If you think that God is omnipotent, then do not deny evil from it!

Originally posted by Murangelo
reply to post by v01i0

 

Evil cannot be defined as evil unless you have a standard by which to compare it with. Just as a thermometer measures the heat in water, so does the Bible define good and evil. How? By telling us the will of God. Anything that is against His will, is evil. So how can God be evil? IMPOSSIBLE. His will is Perfect, Just and Holy.

God created us with free will, but not doing "his will" will result in death. Or maybe eternal torture as some people say.
It is so hard to do his will everyday but for me it is already too late, I've already sinned when I was a little boy, unaware about the deadly consquence of my acts. Now only death or torture awaits me...

And here I'm waiting for my judgement. In fear for my "God given free will" which can bring me to another act of sin in a short moment of inattention.

reply to post by Safandjaro

God created us with free will, but not doing "his will" will result in death. Or maybe eternal torture as some people say.
It is so hard to do his will everyday but for me it is already too late, I've already sinned when I was a little boy, unaware about the deadly consquence of my acts. Now only death or torture awaits me...

And here I'm waiting for my judgement. In fear for my "God given free will" which can bring me to another act of sin in a short moment of inattention.

What you need to keep in mind is that it was Adam who was created with free will, not you.
They made a choice and had a bad reaction from gaining knowledge of evil, from the tree they were warned not to eat from.
Our ancient ancestors fell under the power of evil and all their descendants are born under that same evil.
You can become a new creation by being born again, and so find relief from that penalty that you find your self under.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Safandjaro

 

God created us with free will, but not doing "his will" will result in death. Or maybe eternal torture as some people say.
It is so hard to do his will everyday but for me it is already too late, I've already sinned when I was a little boy, unaware about the deadly consquence of my acts. Now only death or torture awaits me...

And here I'm waiting for my judgement. In fear for my "God given free will" which can bring me to another act of sin in a short moment of inattention.

What you need to keep in mind is that it was Adam who was created with free will, not you.
They made a choice and had a bad reaction from gaining knowledge of evil, from the tree they were warned not to eat from.
Our ancient ancestors fell under the power of evil and all their descendants are born under that same evil.
You can become a new creation by being born again, and so find relief from that penalty that you find your self under.

Ehm the bibel dont say we fell under the power of evil but the power of knowlage and sin. Some people say that it was the devil who tricked Eve to take the fruit from the tree. But God talkes about a snake not the devil. God always say if he is talking about the a beast, a forign God or the devil.

God condemed the snake by the way. To eat dust and crawl on its belly for ever.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Safandjaro

 

What you need to keep in mind is that it was Adam who was created with free will, not you.
They made a choice and had a bad reaction from gaining knowledge of evil, from the tree they were warned not to eat from.
Our ancient ancestors fell under the power of evil and all their descendants are born under that same evil.
You can become a new creation by being born again, and so find relief from that penalty that you find your self under.

But Why didn't God fixed this with Adam, after thousands of years and billions of lost people we are facing the same choice as Adam and have to believe in some unverifyable act of Jesus while being deceived by legions of well organised demons working on our "free will" not to believe this.

We "children of God" are the victims of some stupid war between God and satan. Like here on earth innocent inhabitants are always the victims of the wars between the men of power.

There will be evil in every powerstructure and God's heaven is no exception which is proven by his conflict with satan.

reply to post by pause4thought

Quite why you want to make God the author of evil escapes me.

If the God of the Bible exists then my opinion is that he created everything!

This includes every single emotion,feeling,compulsion,act a human being can experience,whether good or bad.

I do not believe that God made trillions and trillions of creations,yet not the one creation that has had the most destructive effect on his "beloved humans."

Can your God really be all powerful if he couldn't stop a force like Evil from being created?






[edit on 22-8-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by Safandjaro

But Why didn't God fixed this with Adam, after thousands of years and billions of lost people we are facing the same choice as Adam and have to believe in some unverifyable act of Jesus while being deceived by legions of well organised demons working on our "free will" not to believe this.

We "children of God" are the victims of some stupid war between God and satan. Like here on earth innocent inhabitants are always the victims of the wars between the men of power.

There will be evil in every powerstructure and God's heaven is no exception which is proven by his conflict with satan.

The only way to “fix” it may have been to kill them and start over. It may not seem to be very compassionate for God to allow people to go on suffering under the repression of a powerful force of evil.
I was brought up in a religion that would have you believe in this war between Satan and God. I have gotten to where I do not believe it in a literal sense. The nations that Israel was surrounded by had religions that had greater and lesser gods that were in conflict with each other. Israel stuck to, or tried, a belief in one god. I do not think there are two conflicting kingdoms vying for dominance, just a fallen world.
The predominant form of evil that manifests itself in man is rebelliousness. A good story is about the king, Ahab of Israel.
He rebelled against the advice of God to not get in the way of the Egyptian King who was passing by his hill kingdom in order to deal with a problem in his northern Egyptian territory. In this case Ahab’s prophets gave him what he wanted to hear. In the Bible, it tells a story told by God’s true prophet, that a lying spirit was allowed to trick the king’s prophets into causing Ahab’s downfall.
Ahab did not need much help going against God and did not change his mind, even after hearing the right advice, a second time. He went into battle, anyway, and was killed. Did God kill him or was it Satan? I think his rebellion against God killed him.
You seem to be stuck on the idea of free will. If you did choose to accept this unverifiable system of salvation, would that choice have come from your own human nature? Or would it just be you not rebelling against God’s spirit telling you it is real? This is a gift to you to help you. God or Satan does not need to give you a little whisper in your ear to persuade you to reject it. That is already built into your nature.
So, you need to become your own version of Satan in order to not be ultimately saved. It may seem to be acting out a form of willfulness or it could be something you have no control over. Ten virgins were waiting for the groom to show up at the marriage so they could light his way. Five were wise and five were foolish. Was it the choice of the five to be foolish?
Jesus said, "In my Father’s house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you." What was it that would have been so important, that Jesus would have been compelled to tell his disciples, if it was true? Where was this bad place where the foolish virgins had to go? Where they already were.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by jmdewey60]

God can do anything He wants to.

Because he is good he does not want to do evil.


Is that clear enough?

reply to post by jakyll

I do not believe that God made trillions and trillions of creations,yet not the one creation that has had the most destructive effect on his "beloved humans."

Can your God really be all powerful if he couldn't stop a force like Evil from being created?

OK jakyll, I follow your line of thinking.

But evil was never "created". Evil is the absence of goodness. That is why it is equated with darkness, the absence of light.

God created light. He permitted darkness to occur.

God is by nature a being of perfect moral purity. He permitted rebellion to occur, first in Heaven, then on earth. The result could not be clearer: choosing to remain at enmity with God equates to choosing darkness, in every sense. Choosing to respond to God's blood-bought offer of reconciliation equates to choosing light, in every sense.

Both choices determine the eternal state of each of us according to the only person who ever lived in this world who was untainted by darkness.

God bless.

I am sorry, but it still puzzles me where do people get their knowledge of God? Not from 1st hand experience it seems. I reluctantly quoted from bible or any other "holy writing", because it is certainty for me, that if something is everything it must also be evil, no matter if the evil is merely an subjective standpoint in judging action. I know there is no sentence in bible saying exactly this, yet in my heart I know it to be true.

Best regards,

-v

reply to post by v01i0


Hi v01i0

I can see your logic too. How do you react to the explanation in my previous post?

I am sorry, but it still puzzles me where do people get their knowledge of God?

If only more people asked such questions. There really is more to life than leisure & entertainment, etc.

I grew up with no real concept of God to speak of. Just a word, really.

When I first started hearing about what happened in the Gospels it was all very foreign. But one thing grabbed my attention. Christ himself. He claimed to be the Son of God. If true, there must be a God. The more I studied him, the more uncomfortable I became that my presuppositions were well-founded.

After about three years of intense study I found my doubts had been overcome. Someone who was completely unreligious (and violent, and foul-mouthed) finding himself a believer. Thus began a lot of struggles, but I had no choice. I couldn't help believing, no matter how awkward it felt.

I could write a lot more, but I hope that gives you an idea. All I will add is that if there is a God who designed and made it all, including us, he must jolly-well be intelligent enough to find a way of revealing himself to us.

I say that he has.

If you think that God is omnipotent, then do not deny evil from it!

GOD / or its "OMNIPOTENT" itsself is everything we are the one which cannot deal with the evil .....if we stop judging the EVIL won`t have a chance any longer

Originally posted by v01i0

I am sorry, but it still puzzles me where do people get their knowledge of God?

God gives people knowledge of Himself, it is called revelation knowledge.

Revelation knowledge divides into three categories, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits.

It can be explained but it can't be understood by the use ro reason and logic alone, it mus be experienced to be known of, because it is spiritual.

Spiritual things can only be ascertained, they can not be analyzed.

Understanding spiritual things like revelation knowledge was how I was able to answer the OP's question.

God is in an objective position to us.

If you put yourself figuratively in the position of God, that is look at yourself and life as best you can from His point of view which is, all powerful, all knowing, everywhere present, and eternal among other things, then you can see that we are not alive to God, we are born into this world dead.

It is like how we understand rocks or dirt to be.

From our point of view we don't see dirt or rocks as being alive, so how can what we do to the sand or gravel be evil or good?

Revelation knowledge unveils what is real from the inside out, it is objective, whereas senses knowledge is discovered from the outside in by our five senses, it is subjective.

Every single person "KNOWS" of God, it is impossible not to "KNOW" there is a God.

At a certain level of consciousness it is literally impossible not to "KNOW" there is a God, all we can do is decide whether or not to believe what we "KNOW" to be true.

This is why we are all without excuse as it says in the bible.

Romans 1:17 - 20 fractional, expanded

The just live by the law of faith. God's wrath is ever being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth by their wrongdoing, because the knowledge of God may be seen in them, God Himself having shown it to them. For from the first making of the world, those things of God which the eye is unable to see, that is, His eternal power and existence, are fully made clear, manifest in them, God Himself having shown it to them, so that they are without excuse.

End;

Most people do not believe and never will, they only pretend, no matter what they say about God unless you see the physical evidence of signs, miracles, and wonders, which prove that God is with them and in them, then they are only pretending to believe God.

It is simple really, we all know what it would mean if we were to believe God, that is why we lie to ourselves.

We don't want to suffer persecution or hardship in this life for the sake of the truth, so we suppress the truth by lying to ourselves and others, usually saying we do believe when we know we don't.

That is where religion comes from, it is mostly pretend worship.

People who simply say they don't believe, are more honest in my opinion than religious people who say they do believe but have no power in their life to prove it, because they are pretending to be something they are not.

Just because someone calls themselves something religious like a Christian or a man of God, it does not mean they are a believer.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I feel that your 'cold' argument does not apply. Saying that something is 'hot' or 'cold' is a perception, not a reality. I could just as eaisly state the inverse, that heat does not exist. It is just an absence of coldness.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I feel that your 'cold' argument does not apply. Saying that something is 'hot' or 'cold' is a perception, not a reality. I could just as eaisly state the inverse, that heat does not exist. It is just an absence of coldness.

You're 100% wrong, "heat" is generated my measurable energy. Heat = energy. "Cold" on the other hand is what happens when heat/energy is removed.

100 degrees F, 0 degrees F, and -100 degrees F are ALL measurements of heat, or how much heat is in the air. "Cold" is what we call this phenomena. "Cold" doesn't exist, it's a measurement of heat.

I am sorry, but it still puzzles me where do people get their knowledge of God?

The Word of God.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Originally posted by spy66God condemed the snake by the way. To eat dust and crawl on its belly for ever.

This is bit offtopic, but one could ask what the snake did before that? Walked? OK I hope. It was supposed to cheer up the atmosphere.

reply to post by pause4thought

Originally posted by pause4thought
How do you react to the explanation in my previous post?

I am not sure to which post and which explanation you refered. But if you meant that evil is part of the plan, I couldn't but agree.

reply to post by newday

I can see where you are coming from. Basically I agree about what you stated. Cuz I personally "feel" that God is everything (even evil sometimes, from our viewpoint of course - I once more point it has been agreed that evil is merely an opinion) and thence everything I see is from God. Basically I am seeing it all the time, in every creature and object.

I have to quote myself because you people left a crucial part of my conception out of your quotes:

Originally posted by v01i0
I am sorry, but it still puzzles me where do people get their knowledge of God? Not from 1st hand experience it seems.

I have to put the emphasis on the 1st hand experience. How many of you so called "believers" (meaning a person that views some specific religion as truth), have had personal experiences of God? By personal experience I mean very empirical experience, including that you have analyzed that experience in the light of your own knowledge?

Below, is an example of second hand experience, or so called indoctrination. You don't have experience, you just believe what other people say:

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The Word of God.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

That wasn't a perfect example as I know that NOTurTypical has experiences of own, but the quote just fitted as an example, sorry about that NTT!

So I base my belief in God in personal experiences, not into some indoctrination. Of course I had read through the most popular 'religious' sacred texts (from east to west), and quite many unpopular or even 'occult' texts - but I did that not because I wanted to believe, but because I wanted to refer my own experiences to others.

In my own experience, God is evil because he is everything. But - once again! - evil is not universal conception, but merely an opinion! In reality, God is not evil, but perfect in just. And if being evil fits into Gods plans, it is evil, simple as that. Sounds conflicting? Well maybe it logically is, but I threw the logics away long time ago. Logic is only for robots and computers, not for humans

Anyway, all the best and be nice to each others!

-v

[edit on 23-8-2008 by v01i0]

Well i think we are ages to late to Cry about this. We cant devell on the past it will not help. Whats done is done.

And ouer future is already written,so there is not much we can do about that either.

Originally posted by spy66
And ouer future is already written,so there is not much we can do about that either.

Well, you can pick your side. You can pick whom you will worship.

Originally posted by newday

If you can would you write a complete thought for me to read without taking words out of context so you can make them mean whatever you like.

I quoted them from the same thread pal, anyone can see what context they are in as your post was right above mine. Care to show us what you are talking about. You see I didn't really see any context in your post

I would like to talk to you but you need to try and have whole thoughts and put them in complete statements so I can read them and get some idea of what you actually think about this subject.

ok

You seem to be upset with the idea that God communicates His will to people.

Well I dont know exactly I am still researching this kind of thing but pause 4 thought makes the most sense out of all the posts ive read in here

But it is hard to tell what you are saying when you write in fragments.

Look, I get it that you enjoy picking out a flaw in my post and I get it that you like repeating it what four or five times in this post now?

So I hope I am making myself perfectly clear when I tell you that it is for that reason I have no interest in anything you have to say anymore.

Is that clear and comprehensive enough for you?