"Above my Pay Grade" Washington insider cop out?

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posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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blogs.reuters.com...


Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”


add alot of stammering, add alot of confused facial expressions, and this quote is right on.

This is NOT a thread about abortion! This is a thread about the phrase "Above my Pay Grade".

Right out of High School I landed a job in the Pentagon as a Clerk Typist, I think it was a Pay Grade of GS-2 or GS-4...pretty low on the pay grade scale. I heard the phrase "Above my Pay Grade" endlessly, usually in a joking manner. Usually in response to a hard question.

Here is the current Government Pay Grades, or "General Schedule" to which Obama was referring.

www.opm.gov...

Anyway Obama is running for President of the United States. You would think that a Senator or President would be over any type of GS Scale.

So in short....What the Hell is he talking about? Is he trying to compare himself to a scaled Government employee, or has he been influenced so much by Washington that he is picking up on government speak?




posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by RRconservative
 


Theologically, it is above his 'pay grade' because he is a member of the congregation, not the minister.

Scientifically, it is above his 'pay grade' because he is a lawyer, not a scientist.

That is what your quote means.

If you are speaking politically, he is saying that he has his own views on the topic, but in this society there are numerous other points of view.

Either way, this mole hill is nothing like the mountain McCain climbed while dancing his way around "What is Rich to you?"

....... um, I don't know, maybe 5 million?
DocMoreau



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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Just an answer where he can't be pinned down on what he really believes. Trying to get votes from both sides. There is a video with Hillary (debate maybe) where he danced around the question also.

But how about this


We need fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception.


source


So he believes fatherhood begins at conception, but life of a baby doesn't.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
blogs.reuters.com...


Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”


add alot of stammering, add alot of confused facial expressions, and this quote is right on.

This is NOT a thread about abortion! This is a thread about the phrase "Above my Pay Grade".

Right out of High School I landed a job in the Pentagon as a Clerk Typist, I think it was a Pay Grade of GS-2 or GS-4...pretty low on the pay grade scale. I heard the phrase "Above my Pay Grade" endlessly, usually in a joking manner. Usually in response to a hard question.

Here is the current Government Pay Grades, or "General Schedule" to which Obama was referring.

www.opm.gov...

Anyway Obama is running for President of the United States. You would think that a Senator or President would be over any type of GS Scale.

So in short....What the Hell is he talking about? Is he trying to compare himself to a scaled Government employee, or has he been influenced so much by Washington that he is picking up on government speak?


I believe it's called "ducking the question". He did look quite nervous when faced with that. Came off very poorly as you pointed out.

I think this line, "above my pay grade" is going to haunt him for some time, perhaps the rest of this election cycle. He's not very good when it comes to speaking withiout his prepared speech that someone on his staff wrote for him. I think that showed throughout the evening.

Loved your GS pay grade scale. Way, way back when, around 1970, my Father was a GS 13 and had several years at it. He was near the top of the scale for a GS 13. He made $13,000+ at that time. How times have changed.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by DocMoreau
 


The Doc put it better than i could have.

"above my pay grade" means just that.

Its not up to Obama to decide the key factors involved in making the decision.

Its up to Obama to let those who have dedicated their lives to understanding the complexities of the abortion issue

taking the information presented to him, and making a decision accordingly


If this was Jeopardy - the answer would be

"things a leader does"



I would be more fearful of McCains straight forward answer of "no"

There is zero scientific evidence to back his claim - and so he bases it solely on religion.

Which for a person thats fine. For a politician thats not.

You may agree with him this time around - but what happens if his political agenda mixed with religious zeal concocts something that you don't agree with?

What happens when another persons religious ideals are forced upon you from the highest seat in the land?


"Above your pay grade" is not even something you can take out of context.

It means exactly how it was said.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


No. He never said he doesnt believe life beings at conception

he said that decision is above his pay grade.

Why are you putting words in his mouth?

[edit on 8/17/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


The question is above his pay grade? He was being asked his opinion. It is common knowledge that abortion is a huge debate in American society. It is also common knowledge that there are many different opinions on when life begins. It was OBVIOUSLY implied that Obama was being asked his opinion on the matter. How come he couldn't simply give his opinion instead of using a incredibly crappy, unintelligent copout?

His response embarrassed me as a human being.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
 

There is zero scientific evidence to back his claim - and so he bases it solely on religion.


Zero scientific evidence to back the claim that life starts at conception? I seriously hope this is not what you're saying..


[edit on 17-8-2008 by alkali]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


Yeah. "Above my pay grade." That's refusing to answer the question, completely dodging the issue. If this was McCain, he'd be old and senile. If it's Obama, it's not avoiding the issue, it's being honest (even though he completely dodged the question like a weasel).


And the better question is...if that's above his pay grade, that means the presidency is, too.
But we already knew that! I'm surprised he even knows what a "pay grade" is, because of his vast military experience (
).

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Johnmike]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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What Obama needs to do is claim to be a reborn Christian (like bush) and then get all the votes from the fundamentalist gullible(like bush) did claim to stop the killing of Innocent and then spit on their fundamentalist supporters (like bush did) after election.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by alkali
 


Why did it embarrass you?

Is the truth now not only unwanted in politics, but also emabarassing?

Isnt the reason we have scientists and theologians to find the answers to these types of questions?


Why do you rest your faith in any politician (mccain or obama) to decide what is sacred and moral, and what is not?

If life begins at conception, and it can be proven, then abortion should be 100% outlawed. Even in instances of rape.

But since it cant be proven, then its just a religious ideal that it should be illegal.

Religion shouldnt weigh in on any law in the political system.

That would be erecting a law in favor of a religion, and imposing Christianity on those who may or may not want it.

That kind of (actually...very much so) goes against the premise that this country was founded on.

How easily you and your ilk have forgotten that....



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by alkali
 


Really!!!!!!!!!!!

Then I wonder how you feel about bush giving a slap in the face of fundamentalist gullibles after they gave him votes thinking that he was going to abolish abortion after winning the election in 2004.

Deny ignorance.

Actually Obama gave an intelligent response to a very stupid question.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
If life begins at conception, and it can be proven, then abortion should be 100% outlawed.

But since it cant be proven, then its just a religious ideal that it should be illegal.

Well...actually it can. Life does technically begin at conception. The question is really threefold. When does consciousness start? When does a human have a "soul" if it exists? And when is a human life given worth?


And marg, you should quit trolling. Bush has nothing to do with this thread. Thanks.


[edit on 17-8-2008 by Johnmike]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


Really? Prove to me that "life" (as we construe it) begins at conception.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


The same way you say Above his pay grade was not an attempt to avoid being pinned down on a controversial issue.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
And marg, you should quit trolling. Bush has nothing to do with this thread. Thanks.




Sorry to burst you bubble but I am on the topic at hand thank you very much


I guess you don't like the truth.

BTW No even the bible can answer the question about abortion I guess the God of the bible never even gave a second though about abortion



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


Why did it embarrass you?

Is the truth now not only unwanted in politics, but also emabarassing?

Isnt the reason we have scientists and theologians to find the answers to these types of questions?


Are you making the statement that no one outside of the philosophical and scientific community can have an opinion on this? Obama was being asked his opinion, which he could not give.


Why do you rest your faith in any politician (mccain or obama) to decide what is sacred and moral, and what is not?

If life begins at conception, and it can be proven, then abortion should be 100% outlawed. Even in instances of rape.


Is the embryo not growing? Needing nourishment? I think you may need to check the definition of "life".


But since it cant be proven, then its just a religious ideal that it should be illegal.

Religion shouldnt weigh in on any law in the political system.

That would be erecting a law in favor of a religion, and imposing Christianity on those who may or may not want it.


It is proven.

Anyway, a moral law is not a religious law. By outlawing abortion, you are not supporting a religion, you are supporting a moral cause. All of our laws are backed by moral principles. This is common knowledge. Simply because the church backs something does not make it a religious thing. You're logic floors me.

Obama could have simply given his opinion concerning all of this, but he chose not too. He took the easy road out. How will he ever be able to make a decision as President if he can't answer the simple question of "when do you think life begins?"

[edit on 17-8-2008 by alkali]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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This thread isn't about abortion or when life does or doesn't begin.

On topic please.


Off topic posts will be removed and the user warned.



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


Well the "as we construe it" makes it subjective, but objectively, the sperm and the egg combine to form an embryo. This is, genetically, human. Independently, supplied with the proper nutrients and conditions, it will develop and form into a human. It's not practical to grow a human in vitro (through we can fertilize), but if you reproduce the conditions of the womb enough, and insert a newly conceived embryo, it will develop whether there's a mother or not (though you have to give it nutrients and oxygen and whatnot artificially, as it can't maintain homeostasis as developed humans can). So technically, a human "life" begins when a sperm and egg combine - at that point you have a single-celled human that will spontaneously develop given the proper conditions (as you would die if the Earth wasn't proper for you - though you're far less sensitive than a zygote!).

But that doesn't make it too much easier. That doesn't mean that this human life has a soul or anything, or that it's as valuable as a developed human. Hell, in some philosophies (as you can see throughout history), one developed human isn't even as valuable as another (ex. social castes, monarchies, aristocracies...), so whether or not life is "valuable" or has rights is open to interpretation.


And I started writing this long before you posted, elevatedone.
If you feel the desire to respond to this, Andrew, you can do it with a PM or profile post or something.


[edit on 17-8-2008 by Johnmike]



posted on Aug, 17 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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above my paygrade means just that.

Last time ill say it.

Its not up to politicians to decide issues like this.

Thats why we have theologians and scientists.

Obama is neither.

Its 'above his pay grade'

he cant make the choice. Neither can McCain.

Period.





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