlinepilotforums.com...

You need a login for this site:

a total muppet who should get the electric chair

luckily it was a two crew a/c


Incidents of lasers being shone at aircraft are very much on the increase. We were getting about one report per month until we raised the profile and then the reporting rate doubled. The reports are about 50:50 UK (our base) and Europe, so it is not just a British malaise.

Industry advice is as follows:
1. If you notice a laser, don’t look at it. It is very tempting, but it will increase the chance of eye injury.
4. If any after-effects are felt, the crew member should seek specialist medical attention.


First recorded 'attack' by green laser in Abu Dhabi was reported by an Etihad crew in 2006 on approach to AUH.

www.pprune.org...


________________________
In the news:

Laser blinds passenger jet pilot
news.bbc.co.uk...

Laser put police chopper in peril
www.towerhamlets.gov.uk...

Laser beam 'dazzles' pilot preparing to land at airport
edinburghnews.scotsman.com...

Man charged after pointing laser pen at plane
www.dailyecho.co.uk...

Helicopter pilot's laser terror
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk...

Man jailed for shining laser at chopper
news.ninemsn.com.au...

Call to ban lasers after plane zapping
www.smh.com.au...

Pilots welcome jail for laser offender
www.abc.net.au...

`I dazzled police copter because I was so tired'
archive.thisiswiltshire.co.uk...

Qantas pilot dazzled by laser
www.theage.com.au...

Pilots fear blinding lasers

There is concern about the growing use of high-powered lasers, after a Qantas pilot had his eyesight slightly damaged as he was landing a plane in Darwin.

www.abc.net.au...

Oh, look, an actual USE for the Patriot act.

www.foxnews.com...

Man free on bail in laser incidents.
edition.cnn.com...

Laser injures Delta pilot's eye.
washingtontimes.com...

Laser beam injures eye of Delta pilot
deseretnews.com...

Pilots Want Laser Protection.
www.avweb.com...

Green laser sends teen to jail
www.myfoxphoenix.com...

=3.2.1

Here's a NOTAM at my nearest airport...

Melbourne ATIS at 10pmEST on 16APR

ATIS YMML S 161117
RWY: 27 FOR ARR. RWY 34 FOR DEP NE,
RWY 27 FOR ALL OTHER DEP
OPR INFO: CAUTION UNAUTHORISED LASER ACTIVITY NORTH EAST OF
AERODROME
WND: 330-030/8
MAX DW 5 KTS RWY 27
CLD: CAVOK
+ TMP: 8
+ QNH: 1020


CLEARLY, lasers ARE hitting pilots. They're in NOTAMS (Notice To Airmem), they're in the news, they're damaging eyesight, they're putting lives at risk.
__________

With a weak 5mw laser:



This is to people who are in charge of HUNDREDS of lives, both in the air and on the ground. I have no sympathy for the morons that do this... If I ever saw one... man... I'd steal it and light them on fire with there own laser. Or use a brick...

www.pangolin.com...

300mw HANDHELD laser.

uk.youtube.com...

FAA report:
www.faa.gov...

And a video from the air:
s52.photobucket.com...

www.pprune.org...

[edit on 20/8/2008 by C0bzz]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 07:37 AM
link   
Impressive post, kudos for that.

I can totally agree with the distraction point of view, I just can't see the whole blindness thing.

Ever tried holding a laser pen completely still and shining it at an object 40-50m away? Imagine trying to then keep it pointed at a planes cockpit while the plane is moving at high speed.

Like the video you posted of a laser from the air, look how much the beam is swinging about.

My guess is the guy got a new laser pen and wanted to see how good it was, shining it on the object furthest away from him which happened to be a plane. Totally stupid and immature thing to do but blinding the pilot?

At most he got 'lucky' and flashed it across the pilots face but I seriously doubt it would be anything more than a split second of bright light.


edit -

The images you posted said the pilots were exposed to a one second flash as handheld lasers wouldn't be held steady. They agree with it not being held steady but still one whole second?

Again after reviewing the images I see where we may be disagreeing.

When I see blindless I think damaging your eyesight, in the images you posted the laser flash would damage your nightvision somewhat in that your pupils would contract from the bright light. Similar to walking along a dark road and then getting a cars headlights in your face, you can't see as well for a while but it doesn't actually damage your eyes.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by cleggy88]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by cleggy88]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by TruthTellist
LOL. He probably thought he was fighting the chemtrailers!


hahahahahaha



Originally posted by _Phoenix_
But excuse me!? did this guy have a sniper rifle scope or something? How can anyone aim a laser into someone EYE on a moving object from really far away? It's almost impossible.


Nah, it is actually very easy. Here in Melbourne, Australia a few weeks back, we had intense fog, to the point where I could hear myself breathing outside because the fog absorbed ambient sound. I decided to pull out a demo LASER show system; 100mW/532nm, and project a static beam into the sky, by the time it had hit the clouds, the 'dot' was in fact half the size of a 747. So it would be easy to hit a moving target at that distance, but I do know that philosophically speaking light cannot turn corners... Into the cockpit! And blinded by reflection off cockpit equipment? LOL don't make me laugh!



Originally posted by AGENT_T

Wow!! Where to start..??


First off.. you don't need to be a laser programmer/engineer..(which I was.. industrial..not toys) to SELL them.

Furthermore I would suggest..OR NOT!!) next time you set one up one stage to disable the scanner motor and see what kind of effect a static beam would have on your eyes.

Ever been driving and looked at oncoming traffic's headlights and been blinded for a few seconds?

Next I'm guessing you have never attempted to fly a plane..

It's a reflective instinct to look when you see a flash out of the corner of your eye..Warning lights maybe!!..
It would be almost certain that the pilot's eyes would be drawn to an outside light..The co-pilot is primarily concerned with assisting with the instrumentation..his wouldn't't probably.


[edit on 19-8-2008 by AGENT_T]


I can tell you where to start.

Whether industrial or 'toys', the technology is common, and although one doesn't't need some bureaucratic certificate to sells LASER show systems, obviously one would know about them if they did own a business that specializes with them?

You assumption that I was looking at LASER beam being scanned is wrong, my statement of looking into LASER's was in reference to static beams.

I studied Diploma in Aviation, under the Australian College of Aviation. What does your assumption tell you with that?

Yes it is an instinct, but obviously when the kid pushed the button it wasn't't immediately on the plane, and the pilots could have saw it coming and not looked at it? Der?

Your ultimate statement concluded my point; the headlights... Yes, blinded for a FEW SECONDS!!! Wow, the plane is gonna crash now!

- Thanks



Originally posted by rjmelter

2 Seconds max? Can I see your license in Laser technology or could you videotape it for us?



Not possible. Don't have/need one.



Originally posted by BlasteR

I WOULD NOT want to get beamed in the eye with something like this..
This one has a class 3R laser



LOL... 3R... Look into it for a split moment if you want out of curiosity, your fine. Others will disagree with this, but only because they want to appear more 'experienced' than I. LOL!



C0bzz

I CBF responding to everything else you've said because I don't believe you have had any experience with LASER's, but I thought I would teach you something... That photo of the plane cockpit and green LASER is misleading. That beam is being projected by someone standing in front of the plane, not kilometers away.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:56 AM
link   
reply to post by Nikolas
 


Thats funny... However strong the laser was... the farther back you are the bigger the beam is on the other end. at that distance im pretty sure the beam would have been about the sizer of the entire window... aiming it wouldn't be a problem really...

You dont need a license to have an oppinion but where did the 2 seconds max come from? I've been blinded by a laser before and it was the longest 2 seconds apparently. Even my watch must have got it wrong. It takes about 8 seconds for the eyes to adjust. Up to 20 seconds after that there is still the ghost image on your eyes of the shape of the bright image... soo... Expert please provide where your 2 seconds came from.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:40 AM
link   
Ya know, I was just remembering back about 5 years ago, we have a casino across from the airport here and they used to have laser light shows at night. It was fantastic to see the beams flashing across the sky. I didn't hear any complaints than about planes coming in and getting laser blasted even though the many colored beams danced across the night sky, at the airport.

I live about 3 miles from the casino and airport and it was a show to see when those laser beams cut across the black sky and hit clouds. Come to think about this thread now, I have to say commercial pilots screw up and kill passengers without anyone laser blasting the plane. Ya, pilot error, the skies are filled with them. So the cops and media are making a big stink about and when that flashes across the TV screen, you now have advertised a new fad. Copy cat laser destroyers of commercial planes.

All you critical thinkers spouting off how you would do this and that or the punishment the authorities should meat out to anyone doing this should get serious. I wanna read laser awareness rather than back slapping, crowd pleaser tough guy rebuttals.

Unless they outlaw lasers all together, this will happen. People with lasers, like the cops who use it, will point the thing just to see it reflect. I know I do with my laser pen. I even have a laser show device that flashes laser designs all over the side of my house. What if that tips over and lasers the sky, will I be arrested for an accidental laser show pointed to the sky if a pilot looks down and goes oooohhh, ahhh my eyes.

Maybe we need to start blowing UFOs out of the skies for blinding pilots too.

All hype.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:47 AM
link   
reply to post by Peepers
 


Thats a good point peeper...

People will do what they want with their toys. But he did this to 2 people. He apparently wanted to see someone crash.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:57 AM
link   
Well now since its a big story I wonder how many copycats it will inspire, they should not even gave the plot of the story away and kept it under wraps because kids and terror groups would love to use it. Sometimes its best not inspiring, since all these terror plots I have learned how to make a nail bomb, not like I ever thought about it, but THE SUN news paper vertually showed how to create one, that's just as bad as being caught wanting to conspire.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by The time lord]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:15 PM
link   
How come we don't read or hear news about lasers pointed at the drivers of automobiles or commercial trucks that can kill many people at a time if crashed or motorcyclist. Why is this only being broadcast about planes and aircraft. Maybe thats what neo/nazi con homeland security wants to keep the masses inflamed and scared and wanting laws to make everything illegal so when the time finally comes we can no longer think for ourselves and go about business like we did when life was good.

Step back and look at 'these things" and you will see what "they" are doing.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Peepers

All you critical thinkers spouting off how you would do this and that or the punishment the authorities should meat out to anyone doing this should get serious. I wanna read laser awareness rather than back slapping, crowd pleaser tough guy rebuttals.




have you seen the YT video posted by C0bzz, with the guy lighting his cig and igniting candles with his laser pointer?

tell me how many ms you think are safe at this power level. as said before, rapidly moving beams are inherently less dangerous than someone trying to keep it on the plane, head-on, which makes for a steady target.

an eye can be ruined within an instant, most of the time it does not happen, but it's perfectly possible and it happens when people think their ignorance is somehow laser-proof, which of course it isn't.

www.nationalpost.com... (courtesy of C0bzz)

When you exceed a certain dose, it's over, plain and simple, to argue otherwise is akin to claiming that throwing softballs at someone is comparable to using a BB pellet, a .22lr or a 30-06, after all it's astronomically unlikely to get a hit at 'these ranges'.

total lunacy! increase power levels 100 fold and it's still the same? pellet gun vs-.30-06? all the same? are you serious?


Originally posted by Peepers
How come we don't read or hear news about lasers pointed at the drivers of automobiles or commercial trucks that can kill many people at a time if crashed or motorcyclist.


that's imho self-explanatory, because it's lower profile, like it or not. scale. it ain't that hard a concept, is it? besides, it does happen and it's even in the news.

www.gazette-news.co.uk...

and

www.news.com.au...

[edit on 2008.8.20 by Long Lance]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nikolas
Your ultimate statement concluded my point; the headlights... Yes, blinded for a FEW SECONDS!!! Wow, the plane is gonna crash now! .


Which is why control would be handed over to the co-pilot.. To PREVENT crashing..
An ILS is not an Auto-pilot you know..it kinda requires your eyes on the display and constant small adjustments..it can take you down to the inner marker (if you can see it)but it's still up to the pilot and his VISIBILITY to safely land the plane..Compensate for crosswindwind/adjust runway alignment.

You ever set foot in a cockpit?noticed the panels/guages/controls/switches of a commercial Jet??
There's a VERY good reason why Stevie Wonder doesn't have a pilot's license.


OK ..you say you have an aviation diploma too..!!! ..(after you readily dismiss the relevance of an engineering one) And you STILL don't get it??????


AND! You spend your spare time looking into static stage lasers??(What no Scanner-heads?..Can anyone say pointless?)..
Sounds like fun..but NOTHING,ZERO,NADA..like a laser pointer..

And!!! ..If you try telling me you have a static stage laser of more than 100mw(Your own words.. 'quality system' ) focussed to a 'laser-pointer-esque' beam of 3-5 mm...Which you regularly look into..WITHOUT scanner heads oscillating at thousand of times per second
..Then I'm afraid I'm going to have to take the smell test on that..

(I think I smell a dodgy 'roo on the barby..
)

(EDIT.. TO CLARIFY..)
I'm outta this pointless debate with you after this post....It's turning into a piddling contest..
6 years of mindnumbingly dull programming of Chicago laser systems/ESI 44 laser trimmers..
VS
Someone who sells pretty lights..


There's a reason why these thing come with a warning NOT to shine in peoples eyes and moving vehicles..
If they get caught then best of luck trying to come up with a dumbass excuse for their dumbass actions..

[edit on 20-8-2008 by AGENT_T]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:07 PM
link   
Sometimes its best not telling how certain things happen, I believe it only makes a problem worse with increased knowledge.

But I have to say after reading this post making the comment I just did and switching ATS off and switch on the TV, I hear a Plane crash just happenned off the Madrid runway in spain and 140people feared dead.
How flipping crazy is that?



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by The time lord
But I have to say after reading this post making the comment I just did and switching ATS off and switch on the TV, I hear a Plane crash just happenned off the Madrid runway in spain and 140people feared dead.
How flipping crazy is that?


Yeah it's sad
.
Seems to be a mech/maintenance issue.

Now try to compare your emotions from that news..and say it had been caused by a dumb chav with a cheap toy and no brain to get a hobby/life...
How different do you think you'd feel.?



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:16 PM
link   
AGENT_T, its not a matter of dismissing... Its a matter of me knowing most people here haven't a clue therfor pointless wasting my time with people who seem to be experienced in every field, and have an answer for everything, because they read wikipedia and watch YouTube video's.

- Thanks

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Nikolas]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:19 PM
link   
Of course its worse if any plane is caused to come down how ever deliberate. But is the pilot blind or was he just temporily blinded?


My quote off the other post about Madrid.

Was reading another post in breaking news forum about a kid pointing Lazer at a plane and blinding the Pilot, and then i switch ATS off and watch TV only to hear about what has happened about Madrid. I feel freaked by it like some sign, I have to admit ATS does have its spooky side when it comes to coincidences with masses of minds working together like one energy and connections. Many people have written here about this one conciousness thing and have experienced it with ATS since all minds are trying to figure out the beyond.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by The time lord
But is the pilot blind or was he just temporily blinded?


Temporarily..as with all 'toy laser'..incidents 5- 20mw type.

But translating the temporary blindness into an approaching aircraft dropping at 10-20 fps at 150 mph.. if you get blinded for 5 seconds.. that's 100ft you are in deep crap at a crucial time.


Planes are basically flying coke tins full of fuel waiting for a spark..


[edit on 20-8-2008 by AGENT_T]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 01:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by AGENT_T
I'm outta this one after this post....


?

-

The plane wasen't at a crucial time.
Stop trying to divert your lack of knowledge by telling me things I knew when you where 8 years old.

- Thanks


This will be my last post in this thread.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:12 PM
link   
Well folks,anyway,this is purely circumstantial now since the initial reports were exaggerated/incorrect

update


“As the pilot came in for the final approach the co-pilot noticed a flash at the side of the plane,” she said.

“They informed air traffic control because seeing a flash of light like that is not normal. They will now file an air safety report.”

She said stories that the co-pilot had to land the plane because the pilot was blinded by the laser were not true.


He apparently shone it at the plane..then another aircraft..which happened to be a cop-chopper.


So that leaves things a little different..
Incorrect report..but the offender was obviously intending on hanging around trying to distract more than one aircraft.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join