"Above my Pay Grade" Washington insider cop out?, page 1/

blogs.reuters.com...

Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”

add alot of stammering, add alot of confused facial expressions, and this quote is right on.

This is NOT a thread about abortion! This is a thread about the phrase "Above my Pay Grade".

Right out of High School I landed a job in the Pentagon as a Clerk Typist, I think it was a Pay Grade of GS-2 or GS-4...pretty low on the pay grade scale. I heard the phrase "Above my Pay Grade" endlessly, usually in a joking manner. Usually in response to a hard question.

Here is the current Government Pay Grades, or "General Schedule" to which Obama was referring.

www.opm.gov...

Anyway Obama is running for President of the United States. You would think that a Senator or President would be over any type of GS Scale.

So in short....What the Hell is he talking about? Is he trying to compare himself to a scaled Government employee, or has he been influenced so much by Washington that he is picking up on government speak?

reply to post by RRconservative

---

Theologically, it is above his 'pay grade' because he is a member of the congregation, not the minister.

Scientifically, it is above his 'pay grade' because he is a lawyer, not a scientist.

That is what your quote means.

If you are speaking politically, he is saying that he has his own views on the topic, but in this society there are numerous other points of view.

Either way, this mole hill is nothing like the mountain McCain climbed while dancing his way around "What is Rich to you?"

....... um, I don't know, maybe 5 million?
DocMoreau

Just an answer where he can't be pinned down on what he really believes. Trying to get votes from both sides. There is a video with Hillary (debate maybe) where he danced around the question also.

But how about this

We need fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception.

source


So he believes fatherhood begins at conception, but life of a baby doesn't.

Originally posted by RRconservative
blogs.reuters.com...

Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”

add alot of stammering, add alot of confused facial expressions, and this quote is right on.

This is NOT a thread about abortion! This is a thread about the phrase "Above my Pay Grade".

Right out of High School I landed a job in the Pentagon as a Clerk Typist, I think it was a Pay Grade of GS-2 or GS-4...pretty low on the pay grade scale. I heard the phrase "Above my Pay Grade" endlessly, usually in a joking manner. Usually in response to a hard question.

Here is the current Government Pay Grades, or "General Schedule" to which Obama was referring.

www.opm.gov...

Anyway Obama is running for President of the United States. You would think that a Senator or President would be over any type of GS Scale.

So in short....What the Hell is he talking about? Is he trying to compare himself to a scaled Government employee, or has he been influenced so much by Washington that he is picking up on government speak?

I believe it's called "ducking the question". He did look quite nervous when faced with that. Came off very poorly as you pointed out.

I think this line, "above my pay grade" is going to haunt him for some time, perhaps the rest of this election cycle. He's not very good when it comes to speaking withiout his prepared speech that someone on his staff wrote for him. I think that showed throughout the evening.

Loved your GS pay grade scale. Way, way back when, around 1970, my Father was a GS 13 and had several years at it. He was near the top of the scale for a GS 13. He made $13,000+ at that time. How times have changed.

reply to post by DocMoreau

---

The Doc put it better than i could have.

"above my pay grade" means just that.

Its not up to Obama to decide the key factors involved in making the decision.

Its up to Obama to let those who have dedicated their lives to understanding the complexities of the abortion issue

taking the information presented to him, and making a decision accordingly


If this was Jeopardy - the answer would be

"things a leader does"



I would be more fearful of McCains straight forward answer of "no"

There is zero scientific evidence to back his claim - and so he bases it solely on religion.

Which for a person thats fine. For a politician thats not.

You may agree with him this time around - but what happens if his political agenda mixed with religious zeal concocts something that you don't agree with?

What happens when another persons religious ideals are forced upon you from the highest seat in the land?


"Above your pay grade" is not even something you can take out of context.

It means exactly how it was said.

reply to post by jam321

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No. He never said he doesnt believe life beings at conception

he said that decision is above his pay grade.

Why are you putting words in his mouth?

[edit on 8/17/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

The question is above his pay grade? He was being asked his opinion. It is common knowledge that abortion is a huge debate in American society. It is also common knowledge that there are many different opinions on when life begins. It was OBVIOUSLY implied that Obama was being asked his opinion on the matter. How come he couldn't simply give his opinion instead of using a incredibly crappy, unintelligent copout?

His response embarrassed me as a human being.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

Yeah. "Above my pay grade." That's refusing to answer the question, completely dodging the issue. If this was McCain, he'd be old and senile. If it's Obama, it's not avoiding the issue, it's being honest (even though he completely dodged the question like a weasel).


And the better question is...if that's above his pay grade, that means the presidency is, too. But we already knew that! I'm surprised he even knows what a "pay grade" is, because of his vast military experience ( ).

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Johnmike]

reply to post by alkali

---

Why did it embarrass you?

Is the truth now not only unwanted in politics, but also emabarassing?

Isnt the reason we have scientists and theologians to find the answers to these types of questions?


Why do you rest your faith in any politician (mccain or obama) to decide what is sacred and moral, and what is not?

If life begins at conception, and it can be proven, then abortion should be 100% outlawed. Even in instances of rape.

But since it cant be proven, then its just a religious ideal that it should be illegal.

Religion shouldnt weigh in on any law in the political system.

That would be erecting a law in favor of a religion, and imposing Christianity on those who may or may not want it.

That kind of (actually...very much so) goes against the premise that this country was founded on.

How easily you and your ilk have forgotten that....

reply to post by alkali

---

Really!!!!!!!!!!!

Then I wonder how you feel about bush giving a slap in the face of fundamentalist gullibles after they gave him votes thinking that he was going to abolish abortion after winning the election in 2004.

Deny ignorance.

Actually Obama gave an intelligent response to a very stupid question.

reply to post by Johnmike

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Really? Prove to me that "life" (as we construe it) begins at conception.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

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The same way you say Above his pay grade was not an attempt to avoid being pinned down on a controversial issue.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

---

Well the "as we construe it" makes it subjective, but objectively, the sperm and the egg combine to form an embryo. This is, genetically, human. Independently, supplied with the proper nutrients and conditions, it will develop and form into a human. It's not practical to grow a human in vitro (through we can fertilize), but if you reproduce the conditions of the womb enough, and insert a newly conceived embryo, it will develop whether there's a mother or not (though you have to give it nutrients and oxygen and whatnot artificially, as it can't maintain homeostasis as developed humans can). So technically, a human "life" begins when a sperm and egg combine - at that point you have a single-celled human that will spontaneously develop given the proper conditions (as you would die if the Earth wasn't proper for you - though you're far less sensitive than a zygote!).

But that doesn't make it too much easier. That doesn't mean that this human life has a soul or anything, or that it's as valuable as a developed human. Hell, in some philosophies (as you can see throughout history), one developed human isn't even as valuable as another (ex. social castes, monarchies, aristocracies...), so whether or not life is "valuable" or has rights is open to interpretation.


And I started writing this long before you posted, elevatedone. If you feel the desire to respond to this, Andrew, you can do it with a PM or profile post or something.

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Johnmike]

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