Obama did great, but McCain hit the home runs, page 4

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reply posted on 17-8-2008 @ 09:31 PM by Andrew E. Wiggin

reply to post by AntiCensorship

as much as i'd like to agree with this

He's honestly and truly a non-partisan centrist.

about ANY politician...what, in the wonderful world of all that is logical, makes McCain a true non-partisan centrist??

[edit on 8/17/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply posted on 17-8-2008 @ 09:42 PM by AntiCensorship

How about his record?

McCain has worked closely with liberals like Ted Kennedy and Russell Feingold and has frequently acted against the best interests of the Republican Party because he thought he was benefiting the wider interests of the American people. Personally, I was absolutely disgusted with him over the whole open-borders stance he took last year, and I'm not even convinced that he wholeheartedly believes we need to secure the border before addressing the illegal immigration problem.... But, I've got to give the man credit for taking unpopular positions that ought to harm his electability simply because he thinks he's doing the right thing.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 01:25 AM by southern_Guardian

Originally posted by AntiCensorship
How about his record?

McCain has worked closely with liberals like Ted Kennedy and Russell Feingold and has frequently acted against the best interests of the Republican Party because he thought he was benefiting the wider interests of the American people. Personally, I was absolutely disgusted with him over the whole open-borders stance he took last year, and I'm not even convinced that he wholeheartedly believes we need to secure the border before addressing the illegal immigration problem.... But, I've got to give the man credit for taking unpopular positions that ought to harm his electability simply because he thinks he's doing the right thing.

McCain voted 95% in line with Bush before he decided to run.

McCain claims his "a consistent supporter of educational benefits for the men and women of the military" yet he refuses to support the GI bill, just like Bush. And then mccain says this: nz.youtube.com...

McCain supports a war that he and his neocon buddies cant explain the reason for. First its
-WMDs, then when the UN finds nothing,
-it was connected to the terrorists of 911, your typical rightwing fearmongering, and then
-it was because saddam was a bad person, yet there are plenty of other nations to "liberate" in this case, but no, this wasnt the reason why Bush invaded Iraq,
-and now its the "surge". For some darn reason the "surge" is working and thats why we should stay there yet there is still no legitimate reason why we're there. A war thats costing the tax payer $200million all the while at home the economy suffers. A war that is yet to bring out Osama. A war that righties constantly defend knowing full well the truth behind the invasion yet prefer to cover their asses and their votes.

McCain was a maverick until he started following the crowd of neocons few years back. He intends to continue the policies of this administration that have failed this nation. He intends to keep troops in a pointless costly war, costly of the tax payers money and lives.

McCain is no "centrist". This is the new ""thing"" coming from the mouths of righties, "oh I dont like McCain but im voting for him" as if their sacrifice to vote for mccain clarifies that McCain is not Bush at all. I mean are serious?

The second wave of anti-obama smears are coming in. Let me translate them here:

Obama will let " Bush's Crimes Remain Buried for all Time"
So Bush will not be charged under Obama by righties account so you might aswell vote McCain.

Obama school documents
A school document supposedly to be "authentic" yet no official sources confirm this. Oh but this is different to Obamas birth certificate, oh thats a different. The step father of obama wrote this so it must be true.

Obama's Extreme Stand on Abortion
Obama's policies are inline with clintons, Obamas stance on abortion is no different than the vast majority of liberals. Theres no "extreme" stand here.
And here straight out of the constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Everyday its something new with you fellas, one day a myth of yours is debunked, the next day its something else and to make it worse these members cannot see the hypocrisy in these accusations.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by southern_Guardian]

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 01:35 AM by walkinghomer

Well Well Well...It seems as though our friend John Mccain was NOT in a cone of silence during the forum. CNN, Rick Sanchez interviewed Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church live where Mr. Warren admitted that John Mccain was NOT in a cone of silence as previously stated, but in fact was in his limo for the first 30 minute of the show.

Straight Talk Express. Don't tell me he didn't have the questions before. The way he was shooting those answers out it look like he had diarrhea and had to let it out.

www.cnn.com.../video/politics/2008/08/17/rick.warren.forum.interview.cnn

Edit to add link to video:

[edit on 18-8-2008 by walkinghomer]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by walkinghomer]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by walkinghomer]

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 04:42 AM by AndrewTB

Originally posted by walkinghomer

What happened Johnny, Please tell me, why did it fail. I'm sure the crowd and the people at home would have liked to hear what your greatest moral failure is.

Straight Talk Express..lol...Wouldn't it be great if the questions of the world could be answered with one word and one liners..

Why does it matter? There's a line drawn in terms of how much the world should know about a politicians life.

What next, a list of bowel movements to make sure hes regular?

Bill Clinton comes to mind in terms of marriage issues. I loved Clinton and even then what happens under the table or behind closed doors is none of our business.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 04:45 AM by AndrewTB

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jam321
McCain played the questions to his advantage .

Ah, yes. Just what we need for a president... A "player" who "takes advantage" to "win"...

I'd actually rather have an honest, intelligent thinker, myself.

A leader that does not use advantages given to him is a poor leader. One must find balance. I dont care how smart you are, smartness does not prepare you for the real world.

There's factors such a street smarts, brains and brawn all play a factor, unfortunately Obama only has one of those.

Hate to break it to you, but what you "rather have" in terms of honesty does not exist in politics and never will.

[edit on 8/18/2008 by AndrewTB]

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 08:58 AM by marg6043

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

That is a lot of Koo laid you have been indulging yourself with lately, neither candidate is for the people anymore.

for some reason McCain just kiss enough voters butts to make them feel wanted and special just like you.

Poor Obama just wanting to fight the masters until the end because he is still a young pony with a lot of potential to be exploited by the masters.

But eventually he will follow or will stay behind.

Still if you believe what comes out of the mouths of Republicans leadership now a days I guess you really are in denial.

Easy off on the koolaid.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:05 AM by walkinghomer

Originally posted by AndrewTB

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jam321
McCain played the questions to his advantage .

Ah, yes. Just what we need for a president... A "player" who "takes advantage" to "win"...

I'd actually rather have an honest, intelligent thinker, myself.

A leader that does not use advantages given to him is a poor leader. One must find balance. I dont care how smart you are, smartness does not prepare you for the real world.

There's factors such a street smarts, brains and brawn all play a factor, unfortunately Obama only has one of those.

Hate to break it to you, but what you "rather have" in terms of honesty does not exist in politics and never will.

[edit on 8/18/2008 by AndrewTB]

Funny thing is, if the script was flipped Obama would be in a Heeeeap of trouble. I estimate 3 to 5 threads Ranging from Obama is a liar to Obama Anti-Christ first phase of stealing elections.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:09 AM by grover

reply to post by JustTheFacts

McCain hit the home runs? Hardly. If you were paying any sort of attention its obvious that Obama gave serious, nuanced answers and McCain gave rote index card talking point answers.

If I were one of those evangelicos attending I would have been pissed off at McCain's responses because it was obvious he was only saying what they wanted to hear.

If thats considered hitting a home run... I feel for you bud. Like Obama or not he did not insult his audience's intelligence by giving stock answers but actually gave well measured responses.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:14 AM by marg6043

reply to post by grover

Grover my friend you nailed it with better words that I will ever dream, then at the end remember the word gullible, many have no clue how much they fall for the same political routine every four years, after politicians get their votes and goal they will only answer to the puppeteers.

It seems that at the rate our nation has been sold it will be all from the middle east and China.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:23 AM by grover

reply to post by marg6043

Thanks Marg. I have said repeatedly that I am rather lukewarm to Obama, I liked John Edwards but I would have liked to have seen something like a Richardson/Clarke ticket. That being said however I was impressed with Obama's answers to the people in this church. Like I said they were intelligent and nuanced and he stood his ground on issues such as abortion. McCain sounded like a robot... nothing he said struck me as genuine or even half heartedly felt.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:29 AM by walkinghomer

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by marg6043

Thanks Marg. I have said repeatedly that I am rather lukewarm to Obama, I liked John Edwards but I would have liked to have seen something like a Richardson/Clarke ticket. That being said however I was impressed with Obama's answers to the people in this church. Like I said they were intelligent and nuanced and he stood his ground on issues such as abortion. McCain sounded like a robot... nothing he said struck me as genuine or even half heartedly felt.

You mean you didn't like "We Have to Drill Here and we Have to Drill Now". I mean, Offshore drilling is the key to the energy crisis we have.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:30 AM by buddhasystem

Originally posted by grover
If I were one of those evangelicos attending I would have been pissed off at McCain's responses because it was obvious he was only saying what they wanted to hear.

Exactly! Question is, were these people smart enough to realize that?

I thought McCain was disgusting in this forum, with his carefully pre-fabbed notions of Vietnamese torture and how heroically he handled it. Phew.

The guy doesn't have to offer anything to this country we haven't tasted under the Shrub, which is, in a word, ruinous.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:39 AM by grover

reply to post by walkinghomer

This is not the forum to discuss offshore drilling... however to answer your question... offshore drilling push is a scam of epic proportions. It will take at least a decade before we see a drop of that oil and another decade before it hits its stride. Besides all of that there is the issue of how oil is sold. All of the oil drilled becomes part of an international pool from which it is sold and if America does not have the money to buy more than it is that oil could be drilled on the White House lawn and it wouldn't benefit Americans one greasy drop.

So McCain's citing of it is just another shell game but all that is moot since drilling will start... that much is obvious.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 09:41 AM by theblunttruth

I've been watching this campaign with close scrutiny, i shall not be voting as i reside in the UK. I must honestly say though, as an "outsider" this is the first time for a loong while that you actually have 2 genuinely strong candidates to chose from. This forum was extremely interesting and i found the questions (and answers for that matter), intelligent, personal and extremely thought provoking.

Obama came across composed, articulate, well informed and just generally an intelligent candidate comfortable in the spotlight and with debate. BUT i would say Mccain had the edge.

McCain has impressed me time and time again, he has this aura of conviction and experience that is vital for a president. Not only this but he comes across as a genuine person (as far as politicians go). Obama sometimes sounds like he's reading from a book or merely reciting his advisors. Sometimes i feel Obama simplifies by principle or history instead of disecting the argument.

This is not to say i felt Obama performed badly, quite the contrary, he did well and is an exemplary candidate, i just feel McCain had that extra.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by theblunttruth]

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 10:02 AM by kettlebellysmith

Saw the forum and though both candidates did well, but there is no doubt that John McCain was the winner. McCain stood up to the issues, and defended his stand. McCain has been in situations that Obama will never be in.
McCain has been a warrior, a POW who demonstrated what honor and heroism really is, and he knows how the political system works. And, in an unscripted situation, McCain didn't stumble, stutter or say "uh" a dozen time before he answered the questions. He is a man who KNOWS where he stands and what he believes in.
I was really amazed the next day that even Obama's supporters were praising McCain, even though they were trying to spin their candidates in his favor.
While I would rather see an independent, or a libratarian in the mix, these are the choices we have.
I would rather have someone who knows the the price of freedom. Especially in a day when the Russian Bear is awakening from a long hibernation and seems to be hungry and irritable.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't make a slave of free man. The most you can do is kill him
robert A Heinlein

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 10:08 AM by buddhasystem

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
I would rather have someone who knows the the price of freedom.

Oh, you mean the genocidal campaign of Henry Kissinger in Indochina?

en.wikipedia.org...

On May 27, the New York Times published one of the most incredible sentences I’ve ever seen. They ran an article about the Nixon-Kissinger interchanges. Kissinger fought very hard through the courts to try to prevent it, but the courts permitted it. You read through it, and you see the following statement embedded in it. Nixon at one point informs Kissinger, his right-hand Eichmann, that he wanted bombing of Cambodia. And Kissinger loyally transmits the order to the Pentagon to carry out "a massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. Anything that flies on anything that moves."

[edit on 18-8-2008 by buddhasystem]

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 10:27 AM by AndrewTB

Originally posted by walkinghomer

Originally posted by AndrewTB

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jam321
McCain played the questions to his advantage .

Ah, yes. Just what we need for a president... A "player" who "takes advantage" to "win"...

I'd actually rather have an honest, intelligent thinker, myself.

A leader that does not use advantages given to him is a poor leader. One must find balance. I dont care how smart you are, smartness does not prepare you for the real world.

There's factors such a street smarts, brains and brawn all play a factor, unfortunately Obama only has one of those.

Hate to break it to you, but what you "rather have" in terms of honesty does not exist in politics and never will.

[edit on 8/18/2008 by AndrewTB]

Funny thing is, if the script was flipped Obama would be in a Heeeeap of trouble. I estimate 3 to 5 threads Ranging from Obama is a liar to Obama Anti-Christ first phase of stealing elections.

It would be flipped but nowhere near the response would be achieved. Obama is the all mighty messiah and he whom is a smooth talker does no wrong onto man.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 11:57 AM by walkinghomer

While I was watching this discussion between Pastor Rick Warren and John Mccain I noticed Mccain said something that stood out to me. It caught my attention and I thought wow, how did he know about that. The question was

Transcript

Q OKAY. WE DON'T HAVE TO GO LONGER ON THAT ONE. DEFINE MARRIAGE.

A UNION -- A UNION BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN, BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, THAT'S MY DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE. ARE WE GOING TO GET BACK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF SUPREME COURT JUSTICES.

At that point I don't remember Pastor Warren Discussing Supreme Court Justices with Mccain. This was a question for later and a question that was asked of Obama. Maybe it was just me but I found that Strange that Mccain wants to talk about supreme Court Justices before it was even brought up.

reply posted on 18-8-2008 @ 12:02 PM by iamcamouflage

reply to post by AndrewTB