Blackwater Rent-A-Soldiers to be Indicted?

Originally posted by BlasteR

Originally posted by justamomma

You just couldn't resist throwing in that you are the dubbed blackwater expert, could you.

He actually is... I've known him for months now.. he knows more about the subject than ANY.. ANY other person I have come across on ATS.

Is there some kind of problem with that?? You act like the understanding the truth is a bad thing

Spartankingleonidas will not bite you...

-ChriS

See, I can't tell if you are joking here or not about him knowing more about the subject than ANY.. ANY other person you have come across on ATS.

Have you read his thread on it? It is nothing but regurgitated material put out by ppl who have an obvious agenda against Blackwater.

A one sided view taken from someone else does not an expert make.

The truth is NOT a bad thing at all which is why I think the truth should be upheld and the title be made to come down at this point. If he had been a good little student, he wouldn't have used his self given, single mod approved title in the manner that he did.

I just want to be assured that this is a place that really denies ignorance..... please.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by WyrdeOne

 

Any chance you could actually use the proper terminology and not refer to them as mercenaries since they aren't merc's?

Security contractors will suffice. Thanks.

Ha ha....
Maybe you should look up what a security contractor/mercenary is:

A private military company (PMC) provides specialized expertise or services of a military nature, sometimes called or classified as mercenary ("soldiers for hire").[1] Such companies are equally known as Private Security Contractors (PSCs), Private Military Corporations, Private Military Firms, Military Service Providers, and generally as the Private Military Industry.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe look up 'denial' while you are at it....
DocMoreau

reply to post by justamomma


If you honestly think that then you really don't know anything about how blackwater really operates...

-ChriS

reply to post by BlasteR


And you do?

Care to enlighten us as to the wealth of knowledge you possess on how BW operates?

Unless these mercenaries face an Iraqi court without any obstruction we could see the free pass that mercenaries get in Iraq help the rise of the very people they are spouse to be defending against . Think of 1930s Japan just swap the army with Islamic extremists . Now there can be no doubt or argument that such an eventuality in Iraq is in nobody bests interests . It wont happen but the use of mercenaries in war zones needs to come to an end .

reply to post by WyrdeOne


Ever happen to think that faces are blurred for OPSEC?

Obscurity is the word of the day

reply to post by Scorched Earth

reply to post by Scorched Earth


I am not a blackwater expert but I do know that this has been a war-profiteering campaign from the very beginning. If you care to review any of my previous posts in other threads regarding blackwater, I suggest you do that as I have reiterated my thoughts over and over again..

This is a company of mercenaries who are not held to the normal rules of engagment normally attributed to a fighting force in an AOI. And even though this may be legally justified by the fact they operate under the guise of security contracting, there are no laws to hold them accountable for anything. Military soldiers in Iraq continue to be court-martialed for conduct related infractions of the UCMJ. But no Blackwater security contractor has EVER been held legally accountable for anything. Either these guys are boy scouts who can do no wrong, or there is something critically wrong with this system.

These handful of blackwater contractors involved with the supposed civilian killings are ALL being investigated. And if this case is litigated, it opens up pandora's box for similar lawsuits in the future. That's why this case is so critically important. It isn't just a matter of holding people accountable for their actions either. These are, mostly, American citizens who represent the united states of America as they have been paid by the government to conduct operations in Iraq and elsewhere.

Up to now, the worst reprimand a contractor has gotten for misconduct, or anything else, is losing his/her job. And although this is costly for them due to the amount of money these people make, it in no way justifies not having to adhere to any form of legal precedent. This system is completely twisted.

Noone knows yet if these contractors can even be held accountable due to the legal nightmare involved with this case. Even if these people are found guilty, it doesn't mean there will be broad, sweeping changes throughout the realm of big security contractors The only legal stipulation involved with these companies at this point are the contracts themselves and whatever laws apply to the organisations themselves here in the U.S.

If there really are more contractors in Iraq than there are military soldiers, then the current system is critically flawed. These people represent our country abroad. And if these contractors can get away with anything they want to and not have to worry about being slapped with a lawsuit, what does that say about our country in general? Losing your job because of misconduct hardly makes up for killing an innocent civilian. I don't know all of what happened, I have only read tidbits here and there. And I am not passing judgement on these people because that's for a jury to decide if this lawsuit does procede. But make no mistake about it, if these contractors are found guilty of these crimes, it is definately going to wake people up to what is going on here.

The government continues to give Blackwater more freedom to do what it pleases and more money. These are our tax dollars. The government recently decided to allow Blackwater to conduct intelligence gathering operations in the U.S., and Blackwater officials say they are currently moving away from private contracting to focus investment and expansion in other areas. They recently expanded their aviation division and opened a new counter-terrorism training center in San Deigo (to the behest of San Diego city officials). What we are seeing is the expansion of contracting companies in hopes that they will eventually get more contracts and, thus, take over part of the military's current responsibilities. The counter-terrorism facility is a great example of military soldiers being trained by private companies.. And lawmakers are still making a big fuss over it.

Blackwater puts private contracting in back seat

ATS THREAD Blackwater Now in The 'Private Intelligence' Business

But you can't look at these news stories and not at least question the integrity of an organisation like this on the very edge of what is legal and not legal. Where does the Blackwater end and the government begin?

Auditors Question Blackwater Contracts

Interrogation for Profit

2004 Use of Gas by Blackwater Leaves Questions

Iraqi Official: Blackwater staying on 'is bad news'

Blackwater May Have Fudged Numbers to Get $100M in Contracts

-ChriS

[edit on 20-8-2008 by BlasteR]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by WyrdeOne


Keeping faces hidden lessens the chances of someone being recognized. If you worked for an unpopular company, would you want everyone knowing what you look like?

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Scorched Earth


Then you really do know nothing about Blackwater....

Do you think YOU are an expert on Blackwater? Why should listen to you? The only "credibility" anyone has on ATS is the credibility you establish here. At least try to make some kind of argument that makes sense. Do you possess some kind of magical hidden knowledge that we do not? If so then prove it and stop blabbering about not reading posts because you don't agree with them.

-ChriS




[edit on 20-8-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by BlasteR


And you do?

If you did, you would know they arent mercs.

Stop trying to debate something you know nothing about.

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by BlasteR

 

And you do?

If you did, you would know they arent mercs.

Stop trying to debate something you know nothing about.

Hey can I add my two pennies worth?

They call themselves Private Military Contractors. PMCs. Now, they are private individuals working for a private company for gainful employment as trigger pullers.

This makes them mercenaries to all but the operators themselves. The definition of mercenary is thus;
1. Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.
2. Hired for service in a foreign army.
n. pl. mer·ce·nar·ies
1. One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.
2. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army.

The USA might try to redefine them, might try to brush up the image of these people, but until they manage to get the public to see killing for money as gainful proper employment, they the public will always call them mercs.

R.I.P Scott Helvenston et al.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by BlasteR

Originally posted by justamomma

You just couldn't resist throwing in that you are the dubbed blackwater expert, could you.

He actually is... I've known him for months now.. he knows more about the subject than ANY.. ANY other person I have come across on ATS.

Is there some kind of problem with that?? You act like the understanding the truth is a bad thing

Spartankingleonidas will not bite you...

-ChriS

See, I can't tell if you are joking here or not about him knowing more about the subject than ANY.. ANY other person you have come across on ATS.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by justamomma]

I have been participating in ATS threads for a while now. I have met alot of people who could probably be called experts. But from what I've seen and the discussions I've participated in, YES he knows more about Blackwater than anyone I have seen. This is what I said in my post, and NO I am not "joking"... I am simply pointing out an observation. This doesn't mean there aren't other people who could be considered ATS experts on Blackwater. And, YES, I have the right to give him credit where credit is due regardless of who believes who is the expert.

To say that he is the foremost ATS expert on Blackwater would be stupid because I don't know everyone on ATS. This isn't what I said.

-ChriS

reply to post by Dan Tanna


Thanks for that. You beat me to it

-ChriS

reply to post by Dan Tanna


a) they arent serving a foreign army, or under a foreign flag.

b) did they magically become mercenaries when they left the Seal Teams to work for BW?

c) they do not conduct offensive operations.

d) As I asked before, would you also consider the DSS mercs considering the perform the same role as BW does?

reply to post by BlasteR


Could you provide an example of the knowledge he possesses that no one else does?

Originally posted by Scorched Earth

One would think if you prefer to deal in truth, you wouldn't use the term mercenary since they arent. Want mercs? Look at the now defunct companies like Sandline International. 100% merc firm there.

Blackwater? Not so much.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the mercenary activity of BW?

Were they acting as mercs while proving protection details for Paul Bremer? What about other high level Dept. of State employees?

Were they acting as mercs while working alongside the DSS? They performed the same role, so are you willing to step up and say the Diplomatic Security Service (part of the State Dept. ) is also a mercenary organization?

Ohhh lets have a look. Paul Bremer, yes he was protected by a personel security detail from BW. He had good mercenry protection.

Black water are contracted out to the state department for monies. They are NOT Federal Employees. They do the work for one off payments, not 404s and health care. This is mercenaric.

The DSS is Federal Employees, with Federal Badges, for their wages and other benefits through an arm of the US State department and / or federal Gov. Black water are not in any way shape or form Federal Employees.

BW are PMC's. To you and I they are PMCs, but to the English speaking world they are mercenaries as they fill the definition of payment for hire as armed troops on a casual basis, not as employees of any said Governments.