McCain vs Obama on the Space Programs

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posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


And if you had actually read my previous posts - you'd see that it is ALREADY delayed for 5 years.



Date: August 12 2008

NASA’s Constellation has a hiccup: First flight delayed to 2014




A substantial problem for NASA will be the gap between the retirement of the current Shuttles and the availability of the new launchers and crew vehicles. At this time, NASA plans on retiring the shuttles by 2010, but the ASAP believes that NASA will face some tough choices on how to bridge a four-year gap until Constellation kicks in. The ASAP said that NASA will either have to rely on Russian spacecraft for its missions, extend the Shuttle program or accelerate the development of the Ares launch vehicle (and Orion crew vehicle.)
Source of the article

and

is found in this post within this thread.

That gap exists CURRENTLY. It has nothing to do with Obama's plan. Obama's plan isnt in place yet.

Not to mention that his plan has changed, but his plan was never the cause of the things people accuse it of.

They play off of his plan because it is news, and they don't tell you that the constellation program is already in trouble DUE TO the current administration.


As i said. Obama should do more, and he has proposed doing more. Is it enough? No. But its more than any other main candidate is offering.





[edit on 8/20/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]




posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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I like the way you like to change your posts after you completely disrepect another member, but I won't even go there. FYI, I read the entire thread before I posted.

Obama's plan was released in 2007. At that time, the project was not delayed five years. His plan was to divert the funding to education. It's right there detailed in the document and it's plastered all over the internet.

Now, 10 months later, his plan has changed. I'm not even going to try to pin the flip-flop term on this because frankly I grow tired of it being slapped on everyone everytime they change their mind.

The fact is that Obama did in fact plan to divert funding from NASA to education. For you to say that he never said this is a distortion of reality.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


*sigh*

If the current funding for the constellation program is 460 million dollars


and obama's original plan of which you speak, on page 15, proposes 500 million dollars and anything over that amount goes to education

then how can you in all the realms of logical interpretation - find that obama is making "cuts"?

since when does 460 million > 500 million?

Yes. He has changed his stance. Why? Well - you'll have to ask him that.
But the stance is changed.


And yes i changed my post - so what?
In all of 15 seconds i was able to find the resources for you to look at so that you can make the proper assumption.

but it seems.....thats not going to happen.
Nothing in the world that any democrat will ever do can convince you otherwise. So honestly - im not going to try.

I want to discuss the space program.
I want to discuss what obama AND mccain have to offer.

I"ve put my chips on the table and ante'd up. Im waiting on someone else to set down and play.



I like the way you like to change your posts after you completely disrepect another member, but I won't even go there. FYI, I read the entire thread before I posted.

1.) It wasnt disrespectful
2.) "i wont even go there." you just did...... :shk:

[edit on 8/20/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Actually, Obama's original plan doesn't give any dollar amounts relating to the space program on page 15. It says that constellation will be delayed five years to pay for his education package. That certainly sounds like a diversion of funds to me.

It's kind of a moot point since his stance has changed now. However, it sure would be nice to see you admit that you were wrong for once. I fail to see how you can take "The early education plan will be paid for by delaying the NASA constellation program for five years" to be anything other then a diversion of funds.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
What is there to talk about?
You are an OBAMA follower, who is not interested in debating the subject

What is there to debate? Just pull up their voting records in the Senate and tell us how many times Obama has already voted to increase the budget vs how many times McCain has already voted to increase the budget. Perhaps that will give you an idea of how they will vote in the future.



pretty bold assumption on my character seeing as how you have never, once, tried debating it.


Debating what? Your character?



Try contributing to the quality of the forums for a change.

Does blind obedience qualify as contributing to the quality of forums around here?



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 



Actually, Obama's original plan doesn't give any dollar amounts relating to the space program on page 15. It says that constellation will be delayed five years to pay for his education package. That certainly sounds like a diversion of funds to me.


Yes it did. The original plan talked about leaving in place 500 million dollars for the program, and the excess would go to education.

I'm sorry that you can't admit it - but it is true.
I've laid it all out before you - all you have to do is look



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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Please do me this favor and read the link I provided to his original plan. Show me where on page 15, as you indicated, that it references a specific dollar amount to the space program. I have the document right in front of me and there is only ONE number on that page and it has nothing to do with the space program.

Edit: I'll do the work for you. Here's a scan of page 15.



[edit on 20-8-2008 by BlueTriangle]



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


It appears as if you are correct. The sources i was using said it was the original document.

You have my apologies


His original original plan never outlined any specific dollar amounts.

Now i will ask you for your interpretation of the 5 year gap

if it exists today, before anything Obama plan(s)(ned) to do - what would the difference be?

What i mean is - as i even read the original document - it appears to me that the only difference between the two is one doesnt say how much funding - and the other does specifically point out how much funding


basically - the funding is the same in this original document as it is today.

You were right in the approach that i was looking at the wrong document.

But how am i wrong by saying Obama isnt proposing budget cuts?
The gap existed long before the Obama plan...



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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I wasn't commenting on his current plan. What threw me was your comment that he NEVER called for a budget cut and that the poster who said such a thing was a liar until proof was provided. I simply provided that proof.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


My argument still is on the table that it was not a budget cut

Both plans call for a 5 year gap in the constellation program

there is currently a 5 year gap in the constellation program

so if anything - you can say he's doing nothing to improve upon it.

He's not doing anything to it that has not already been done.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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*SIGH*

The 5 year delay was just announced. The plan was released 10 months ago. You could say that the end effect was the same...and I guess you are. That doesn't change the fact that 10 months ago he planned a budget cut.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


*SIGH*

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

10 months ago there was much less funding than there is today. It is only until recently that they were granted an increase in funding up to 460 million.

They asked for a lot more - and 460 million is all they got

when they were able to assess how much funding they would recieve, they were able to say "there will be a 5 year gap"

its not a funding cut.
period.

is it the right thing to do?
Well - you could argue that education is just as important, afterall, don't want to send dumbies into space.

But at the same time - Obama should be doing more, both then AND now.

BUT

He's still proposes (then AND now) to do more than any other main candidate has talked about.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 



Yes. He has changed his stance. Why? Well - you'll have to ask him that.


Maybe this will explain why Andrew. Obama said


I’m not going to make a proposal unless I know how to pay for it, and in one of our earlier proposals, we had looked at extending the Constellation program longer, and stretching it out so that we could take some of that money to pay for education programs.

In consultation with space community here in Orlando and around the country, my conclusion is that we have to have that in place to have a transition from the space shuttle to the next generation of space exploration.


source

From what I read He was going to use money from NASA to fund his education proposal and extend the Constellation program longer than what is already on the books. After talking with people in the field he decided otherwise.

This is typical of politicians. They tend to throw out their proposals before talking with the experts. This leads to those flip flopping accusations when in reality it is a change of opinion due to consultation with the experts.



posted on Aug, 20 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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Well, assuming we can verify that quote, that's evidence right out of the horse's mouth that there was a plan to pull money out of the NASA budget.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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How about the $18 billon for education Obama wanted from delaying the space program by five years to pay for education or is he Flip-floping again? Did you forget that? KSC Worker.



posted on Oct, 17 2008 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by BlueTriangle
 


On the other hand, in the next portion of the interview Obama says:


I've now been working with Bill Nelson, John Glenn -- they've helped to unveil our plan. It has gotten strong reviews from the space community, and in light of what's happening in Russia, we have to start thinking about whether or not adding some additional flights on the space shuttle are going to be necessary in order to use the space lab -- the space station -- because, frankly right now, we don't know what our relationship is going to be."





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