FOX News caught using NLP Neuro-linguistic programming

reply to post by netron


There's no reason to pin NLP on Obama as if he is somehow using it alone here.. NLP has been a widespread tactic in politics for decades (centuries?). President Bush was elected and reelected. You're telling me NLP had nothing to do with that either? EVERYONE in politics uses NLP in some form or another. Even if they don't realize it themselves.

-ChriS

reply to post by robwerden


You need not fear NLP unless you believe it works. By spreading hysteria over Fox News "use" of NLP, you are reinforcing the idea that NLP actually does anything at all. Has this actually been proven? By anyone who doesn't sell or practice NLP?

Consider who sells NLP? The $10K weekend seminars. The self-help audio books you listen to while you sleep. The motivational books that promise you untold success if you but read them.

You can't get success by reading a book. Any book that claims so has a liar for an author. You can't "learn while you sleep" or worse yet learn while your driving (you might get in a car accident while distracted!). If you honestly pay someone $10,000 to teach you how be successful over the weekend, did it ever occur to that if you could con people into paying you $10K to listen to recite platitudes and tautologies, you could live like a king on their money?

Seriously... these are the tools and products of con artists. It's not that they don't work at all... (Notice NPL doesn't work at all on the professor. He's not "programmed" by a single use of their so-called use of NLP.) but their power comes from the confidence in believing in them. If you look confident, even ooze confidence like a snake, people tend to believe what you say and find it intimidating to argue with you because you seem so sure of yourself.

But tools like NLP are the bread and butter of motivational speakers. They take your money; you attend the seminar; they tear you down and build you up, make you feel like a king at the end; and you go back to work.

If work goes any better after the seminar, obviously it was all due to the power of NLP! After all, you paid $10,000 to go to that stupid seminar!

If work goes no better or worse yet gets even worse, well then obviously you didn't pay attention in the seminar or you didn't apply its techniques properly! Better sign up for another seminar!!

The third alternative is less seductive: that NLP is just self-help bull# and you should have saved your money, worked harder during work hours at your job, and done something fun with your weekend instead sitting in a metal chair surrounded by other gullible social climbers.

The tactics I see FOX News using are just old high school debate tricks. Logical fallacies from any basic philosophy or rhetoric book. In plain English, they try to put words in your mouth.

You know the old saw: never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity. This is FOX News! They're just not that smart!

reply to post by BlasteR


Obama ca'nt speak without a prompter like most canidates. I've never seen him use any NLP, he just has a nice smile and nice voice, and shouts Change and Hope all the time (never says that the changes that he's hoping for are good). That's really the only thing that draw people to him, also all the media hype about him, not really him stance on political issues.

-Jimmy

"Uh... Obama is hardly a true socialist.

We are all being manipulated if you want to get philosophical... Are you saying there is nothing to the links the OP provided? You can't see what's going on there even though a narrator is explaining every bit of it (NLP)? I'm not bashing FOX news only... other news networks do it also... "

Scramjet - I was not saying that NLP does not exist. I've been suckered by it myself. Years ago I was tricked into buying a vacuum/carpet cleaner because the guy had me feeling like I was a lotto winner. Shortly after, I realized that I had been duped into paying way too much for a damn vacuum that I could have bought at Wal-Mart for 1/4 the cost.
I just felt compelled to respond to the several people who seemed to be implying that this is solely a republican tactic and point out their blind hypocrisy - and yes I do believe the republicans do it too.
Also, maybe Obama is not a "true socialist", but his desire to have the country supply everyone with medical insurance and to pay for the stupid decisions of people and lending institutions and reditribution of wealth to the lazy just to name a few of his socialized ideas is quite a step toward socialism. Perhaps it would be more accurate to call it communism since communism is a "political theory favoring collectivism in a classless society". So tax the people who are successful to feed the lazy. When this happens, hopefully "Atlas" will shrug.

"I think some of you are missing the point and some of you have made it a left v. right discussion. This thread contains a discussion about whether or not our subconscious is deliberately manipulated by the "powers that be" (be they left or right ). It should really raise awareness and whip up discussion. Whether Obama uses 'it' more than McCain is neither here nor there.

The question really is whether or not we are masters of our own minds and choices. Would you know if you are not? If you think you know, are you sure?"

Lebowski - If you are referring to me, see my above post. I have not missed the point nor do I doubt that NLP works on some people to some degree. I was merely replying to the usual cacophony of "the evil right wing conspiracy" by pointing out the very obvious if you have not been blinded to it. This country, suffering the effects of NLP, just might elect an inexperienced paper doll into the oval office.

Originally posted by tallcool1
"
Lebowski - If you are referring to me, see my above post. I have not missed the point nor do I doubt that NLP works on some people to some degree. I was merely replying to the usual cacophony of "the evil right wing conspiracy" by pointing out the very obvious if you have not been blinded to it. This country, suffering the effects of NLP, just might elect an inexperienced paper doll into the oval office.

Hey, if the shoe fits... . Seriously though... Regarding your claim that you are pointing out the obvious: It may be obvious to you but it is an opinion... a belief. Not fact.

"You can't prove you're anything but a poser, I asked for proof and you danced around and didn't show me any.

Like I said before, put up or shut up."

JimmyJB - I know this wasn't said to me, but wow. Is this the pot calling the kettle black. You keep making all of these chest pounding claims about yourself with no proof whatsoever such as the very next statements after the above:

" It's been proven on here several times NLP is real, I too know thing or two about the news business, I have a friend that works for the news, he works behind the scenes (not in the sound or video), he does the thing where they matrix the different video footage together (forgot what it's called), my proof that I know him is that his name is Shane Combs, he works at KAUZ news channel 6 in Wichita Falls TX.

I also know about movie production too, I used to do digital special effects for independant film (SkyLine Pictures in Wichita Falls TX). So i know how fast things are done and the kind of time people have.

Do'nt spin me, I know more about this than you do, so put up or shut up.

NLP is real, it's been proven that the news does it, go sulk in your corner."

I can make all kinds of claims about myself too and name a local news reporter and claim to know him, but that is in no way proof. You claim to have this vast experience in film production, know people in the entertainment industry who are more knowledgeable than anyone we could possibly know, you are a self proclaimed "expert" at NLP and can get people to admit to child molestation. Then Rocks calls BS on your very obvious BS and you claim he is making threats. I'm with Rocks on this one - YOU are the one who has some very outrageous claims to back up.

Oh, also you're a Christian who believes in "speaking in tongues". Are you referring to the nonsense that some so called Christians spout as "tongues"? Biblically, speaking in "tongues" simply means you are speaking in an actual language different than your normal language, not this babbling crap that is used to garner attention to yourself.

While Rocks is busy "sulking in his corner", perhaps you should get back to mommy's basement and play another round of guiter hero.

"To the person that said that we are being manipulated into voting for a candidate with no experience what so ever in anything. I, for the most part, believe that presidents are only puppets, no matter who is in office, and if that person try to make a difference, they take that person out of the way!

I believe that the more info that we get, the more prepare we can be to all kind of attacks to our psyche. We must be very discerning with everything unless, of course, we are talking about 9/11, which it's pretty obvious what it is! "

Greyone - that would have been me. I do agree that, for the most part, the president is a puppet. Really I am just tired of the whole right wing conspiracy crap and was responding to that.
And, yes it is pretty obvious what 9/11 was. Hijacked planes were flown into buildings creating a cause for war. I can buy into the argument that, like Pearl Harbor, it was allowed to happen, but I'm not so desperate for conspiracy that I believe Bush and Cheney planned it.

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever

Originally posted by tallcool1
"
Lebowski - If you are referring to me, see my above post. I have not missed the point nor do I doubt that NLP works on some people to some degree. I was merely replying to the usual cacophony of "the evil right wing conspiracy" by pointing out the very obvious if you have not been blinded to it. This country, suffering the effects of NLP, just might elect an inexperienced paper doll into the oval office.

Hey, if the shoe fits...

. Seriously though... Regarding your claim that you are pointing out the obvious: It may be obvious to you but it is an opinion... a belief. Not fact.

I see your point and stand corrected. I like to think of myself as a logical thinker and what to me is blatantly obvious and baffling, to others is... let's just say something I can't buy into.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by tallcool1]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by tallcool1]

reply to post by tallcool1

I can make all kinds of claims about myself too and name a local news reporter and claim to know him, but that is in no way proof. You claim to have this vast experience in film production, know people in the entertainment industry who are more knowledgeable than anyone we could possibly know, you are a self proclaimed "expert" at NLP and can get people to admit to child molestation. Then Rocks calls BS on your very obvious BS and you claim he is making threats. I'm with Rocks on this one - YOU are the one who has some very outrageous claims to back up.

Oh, also you're a Christian who believes in "speaking in tongues". Are you referring to the nonsense that some so called Christians spout as "tongues"? Biblically, speaking in "tongues" simply means you are speaking in an actual language different than your normal language, not this babbling crap that is used to garner attention to yourself.

While Rocks is busy "sulking in his corner", perhaps you should get back to mommy's basement and play another round of guiter hero.

Lol, you can't be serious, I put in bold the parts that you lied about.
I never said I have vast experience in film production.
I never said people in the entertainment industry who are more knowledgeable than anyone we could possibly know.
I never claimed I was an expert at NLP, I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not an expert.

As far as you attacking my faith, it talks about tougues in the bible, a book you've obviously never read:

Mark 16:17
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Acts 2:4
4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

1 Corinthians 14:1-23
1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40Let all things be done decently and in order.

As you can see tougues has a place and it is real, it is a way of communication between you and God, God and the church, it's not babble, it's not to call attention to yourself, it's to edify, to uplift. It is not a human language, however sometimes God people speak a language foriegn to them that someone else knows, but most commonly it is a heavenly language.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so it's best that you shut your mouth before you look even more ignorant and stupid than what you have presented yourself as, so far.

I've shown your lies, now either say your sorry, or don't post here anymore.

-Jimmy

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


"As you can see tougues has a place and it is real, it is a way of communication between you and God, God and the church, it's not babble, it's not to call attention to yourself, it's to edify, to uplift. It is not a human language, however sometimes God people speak a language foriegn to them that someone else knows, but most commonly it is a heavenly language. "

Matthew 6:
" 5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him..

"You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so it's best that you shut your mouth before you look even more ignorant and stupid than what you have presented yourself as, so far."

Wow, namecalling and so forth. That's a very intelligent comeback. Your true colors are showing. It's these self righteous, hate filled, condescending type of responses that give true Christians a bad name. I must have hit it pretty close to the mark to work you up like that.

"I've shown your lies, now either say your sorry, or don't post here anymore."

What lies of mine have you shown? Your implication in the quotes in my previous post above is that you know the truth and not anyone else - as is proven with your juvenile responses to Rocks. This time, try to actually answer instead of having a tantrum and calling me names. You have yet to prove any of your own claims. I will say I'm sorry - sorry that I don't just blindly believe your self important claims. And I'll post here as long as the powers that be allow me to be here. Sorry again.

reply to post by tallcool1


First, I am the son of a pastor and I've been asked twice to be a youth pastor, I know way more about the bible than you do, I can garrantee that.

The verse you quoted has absolutly nothing to do with toungues, toungues if it was then Yeshua contradicted Himself. I said before and will not say agian, tougues are not for calling attention to yourself, they are communication between your spirit and God, God and the church.

I pointed out where you lied, you can't pretend nobody saw that.

I didn't call you any names, I try to make sure I don't.

I notice that you say that you got me reiled up, well that was obviously your intension because of the venomous hate filled post that you made attacking my faith. I attack peoples claims, not the people themselves, so if you have any actuall attackes to my claims (other than religion, something on topic), then post away friend, but if you don't then you truely have no purpose here.

-Jimmy

reply to post by tallcool1


Also, to add one more thing, it seems that YOUR true colors are showing, you claimed that as long as TPTB allow you to, I don't think you were refering to the ATS staff either.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by tallcool1

 

"First, I am the son of a pastor and I've been asked twice to be a youth pastor, I know way more about the bible than you do, I can garrantee that.

The verse you quoted has absolutly nothing to do with toungues, toungues if it was then Yeshua contradicted Himself. I said before and will not say agian, tougues are not for calling attention to yourself, they are communication between your spirit and God, God and the church.

I pointed out where you lied, you can't pretend nobody saw that.

I didn't call you any names, I try to make sure I don't.

I notice that you say that you got me reiled up, well that was obviously your intension because of the venomous hate filled post that you made attacking my faith. I attack peoples claims, not the people themselves, so if you have any actuall attackes to my claims (other than religion, something on topic), then post away friend, but if you don't then you truely have no purpose here."


A very quick google search will bring up many murderers and rapists and other criminals that are pastors sons. Don't get your panties in a twist, I am not at all saying or implying that you are a criminal. I am just pointing out that being a pastors son has nothing to do with understanding the Bible. I can point to verses that are about judging others such as Matthew 7:1-2 & Luke 6:37, and then refer you to your judging me as inferior in knowledge to you about the Bible. You have no idea who I am or what my studies have been in, but you judge me. And you are a pastors son. Nice Christian example there.

As for calling me names, you said I was ignorant and stupid just a few posts up. And attacking your faith, sorry. I did no such thing. I challenged your belief in "tongues" but as a Christian myself, I would not attack your belief in Christ.

And, are you still judging me to be a liar when I point out that your page 4 claim of
"Some of us 9like myself), use NLP to get info outta people, it's the reason why I've been able to get strangers to tell me some of there darkest secrets (like child porn, molestation, rape, stealing, ect.).
I actually know how this stuff works, there is a type of sorcery that was being used as well. You sir are full of BS, you sound like that one yahoo that was telling me he had 5 degrees from universities in england and japan or some bs. Seriously, put up or shut up, the challenge has been presented to you."
does not imply that you know more than the others here? Not to mention yet another good Christian judgement pronounced on someone. So again, attacking your belief in Christ - not at all. Pointing out your completely un-Christian attitude - guilty. And since you judge me as hate filled, could you point out where I even implied any hatred towards anyone?

Incidentally, I actually was referring to the ATS staff when I said that I would be posting as long as tptb allow so another judgement from you and, once again, incorrect. I forgive you though.


[edit on 20-8-2008 by tallcool1]

reply to post by tallcool1


WEll I'm sorry that I may be coming off as hateful (which is not my intent), but I never called you any names, I said you looked ignorant and you looked stupid, looking like something and actually being that thing are two differnt things, example, I can look like a black guy, but that doesnt mean I am one.

Tougues are part of my faith, you attacked that.

You sir actually became very brash and hateful acting and you tried to get a rise outta me, that's obvious, isn't it Yeshua that said that we should try and live in peace as much as possible with others? Also, do'nt try and say that I can't judge cause I'm a Chrisitan, Yeshua said to judge, but to judge righteously, now I agree that my judgement wasn't righteous, but then agian it wasn't judgement, it was me putting you in your place concerning your attack on my faith.
I'm bored and tired of this pointless battle on a thread with someone who will do anything just to try and make mountains outta mole hills.

Last post for me on here, well at least my last post replying to what you have to say sir. I'm tired of trying to prove points to someone who doesn't listen and who attacks people more than the issues.

Edit to add, when you quote somone before you quote them input this tag with out the spaces [ quote ], then to end the quote add this tag at the end without spaces [ /quote ].
REally makes it easier for people to destinguish what you're writing better.

Take care,

-Jimmy

[edit on 20-8-2008 by jimmyjackblack]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by jimmyjackblack]

One last lesson from the "stupid" one. In all of the references to tongues above:
Mark 16:17 the original Greek here for "new tongues" is "kainos" meaning new and "glossa" meaning tongue. This, in context, simply means a language that is new to them, that is, one that does exist but they had not learned or spoken yet.
Acts 2:4 the greek here is "heteros" meaning other and again "glossa" for tongue. This simply means that they spoke in a language other than what was common for where they were at. This is substantiated a couple of sentences later in acts 2:7-8 - And they were all amazed and marveled saying to one another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherin we were born?"
Here the word language comes from the greek "dialekto" meaning dialect. In context, it becomes obvious that they were merely speaking in a language not native to them, but understood by their audience.
In 1 Corinthians 14:1-23, the translation for tongue remains the same. The error here is in verses 2, 4, 13, 14, 19 & 27 where the term "unknown" appears in italicized letters, which means that it does not appear in any Greek manuscript and was added later by translators. Paul did not write "unknown" tongue, the translators did. Every other use of the word tongue ("glossa") by Paul refers to a foreign language.

Now can we get back to the original topic of NLP that we actually agree exists.

Edited to add: I do not feel I was attackin, I feel I was trying to teach and admittedly lost my patience with you. Also, yes I know I screwed up the quote thing, I didn't know how to fix it after the fact. I will not say any more either on this subject even if you do rebut my post...truce?

[edit on 20-8-2008 by tallcool1]

Ehm.... How has this become a religious discussion? What did I miss? *fervently looks for apt verses*

reply to post by Lebowski achiever


Sorry, you have two people who have strong opinions about their beliefs and we got carried away. For my part, I am sorry for derailing this thread and will stay on topic if I do post any more about it.

This is odd because of TS Fay, my power was out all day yesterday, so i had to listen to a little hand held battery powered radio.

Trying to find a news station to get info on FAY, I came across Rush Limbaughs show.

I crap you not that in the first 3 minutes i listened to him , he used the word "regurgitate(sp?), when reffering to things Obama had said.

This term must be used quite often and since I don't listen to or watch political MSM shows, I was unaware of just how blatant it was.

I just thought it was incredibly funny.