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"Above my Pay Grade" Washington insider cop out?

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posted on Aug, 18 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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What if the question was asked differently....What if Lord Obama was asked....

"Senator Obama, when do you think your 2 girls received human rights."

You think he stammered on the original question? He would probably still be stammering on this one.




posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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Wow!!!! Some of you folks have very short memories and or very interesting logic.

Since when did the standard for the office of President of the United States go from

" The Buck Stops Here..."

to

"Its Above My Pay Grade"


Can some of you answer this question??

Concerning history and specifically for you Andrew E Wiggins.


It is a stupid question, BECAUSE the answer should not be an issue in politics.


You are seriously in jest here or you have an extremely short memory ..or were never taught any history ..even current history.

I am old enough that I recall when this was in fact a political issue for any office in the land...what is your stance on Abortion.

Want to be dog catcher...what is your stance on abortion.
THe answer for years ..the very default setting used by Obama's party was in fact ...What is your stance on abortion.
Abortion was used and whored out by the body politic ..particularly this political party to control most of the offices across the land.
Abortion and politics are in fact a religion across this land. A very devout religion...to control and intimidate those with a different or contrary opinion..it is a control issue.. a default setting to play through unaccountable....unquestioned. In this case it backfired.

I submit to you and the readers here....that Obama's political party had from as far back as the beginning of Rowe vs. Wade to prepare for this answer...and goofed up here big time.

And Marge...I agree with some of the other posters here ...this is about Obama..not Bush. Bush is not running in this election. It does not bode well ..your tack, logic, and reason. However it is typical of emotions now days attempting to default through on people who can think their way around it.

This is a man represented by a political party who made almost exclusive issue of this for years and years and administration after administration.
Many of us were constantly bombarded by these types of questions...for years and years...we have not forgotten the tack and have learned clearly about the political logic or whoredom used to get votes on this very control issue.

This man will, in this office for which he is running, have the fates of many of our children and adults in their hands.

Any candidate who cannot answer this question ...is not fit for the pay grade of the office of President of the United States. They are not fit to have decision making authority over future generations. THey are not fit to have decision making over the lives of our military.

This question was asked for years and years of every candidate for the office...suddenly it is not a fit or correct question in politics.

I will greatly differ..simply because I remember the history.

This stuff some of you post doesn't even make good nonsense in lieu of the history that we remember.

Orangetom



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Since when was an issue? I have been voting since 1980 Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton and now Bush Jr. didn't do anything about abortion it still stand since becoming a right for woman to chose in the 70s.

So yes is an issue for religious rights and fundamentalist that wants to monitor and regulate women uterus and private parts but guess what it doesn't matter what the politicians babble and take side for for the votes is till and will stand as it is.

So guess what? you are also falling for the political rhetoric of religious stance.

Is nothing but BS to get the votes from that pestering side of the population that indeed wants to make it and issue in politics



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:18 AM
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Hmmm... another much to do about nothing attack on Obama.

"Above my pay grade" is I agree a trite answer... he could have easily said what it implies... that only God can answer that.

Since RR is a theological expert
perhaps he can enlighten us on the true and correct answer.

At least, while trite, Obama did not give pat rote answers like McCain did.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 



No Marge...youn were wont to go way back to Adam and Eve on the topic of Bush. Not the aborition issuse per se. Once again ..Bush is not running in this election. Obama is the one who messed up here...such deflection and confusion techniques are what is expected out of the media shilling for thier respective candidates.

Here...


Nah, if president and face with big decisions he can do what bush did, just get our nation into a big war and everybody's mind will be off the subject for at least 4 years.

like that he doesn't have to answer to nobody, no even to congress.

That seems the new trend in washignton now a days.


and here...


i]What Obama needs to do is claim to be a reborn Christian (like bush) and then get all the votes from the fundamentalist gullible(like bush) did claim to stop the killing of Innocent and then spit on their fundamentalist supporters (like bush did) after election.


Once again ..Bush is not running for election here..

However.. here...

Actually Obama gave an intelligent response to a very stupid question.


Obama Text DID NOT give an intelligent response to a very stupid question...He gave a political response to a public question...which has been asked of other candidates for years and years and years...to control the admittance to offices of this land. Somehow when such a question is asked of him...it is stupid..I dont think so.

It is becoming obvious that Obama does not do well when he gets away from his handlers. Some of us have noted this for a while now and as time goes by it is continually being confirmed. It was the same for our famous Rhodes Scholar...William Jefferson Clinton...does not do well when he gets away from his handlers.
IT is also obvious to me as well as other posters that attempts have been made to politically handle/control Michelle Obama. The handlers seem to have miscalculated here.

Once again...where and when did our politics degenerate from great men like Harry Truman and

"The Buck Stops Here"

To....

"That's Above My Pay Grade"

Grover,
As stated in my previous post...the Democratic Party has had since Roe vs Wade to come up with trite or pat answers on this question..or any like it.

What this clearly indicates...across the board. ..Republican or Democrat or any other party.. is that the standards/expectations for the Office of President have fallen significantly in the public eye.

Orangetom



[edit on 19-8-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Poor, poor friend, you still fail to see the deceptions, if posting my opinions make you happy be my guess.

Still you don't see the agenda on this issue. Pity.

Again my friend is nothing than crap and BS to gain votes.

See it worked for bush in 2004 and you can not erase that fact.

But now our littler Mc/bush seems to think that will play for him just as good as it did with Bush.

But then again it seems that religious right are short minded and that bush gave them a big slap on their faces after he won again.

Guess what that is what Mc/bush is going to do he will play the same crap card and abortion will stand where it is.

4 Previous president has no been able to do a darn thing about it.

And Mc/bush is going to be the 5 if he win.


I wonder what is in that Koo laid that some of you are drinking.


Still Obama answer just make Mc/bush look as dumb or dumber that he is already, perhaps if he stays away from the Republican old mainstream crap he will look a littler bit honest.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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The Obama Campaign admitted yesterday that Barack Obama did vote against a bill as an Illinois State Senator that would have required babies born alive after attempted abortions be given life-saving care. As recently as Saturday, Obama had indignantly denied (see video) that he had or would ever have voted against such a bill. He claimed the bill he voted against was not identical to Federal Legislation he said "everyone" would support. Turns out, his campaign now admits he did vote against "identical legislation" on the Illinois state level: Indeed, Mr. Obama appeared to misstate his position in the CBN interview on Saturday when he said the federal version he supported "was not the bill that was presented at the state level."
His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate, and a spokesman, Hari Sevugan, said the senator and other lawmakers had concerns that even as worded, the legislation could have undermined existing Illinois abortion law. Those concerns did not exist for the federal bill, because there is no federal abortion law.



Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record
www.nysun.com...




In 2003 in Illinois, Obama still opposed a state version of the law. He long claimed that he voted against it because it didn't have the same "neutrality clause" as the federal version. But the National Right to Life Committee has unearthed documents showing that the Illinois bill was amended to include such a clause, and Obama voted to kill it anyway. Confronted about this on CBN, he said the pro-life group was lying. But his campaign has now admitted that he had the legislative history wrong. Obama either didn't know his own record,

or was so accustomed to shrouding it in dishonesty that it had become second nature.


www.nypost.com...


Well, it is the congress that push and vote for the bill, not the doctors, If I wasn't sure when life began how can I take a stand to make the horrific decision to take it?

How many Innocent have been murdered because of congressmen who vote for votes?

Some of you people have way to much sympathy for the devil,

I think this is a legitimate issue, it doesn't mater what issue we bring up we are harangued into silence.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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Apparently Obama is so embarrassed about his own voting record he feels the need to LIE about it, yet some of you here say it is a NON ISSUE?

Go figure.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Wow Stormdancer,



How many Innocent have been murdered because of congressmen who vote for votes?

Some of you people have way to much sympathy for the devil,


That is pretty much my understanding of the abortion issue for years now. I realized that abortion from the political stance..was about votes..not about abortion. Both sides are debating a placebo issue here. The people representing the public are primarily intrested in the votes a issue will get not the results of that for which they vote.

Abortion has become the litmus test at one time for any office in the land. As I stated in my previous post..you could not run for dog catcher unless you had a particular stance on abortion.

THe problem today is that this issue has been weakend in the minds of many women..and men too. This, according to what a woman taught me, was due to the technological advancement of sonograms...where a woman and man can see clearly the photos of a living child in the womb.
I would have never thought about this view if not for this woman. I am grateful to her to this very day for teaching me thus.

Dont worry or despair. The body politic is always looking for a new control issue to garner the bulk of the market on emotionally unstable but predictable electorate. Another issue will eventually crop up to be used as a litmus test. THe main context of the abortion issue is that it became good for so long as a control issue on at least half of the population for gauranteed , controllable, malliable, predictable votes.

In short ..the body politic ..both partys are still looking for such a litmus test to sell the very souls of the American public for votes. This is called in some arenas...whoredom.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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In short ..the body politic ..both partys are still looking for such a litmus test to sell the very souls of the American public for votes. This is called in some arenas...whoredom.


It was always amazing to me that the slaughter of the most helpless got you votes,



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
Just an answer where he can't be pinned down on what he really believes. Trying to get votes from both sides. There is a video with Hillary (debate maybe) where he danced around the question also.

But how about this


We need fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception.


source


So he believes fatherhood begins at conception, but life of a baby doesn't.



Hey Jam...I read it as it reads. RESPONSIBILITY does not end at conception. Everyone with a moral compass would agree if you get a woman pregnant, there your genuine "responsibility" begins. As opposed to knocking a girl up and running for the hills.

His words..."responsibility begins at conception"
Your words "fatherhood begins at conception"

He was speaking to those who get a woman pregnant and then run. You understand what he is saying. No need to twist or assign theological meaning to it that isn't there.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by TheRooster

IMHO, Mr. Obama does not possess the skill set to lead this great country, and his response to a very simple question serves as a demonstration of that.


If by "skill set" you mean someone with the arrogance to believe they perfectly understand God's designs and intent ...then yes you should vote for McCain. He sure was darn sure he knew exactly how God worked.

I can hear it now..."I know God's mind, my friends!"

As for me I have had my fill of mind-numbing arrogance in the white house and am not looking to continue it.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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I find it funny,t hat this man KNOWS, he has to , that bortion is a big issue in this election. to say that it is above his paygrade is nothing more than ducking the question and pandering to both sides of the fence by basically sitting right on top of it, and not giving anyone any kind of idea on how he feels about it.

this is yet another example of how Obama is just your typical double talk, and questing dodging politician that we have been dealing with since god knows when. and this is painfully obvious to anyone, who isn't so in love with the man that they have a picture taped to their mirror so they can sit and stare at is every morning while they do their morning routine.

i would rather have someone that answers a question, honestly, and on the spot... rather than someone who beats around the bush and gives a non-answer such as that.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, he may not do horrible as president, but to try and say he is anything but your typical poltician who will offer you gold with one hand, and throw crap at you with the other is plain insane.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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I think his "above my pay grade" answer was taking the question as asking him for a fact. I think he was simply saying that he doesn't know. He's not a scientist so he can't presume to know the factual answer to that. If he was asked for his opinion it may have been a different story.

Here's an example from my point of view:

If some one asked me "At what point does a baby get human rights" my answer would be "I don't know" because I don't KNOW.

If some one asked me "At what point do you THINK a baby gets human rights" , I would say that I think it starts when it has consciousness (but then that opens a whole new door because how do you know when it has consciousness?) and that is my belief. Knowing and believing are two different things.

You could say that he should have assumed he was being asked for his opinion, and maybe he should have, but when your on the spot and in a forum in which you know the people to be hostile to your ideas you tend to get a bit frazzled. I think he was frazzled and took the question in the first way he interpreted it.

Disclaimer: I don't support Barrack Obama and I do think the answer was very ridiculous but I think that's why he answered it in the way he did. That's my objective opinion.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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www.youtube.com...

well I guess he sleeps well at night.

[edit on 053131p://bTuesday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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Will the real Obama step forward?

It's all been smoke and mirrors these past months...Now we are going to see the real obama come out of the closet.

He is going to show us the real far left wing radical he is.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
Well...actually it can. Life does technically begin at conception. The question is really threefold. When does consciousness start? When does a human have a "soul" if it exists? And when is a human life given worth?


I would argue that life begins BEFORE the conception. After all, the genetic material that eventually becomes an organism we recognize as human pre-exists and is packaged in a form that has metabolism going on.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
blogs.reuters.com...


Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”


add alot of stammering, add alot of confused facial expressions, and this quote is right on.

This is NOT a thread about abortion! This is a thread about the phrase "Above my Pay Grade".

Right out of High School I landed a job in the Pentagon as a Clerk Typist, I think it was a Pay Grade of GS-2 or GS-4...pretty low on the pay grade scale. I heard the phrase "Above my Pay Grade" endlessly, usually in a joking manner. Usually in response to a hard question.

Here is the current Government Pay Grades, or "General Schedule" to which Obama was referring.

www.opm.gov...

Anyway Obama is running for President of the United States. You would think that a Senator or President would be over any type of GS Scale.

So in short....What the Hell is he talking about? Is he trying to compare himself to a scaled Government employee, or has he been influenced so much by Washington that he is picking up on government speak?


McCain supporter here...

He is, in my opinion, copping out, but not because of that particular answer.
I think he was quite clear on his answer, you have to analyze and interpret what anyone says. As far as I am concerned his answer clarified his position on the issue, and if the election was only about social issues he would have my support (not my vote since I am Canadian).

Where I think he has copped out is in:

- Keeping Religion in the debate. I had some hope that he would just center his campaign around relevant issues, and stop the traditional "church procession" that, eventually, turns me off American Politics.

Are candidates running to become President of the USA, or, are they running to become the "Pope of the religious right"?

I was initially a Rudolph Giuliani volunteer, an supporter, because I thought he would just tell all these ridiculous Ministers, Pastor and Priests, along with their Media clones, to get back to preaching and stop meddling in politics. Although I then turned my support to McCain, I always had the hope that Obama would keep these religious maggots at bay, by ignoring them...
Thus, the Campaign would be about issues and not, as it as become, about who is more religious then who...

In that respect I think he copped out, and that his campaign is being torpedoed by this choice he made.

For someone who's campaign was based on change, he is, more and more, starting to look like the traditional Washington politician...

What a waist!!!



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative

Anyway Obama is running for President of the United States. You would think that a Senator or President would be over any type of GS Scale.

So in short....What the Hell is he talking about?


For the more eschatologically-challenged among us, Sen. Obama was speaking in spiritual terms. Only the most arrogant humans would propose they know the answer to that question. Of course, we all assume that life/human rights are fulfilled at the point of conception. But not being God, we can't testify to that fact.

And for the record, I am a "borne-again" Christian.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by EastCoastKid
 


Bingo!!!!!!!!! but we know that behind the abortion religious stance the selfrighteous appointed leaders seems to be the ones in close links with god and the only ones that can impose morality on others.

Still Mc/Bush played the right card for the eyes and ear of the religious right just like a littler good boy to suck up some votes.






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